Survivor communities outside the known world

[Lovely]

Swedish and Finnish coast are also littered by tiny isles with semi-isolated communities...
Plus Finland has tons of lakes and islands in them...
And more about Finland:Every apartment building here is has small blast/fallout shelter with supplies in them.
(Norway seems to also have shelters everyehere)And cities have massive public shelters everywhere with more supplies.
And Finland also has well equiped and trained army...

Unfortunately, Army and shelters can help only if people will be ready.

How I understand the setting of SSSS, the main problem here was not a Rash monsters but the hidden incubation period. Otherwise exist no reasonable reasons why airborne infection destroyed the civilization. How we can see in the comix the quarantine and isolation are sufficient to protection from infection itself. More, a gas mask allow you to be a healthy after a contact with infected people or Rash monsters. Consequently, if the Rash hadn't a hidden incubation period, we seen in few times more people then SSSS worls really have.

Actually, the First World was turned into a no man land only because the Europe and USA didn't has a time for effective quarantine measures. I'm sure what every time when people in Europe tried to separate infected people from healthy people and build isolated city every time Rach was already inside. And if they has a any safety place they have almost no chance to keep the quarantine. I'm sure what Europe was full of Trolls, Giants and small monsters - infected rats and mouses.

Of course, Europe has lots of survivors in first ten years . In EU we have 750 millions people now and if 7% was immune like in Ireland - 750 000 000*0.05=37 500 000 millions of immune people. Where is all that people? Looks like most part from them is a die. Europe is a pretty small place with a high population density. Therefore, the most common cause of death in Europe from 0 to 10 years should be a latent infection of community members, infected rat and small monsters, Trolls and only after that - famine. People in Europe just haven't been able to stabilize the situation when they has a muzzle of trolls everywhere. Just recall the Danish attempt to take own lands back. The Nordic countries have a lower population density, more colder climate and lots of places with low number of places where immune people can scavenge but...

But Nordic countries is too close to Europe and when Rash has in a big towns - it was impossible to stop the Rash. Every big savety zone withnout any infected people was in great danger because of the trolls. I'm sure what European and Nordic military tries to fight against Trolls, but most part of soldiers was infected too and they no areas for retreat.

I'm sure what something like that we seen in European Part of Russia. Of course Russian military in Moscow and Saint-Petersburg does own work as well as Finnish military do own work in Helsinki but they has same conditions with every European military. Infected people everywhere, Rash monsters everywhere, and any quarantine zone - already infected. They just has no time to stop all ways, and if it's happend by lucky case - Trolls fix that minor problem. For example, few military bases in European part of Russia could save some civilian and military people, but they were surrounded by trolls and had no chance to save quarantine for long. Murphy's Law together with the lack of time was a reason why Rash was too effective. I'm sure what exist a thousands of ways to death.

Nevertheless, when people are ready, like 90 years later in Nordic countries, it's possible to live among the Silent World. And really - all survived groups of a people should have a very same story.

What is the main idea of any stories of survival? It's the Time.

Then more Time people have when Rash come for them then more survivors we will see. Siberian part of Russia just has more time than Europe and Nordic countries, because they Siberia is a damned big and Rash can't walk faster then people or animals. Only few hours of advantage allow block the main roads and airfields. In Siberia lives near 40 million of people. 3/4 from them live near Trans Siberian railroad and will be infected wery fast - looks like they have same chance like a Nordic people, only one chance from 500 as in Finland. That life\death rate working for all Nordic countries and should be same for Siberia or Ural just because people have a place outside of a troll-areas.

30.000.000/500=60.000 Russian survivors near Trans-Siberian Railroad. Nordic world outside the Ireland have only 50.000. Looks possible.

Central parts of Siberia and Northern parts of Siberia together with a Russian Far-East have near 17.000.000 people. Take out part from Russian-Chinese Border and from very lovely towns. We left a 8.000.000 people. 7% of immune people - immune 560.000 Russians and I see no trolls hordes in that forgotten lands of Russia. Nordic survivability rate - 16 000 people.

