Poll

What do you think the state of things is beyond Scandinavia?

More of the Silent World: Trolls, beasts and giants everywhere
7 (16.7%)
A few groups of humans, but mostly wilderness
14 (33.3%)
USA and other superpowers are relatively intact
0 (0%)
Scorched Earth: nothing, not even grosslings, is alive
0 (0%)
Plenty of places like Scandinavia, but isolated
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Voting closed: July 03, 2015, 03:28:37 PM

Author Topic: Survivor communities outside the known world  (Read 259116 times)

Solokov

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #420 on: February 21, 2015, 03:46:05 PM »


Chinese military is both bigger and better.

side-note I have no idea where this conversation came from but while I will agree that China's military is Bigger than most others there's not much publicly available information about how well trained the plac regulars are and they are largely untested when it comes to actual combat.


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DeltaV11.2

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #421 on: February 23, 2015, 12:43:45 AM »
Just to try and pitch into the Russia argument in a more constructive way. Russia ran(as the USSR) probably the world's largest biological warfare organization for decades. Even today they're one of the big infectious disease centers in the world, them and the CDC are probably the facilites that would recognize just how serious the Rash Illness was. Given that the USSR definitely developed agents with a similar level of incubation period and lethality(weaponized smallpox... let that one simmer for awhile), and planned for their use against the USA, it wouldn't strain belief that they have civil defense plans for a pandemic with the Rash Illness' properties(90%+ lethality, extreme transmissibility via both human and animal vectors, 10-12 day incubation period).

I don't think that they could save more than the isolated portions of Russia- it'd be unlikely for them to identify the need to lock down the country fast enough- but locking down domestic travel and instituting quarantines at many levels would be quite likely to save outlying areas(Sakhalin, Kamchatka as mentioned). Military response and effectiveness probably wouldn't be as high as Lovely might hope, but the greater distance between bases and population centers will probably make infection of the military much slower(high command will be decimated, but operational command is isolated enough they could avoid infection with proper procedures).

Koeshi

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #422 on: February 23, 2015, 04:33:25 AM »
While that was true during the Cold War, VECTOR collapsed along with the USSR.  While it does still exist today, it is a shadow of its former self with much of its staff (and the majority of weaponised smallpox) having disappeared during the 90s.  While it may still be a force to be reckoned with, they are no longer capable of what they once were.

cynicalos

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #423 on: February 25, 2015, 10:30:38 PM »
I think that Russia's survivability (and I'm pretty confident at least portions of society could find themselves sort of intact there) would be a lot more because of the weather and geography rather than singular organizations. Also, there is a disgusting amount of surplus military supplies, including vehicles.

The new center would probably be towards the East - Siberia (with oil and other resources) and maybe the Urals would be hubs. If they have magic, I think it would probably be based on a new synthesis of worship of great leaders (Lenin, Stalin, Putin(?), various Tsars), and maybe worship of the land itself. They might stay Orthodox, but I don't think there's very much attachment to the old Slavic faith.

I could be very wrong, of course, but I think that it is plausible and that it would be fun to see, especially in comic or fanart.

The image of a few excited Russians pursuing a giant or group of trolls across the steppe in a platoon of old military surplus T34-85's is too heartwarming to give up.

Kookieking

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #424 on: February 28, 2015, 05:20:57 PM »
I think that what a lot of people are forgetting is that more population is good AND bad, and less population too. More population could mean more deaths and trolls, with no real way to deal. Although higher populations also mean more immune, and weaponry would be less scare for the survivors. Also more people can mean better medical treatments (in sense of things like infections and flu, and even hygiene). Death toll is a curse and a gift in a high population area. In low population areas there tends to be a more rural landscape, more survivalists, and even, wait for it, DOOMSDAY PREPPERS. jk. but really, they, since they're spread apart, won't have to worry about the outbreak as much...but, they also will have to deal without imported goods and more advanced tech. Trolls also would be a problem, less/smaller organized, non-immune people who don't quite have the resources to fight will DIE. Death tolls in this area are low, but bad.

Unlos

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #425 on: March 03, 2015, 03:53:45 PM »
Saw this in the news today, and figured it deserved a posting here:  cats outnumber humans on Aoshima Island in Japan. An (almost) Island so blessed with felines, in Japan which closed it's borders so early, deserves to be a surviving community, right?

BrainBlow

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #426 on: March 04, 2015, 07:05:16 PM »
"deserving" doesn't really have much to do with it.
The island still needs a foundation to live on, which I am not able to comment on due to my lack of knowledge about its geography and economy.
Also worth noting that cats are pests, just as if not more destructive than rat infestations when there's too many of them in one area.


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Koeshi

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #427 on: March 05, 2015, 04:33:24 AM »
Pests they may be, but they are meatier pests than rats.  Just think of them as emergency rations rather than a problem.

Laowai

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #428 on: March 06, 2015, 03:33:20 PM »
I think a lot of this depends on how quickly the virus spreads. We saw in the prologue that people with the rash were still highly mobile and capable of spreading the rash, but then in the death room in Copenhagen it looked like many people were bedridden and therefore non-mobile. I think the time period between these two stages is important for community survival because it determines how much defenses you need and for how long. Does anyone have any clues as to when immobility happens?