So, minimum possible number of a Russian survivors without time benefits is a 66.000. And it's already close to Nordic countries. Next step - near 400.000 Russians, if we take the Iceland rate with 2/3 of survivors for immune people only. Same number f we recall the idea about safety zone like Ireland on Sakhalin and Kamchatka, because that parts of Russia have 800.000 citizen in common and we use a Iceland scenario for that parts of Russia.

I think what that number can show the numbers of survivors if everything will be as bad as it was in Nordic countries. But Russian people in that part of Russia have a huge advantage over Nordic countries - the Time.

So, how many people from 8 millions can survive if they will be have a few hours or few days of advantage over Rash and the Russian military who actually can do that work if will be have the Time?  Of course, it's very-very hypothetical calculates.

Let's face it - military idiocy is an almost universal constant.

Show me a ideal people or people who are better prepared for disaster than the military. Of course, military are people too and also make mistakes, but civilian people usually don't have any military trainings and tend to be disorganized more then military people. It's well shown in the comix on example of the main characters.

Those mistakes for the British military largely come from the government.  Unfortunately the British military does not have anything in the realm of sufficient funding to decide to just build a huge aircraft carrier like that.  It was a government decision that much of the military considered a waste of time and resources.

British military is a top-10 military, really. And UK also have a Royal Navy in ocean and lots of Submarins. I'm sure what they can survive and save some people too. UK irself unforlynelly don't have any chance.

[Oskutin]

60-100K sounds reasonable.

[Laowai]

The Nordic countries minus Iceland each had 5-5.5 million people in year 0 and 10-20 thousand in year 90. Even ignoring the probable population regrowth after establishing the first stable post-Rash settlements, that's a 99.7% mortality - from the Rash and the subsequent monsters. The pre-Rash immunity rate has been estimated to .1-.15% by several fans.

Of course, we have no information whatsoever about what pre-Rash immunity rates outside the Nordic countries might have been, given that both survival factors appreciated in the comic itself (genetics and Old Gods) could vary a lot between ethnicities ...

I'm just basing my theories on my academic background in biological anthropology. I don't know anything about immunology though, so for all I know there could be a million different ways people can be immune which isn't genetically transferred. And yeah, I hadn't even begun to go into gene pools and standard deviation. Even if we can assume the world population has the equilibrium I mentioned earlier, it would be bloody useless if that gene was only found in people of east and south east Asian decent, because lets face it, that region is drowning in trolls.

And I have to be honest, I completely forgot about the old gods protecting certain populations. But that's totally right and totally incalculable. (*science brain implodes)

All my genetics talks aside, I still hold fast to my theory of the alps being a likely place for surviving community. The alps are cold, have a relatively small population, and are full of places that are easily defensible. For instance, there's a town in I think the Swiss alps which is in a small valley and is surrounded by steep mountains on two side and two lakes on the other sides. Minna has hinted before that water is very important, so assuming water = NOPE, then this town, with only one thin road on each side of the lake along the mountain side, would be easy to defend from first infected, then trolls.

[FinnishViking]

I'm just basing my theories on my academic background in biological anthropology. I don't know anything about immunology though, so for all I know there could be a million different ways people can be immune which isn't genetically transferred. And yeah, I hadn't even begun to go into gene pools and standard deviation. Even if we can assume the world population has the equilibrium I mentioned earlier, it would be bloody useless if that gene was only found in people of east and south east Asian decent, because lets face it, that region is drowning in trolls.

And I have to be honest, I completely forgot about the old gods protecting certain populations. But that's totally right and totally incalculable. (*science brain implodes)

All my genetics talks aside, I still hold fast to my theory of the alps being a likely place for surviving community. The alps are cold, have a relatively small population, and are full of places that are easily defensible. For instance, there's a town in I think the Swiss alps which is in a small valley and is surrounded by steep mountains on two side and two lakes on the other sides. Minna has hinted before that water is very important, so assuming water = NOPE, then this town, with only one thin road on each side of the lake along the mountain side, would be easy to defend from first infected, then trolls.

Hmm well that does sound good, but one important thing would be; Do they have the necessary suplies to survive the first few years and are the lands close by easily accesible and something that could be turned to farms.

I think this might be the biggest problem with many settlements. The simple fact that places that are easily defendable are more often than not also in places that don't support large scale farming/fields.

[Koeshi]

I think there is a decent cattle/dairy industry in alpine areas.  Crop fields on the other hand are an entirely different matter.

[JoB]

I think there is a decent cattle/dairy industry in alpine areas.  Crop fields on the other hand are an entirely different matter.

The traditional Almwirtschaft includes both livestock (grazing on the high altitude Almen/Alpen in summer and passing the winter in stables down in the valley, feeding off hay that the farmer collected in the summer as well) and crops. Both require availability of fields/pastures, of course, which the most inaccessible parts of the Alps might not provide.

[Laowai]

Hmm well that does sound good, but one important thing would be; Do they have the necessary suplies to survive the first few years and are the lands close by easily accesible and something that could be turned to farms.

I think this might be the biggest problem with many settlements. The simple fact that places that are easily defendable are more often than not also in places that don't support large scale farming/fields.

The alps have been inhabited for thousands of years. Crops such as wheat and rye can be grown there, and baking bread has historically been very important to Alpine settlements.

Exactly like JoB said, cows graze in the summer and shack up in the winter. It's no different to how any other cold country raises cattle. There also used to be lots of sheep, but they lost out in favor to cows. But we know the Alps can support sheep herds, and I think likely it wouldn't be hard to raise goats in the Alps as well.

The one thing I don't know is how much land one cow would need without worrying about overgrazing. But the Alps has such an immense connotation with cheese making, that I can't imagine it's too hard to raise cattle. 

[BrainBlow]

Really? Sounds very strange, because Russian military and incompetence is two opposite words. Probably you confuse the Russian military and Chechens terrorists in the Beslan so I will explain this misunderstanding specially for you. Terrorists were so blatant incompetence what accidentally detonate own bomb and shockedspetsnaz start unprepared assault of school. Fortunately, the terrorists couldn't detonate a second bomb, probably because they didn't knew how to make a bombs, nonetheless terrorists started shoot at children. Spetznaz acted very quickly and evacuate the children directly in combat. Often they had to sacrifice himself to save the kids from fragmentation grenades or ricochets. Unfortunately, they could not save everyone. Of course, some incompetent people started screaming that drunken Russian broke into the school and began to kill everybody, but I always thought that sounds so absurdly and no one would believe it.

I'm sure what now you see the difference between a heroically Russian soldiers and incompetence terrorists who can detonate own bomd only accidentally. I'm amazed, as you might think what it's a spetznaz start to assault a school with a kids. I hope you never make such a mistake again. Perhaps the reason for that sadly misconceptions from you is the language barrier only. If you want I can help you learn the Russian language, maybe I will help you to improve your knowledge about Russia.

Yeah, no.
The military's handling of the situation was utterly incompetent.
It's pretty clear by now that your grandiose ideas of a superhuman, psychic Russian military comes from some nationalistic fervor, not any reality grounded rationale.
And don't condescend me as if I cannot do my own research.
But Russian media has been on a highly revisionist streak in recent years, so it hardly surprises me.

I think what I see here very sad example of poor level of knowledge not only about Russia, but also about the China. Of course, China have a third military in the world, but mainly because that military is a very-very big. Their weapons are replicas of Russian designs or they use imported Russian arms. Perhaps you are decided that it is Russia used Chinese weapons - so, it's a mistake.

I never said anything of the sort, nor does it matter that the Chinese use some weaponry similar to Russia's. At the end of the day, the Chinese military is both bigger and better.

I'm so sorry, I don't answer the rest of your post because I already clarified and confirmed my idea. Maybe are you tired and missed some my posts? It looks so. I think what you should follow the discussion more closely.

You dismissed me with some grandiose speech about how heroic the Russian military, and how Russia is better than China "because reasons".

[Eich]

Yeah, no.
The military's handling of the situation was utterly incompetent.
It's pretty clear by now that your grandiose ideas of a superhuman, psychic Russian military comes from some nationalistic fervor, not any reality grounded rationale.
And don't condescend me as if I cannot do my own research.
But Russian media has been on a highly revisionist streak in recent years, so it hardly surprises me.
I never said anything of the sort, nor does it matter that the Chinese use some weaponry similar to Russia's. At the end of the day, the Chinese military is both bigger and better.