JoB

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #429 on: March 06, 2015, 03:47:40 PM »
I think a lot of this depends on how quickly the virus spreads. We saw in the prologue that people with the rash were still highly mobile and capable of spreading the rash, but then in the death room in Copenhagen it looked like many people were bedridden and therefore non-mobile. I think the time period between these two stages is important for community survival because it determines how much defenses you need and for how long. Does anyone have any clues as to when immobility happens?
Hilde Rasmussen went from infection to first visible symptoms (a timeframe that the standard two weeks of quarantine should match), then "a week, possibly two" to the 15-Oct photo, and turned positively bedridden somewhere between that and 23-Oct.

The time from infection to infectiousness is still unknown, but everyone seems convinced that people turn infectious before they show any symptoms (though I don't remember that being stated officially, offhand).
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Unlos

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #430 on: March 07, 2015, 04:44:57 AM »
"deserving" doesn't really have much to do with it.
The island still needs a foundation to live on, which I am not able to comment on due to my lack of knowledge about its geography and economy.
Also worth noting that cats are pests, just as if not more destructive than rat infestations when there's too many of them in one area.
Strictly speaking, you're right of course.

KMK

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #431 on: March 07, 2015, 11:55:33 AM »
Strictly speaking, you're right of course.

But suddenly you are fending off sea mammal trolls and the masses of cats swarm them like ants. Some live some die in the battles. The Grade A type having perhaps a slight advantage to the C cats on survivability in battle. Now they are not pest but saviors and the numbers are diminished so that there are more resources to go around.

Sunflower

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #432 on: March 10, 2015, 01:43:18 AM »
From the 5,000-odd posts to p. 277:

quindraco
There are many other places on Earth with enough cold to have resisted the zombies, including Siberia, Canada, and, I think notably, Ulan Bator in Mongolia. I wonder how many other cultures are still functioning - all it would really take would be for all of your radios to break, and you'd have no way of letting other survivors know you'd made it, since the intervening territory would be inimical to all travel.

Hrolfr 
It's not just cold, or just water you need.

A. A lot of luck. ( If you can choose between being smart or lucky, choose lucky.)
B. Year 0 a population that was in sufficient agreement to institute a very no-nonsense & potentially aggressively murderous embargo on the rest of the world. Despite it seeming wildly paranoid by Year 0 standards.
C. A population that, by luck, managed to not have that much contact with the rest of the world during the infectious phase before it sealed itself off.
D. An area that population was living that had the _right_ people, people with the knowledge on how to gear-down civilization a couple of notches within months, farmland & supplies to make it to the next year, seeds, etc... And the ability to make themselves heard and coerce/strongly suggest that everyone follow along.
E. Enough firepower to enforce that embargo against some hugely desperate people with little to lose.
F. Enough societal discipline and public spiritedness that the first couple of years brutal rationing and other desperate and draconian public health measures could continue to be enforced despite ( even in the enclaves) huge losses of people.
G. cold weather, like water freezing for a couple of months a year.
H. Water "moats" to slow the progress of infected creatures. (Iceland, Bornholm.)
I Away from large population centers.
J. Enough medical people that took VERY harsh decisions very early and then kept it up.
K Enough Practical people who... etc...

etc...

Surviving with enough people to have technological civilization was a very, very low probability event.

The first months and year(s) must have been super depressing to listen to on shortwave radio, as human enclave after enclave went silent, presumably overwhelmed by Rash vectors, or starvation, or refugees...trolls & giants, or even simply depression & madness

Occasional morse code from places far in the mountains, swamps and plains: "Is anybody out there...we're surrounded, out of food, it's February, it's cold, we're down to out last rounds... please help? anyone..?"

I and others have speculated there might be some stone-age level; savage humans lurking in parts of the world where some of the above was ok, desperately hanging on in small tribes, hiding from trolls and beasts, avoiding former urban areas. It'd be a crappy life, but at least it would be short.

Not saying there aren't other places, but not many are likely.
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DiscoMonster

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #433 on: March 10, 2015, 04:04:21 AM »
I'm in agreement with Hrolfor and Sunflower. I started a fan fiction set in a village called Eyam, in Britain. Eyam actually did isolate itself when bubonic plague came to the village. I thought it would be fun to have them isolated from the outside world this time. But after surviving the first winter, I realised that they would know that they would have to move from Eyam to survive long-term. That was where I stopped writing because I had most of the original people of the village dying on their way to get to Anglesea or The Isle of Man, despite the presence of an army of immune, who had banded together with the residents of Eyam. Some did make it to the Isle of Man and they managed to rid the Island of The Rash and set up a viable community but it was a very grim story.

I also wrote another fanfiction set in Turku. It showed the breakdown of society and the desperation of the immune survivors as they tried to leave the city and make it to one of the larger islands in the Turku archipelago. One of the heroes was a librarian who caught The Rash late, Sigrun had to kill the librarian-turned-troll ninety-five years later. I tried to tell the story from his point of view as he became a troll. Too grim.

Oh and Sigrun, Lalli and Mikkel were raiding the city library and the library of the Swedish speaking university, which are both handily placed close to the river for a quick get away. Maybe I'll tell that one day.

LadyRamkin

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #434 on: March 13, 2015, 03:59:04 PM »
I'm not sure I this place was brought up but how about Acadia National park in Maine USA? One road in, lots of fish and lobster, several surrounding islands to inhabit and or retreat to as well. Also possibly  Grand Manan Island to the north.