You dismissed me with some grandiose speech about how heroic the Russian military, and how Russia is better than China "because reasons".

Chill.  This is the second post of yours in a week that someone's reported to me, and the last one was rather like this as well. 
If someone's bothering you, you can just let it be.  Either way, this argument needs to stop, or take a nicer turn.

[BarbaryLion22]

Oceania
—Possibly Tasmania and southern New Zealand.
—Most micronesian and polynesian islands.

For Hawai'i at least, I think only Ni'ihau and maybe Kaua'i would survive. (Maybe Hawai'i? 50-50 on that.) O'ahu has an extremely-high population density, so even if the borders were shut, the infrastructure would break down very quickly. Whales and dolphins frequent the channels between the inner islands (Moloka'i, Lana'i, etc...), so they would most likely get infected the first time someone decides to cross the channel. Hawai'i (The Big Island), I think would either have a hard time with the amount of mammals found on the islands, or water. There is very little potable water on Hawai'i. All of the streams have leptospirosis from the cattle, and the aquifer is small and located deep beneath a layer of blue rock (a type of dense basalt).
There was another comment, which seems to have disappeared, about needing Iron to make slashing weapons. This is not necessarily true. A leiomano can be used for slashing and clubbing.

[Koeshi]

@BrainBlow, I think you are confusing the Russian military with the Russian bureaucracy.  While those that give them the orders may be renowned for corruption and incompetence the professional soldiers (not the conscripts) are in general very well trained.  Also, like Eich said, you need to chill the attitude, it really does not help.

The traditional Almwirtschaft includes both livestock (grazing on the high altitude Almen/Alpen in summer and passing the winter in stables down in the valley, feeding off hay that the farmer collected in the summer as well) and crops. Both require availability of fields/pastures, of course, which the most inaccessible parts of the Alps might not provide.

Well I'll take your word for it as my Deutsch is offensive at best.  Though if you were to focus more on the sheep and goats rather than cattle it would open up more land due to the hardiness of the animals.  A logical choice to make in the situation in question.

[Sunflower]

Wow, you sound familiar with Hawaii!    Are you from there?  I lived there as a child in the 1970s (when my father was with CINCPATFLT) and still remember it fondly. 

I think Ni'ihau is a good prospect for avoiding the Rash, since it's practically quarantined anyway as a private preserve for Native Hawaiian people.  (Assuming they have the weapons to stave off desperate refugees/raiders.)  Long-term survival, including food and medicine... I don't know enough to say.  If they do survive, I'm sure Hawaiian magic practices would be revived.

Molokai, Lanai, and Kauai get enough tourism that they probably wouldn't avoid the Rash.  But if we assume the Rash quickly burns through the population, wiping out a lot of the non-Immune without monsters killing all the Immune (which is presumably how most Scandinavians outside of Iceland survived), they might make a go of it. 

Kalaupapa Peninsula on Molokai (the former leper colony) is nicely isolated by geography.  Although it probably doesn't have enough food production capacity to be self-sufficient, it could become either a safe haven for the non-Immune or a quarantine station.

Maui?  I don't know if its population is concentrated enough to be dangerous.  (Sadly, my former home on Oahu is probably doomed.)  If not, there might be enough farmland and water to keep survivors alive.

For Hawai'i at least, I think only Ni'ihau and maybe Kaua'i would survive. (Maybe Hawai'i? 50-50 on that.) O'ahu has an extremely-high population density, so even if the borders were shut, the infrastructure would break down very quickly.

Whales and dolphins frequent the channels between the inner islands (Moloka'i, Lana'i, etc...), so they would most likely get infected the first time someone decides to cross the channel.

Hawai'i (The Big Island), I think would either have a hard time with the amount of mammals found on the islands, or water. There is very little potable water on Hawai'i. All of the streams have leptospirosis from the cattle, and the aquifer is small and located deep beneath a layer of blue rock (a type of dense basalt).

[FinnishViking]

The alps have been inhabited for thousands of years. Crops such as wheat and rye can be grown there, and baking bread has historically been very important to Alpine settlements.

Exactly like JoB said, cows graze in the summer and shack up in the winter. It's no different to how any other cold country raises cattle. There also used to be lots of sheep, but they lost out in favor to cows. But we know the Alps can support sheep herds, and I think likely it wouldn't be hard to raise goats in the Alps as well.

The one thing I don't know is how much land one cow would need without worrying about overgrazing. But the Alps has such an immense connotation with cheese making, that I can't imagine it's too hard to raise cattle.

Hmm true that and i will have to add that i have in no way any expertice in the area so my ideas are going off just speculation here.

The thing with that is in Finland seemingly they don't keep any lifestock since woulnd't be a very risky bussines to practice? One cow infected and the whole herd might turn in to a pack of beasts rampaging near settlements or even worse morph to a giant if that is possible. Especially if the cows would be allowed to be free since that way guranteeing them would be quite the nightmare.

Alps inherintly do have the advantage of being isolated, but that could be a curse as well since i don't think they could replace any equipment easily. The best grace for the nordics so far in my opinion has been the fact that Iceland is around with most of its infastructure more or less intact enabling them to produce things the other countries with their small comminities can't.

Also even without the Icelanders the other countries have resources and salvage in areas near them; Troll infested yes, but still in their reach since for example in Finland any salvaged material could be transported through the rivers where seemingly a lot of the settlements alive still reside. In Alps i think the distances and the terrain make. Getting stuff from point A to point B seemingly would be a lot harder, but you guys should correct me on that.

Ehh bit of tangent that was...

[Laowai]

Hmm true that and i will have to add that i have in no way any expertice in the area so my ideas are going off just speculation here.

The thing with that is in Finland seemingly they don't keep any lifestock since woulnd't be a very risky bussines to practice? One cow infected and the whole herd might turn in to a pack of beasts rampaging near settlements or even worse morph to a giant if that is possible. Especially if the cows would be allowed to be free since that way guranteeing them would be quite the nightmare.

Alps inherintly do have the advantage of being isolated, but that could be a curse as well since i don't think they could replace any equipment easily. The best grace for the nordics so far in my opinion has been the fact that Iceland is around with most of its infastructure more or less intact enabling them to produce things the other countries with their small comminities can't.

Also even without the Icelanders the other countries have resources and salvage in areas near them; Troll infested yes, but still in their reach since for example in Finland any salvaged material could be transported through the rivers where seemingly a lot of the settlements alive still reside. In Alps i think the distances and the terrain make. Getting stuff from point A to point B seemingly would be a lot harder, but you guys should correct me on that.

Ehh bit of tangent that was...

The Fins though have the highest immunity rate specifically because they have the least defenses. Hopefully that trend would also continue in livestock, so that an infected cow would only kill off a portion of the herd that isn't immune. Also, hopefully, shepherds would be able to kill any infected livestock before they turn into trolls.

I think anywhere "mainland" would automatically have to reduce themselves to much simpler living standards. Some salvage can be made from cars, homes, etc. But I think ultimately mainland survivors would have to revert back hundreds if not thousands of years. Actually, I think almost all possible surviving communities would have to revert. The geography of Iceland is a huge bonus for Scandinavia.

I think if transportation were ever possible, doing so in winter with sleds and snowshoes would work well.

Another thought I had is whether or not one could trap or snare trolls. Could this be a way to cleanse areas that can't be burned down as easily?

[JoB]

The Fins though have the highest immunity rate specifically because they have the least defenses.

Non sequitur, I'm afraid. First and foremost, they are dispersed and many of them have a good chance of never running into any grosslings in the first place. Right after the initial onslaught, I'ld guess that more densely populated areas would have had higher immunity rates (and considerably lower survival rates).

The later, ongoing higher selective pressure in Finland would lead to their immunity rate rising and eventually surpassing others' if said others had left theirs to develop by chance (and if the genetic trait of immunity is prone to thinning out in the first place), but what we're shown in the comic is that the post-Rash societies are very aware of their respective immunity and the need to maintain, if not raise, it. Also, Tuuri reports that Saimaa is a place with largely non-immune settlements (that occasionally go poof), which seems to fall below Emil's standards.