General Discussion Thread

[Eich]

I read twilight early in high school, and I liked them because I read the whole thing thinking it was full of humourous derpy sarcasm, I thought it was a rom com basically, but when I saw the movie I was like: "Oh no. It was all literal. I read it wroooooong." X'D

Ack, help my little sis set up her photography stuff and she is soooooooo unorganized. She's worse than ME!! ;___;  there shouldn't be this much exercise involved!

Never read it.  I don't think I'm missing much, honestly.  I'd rather read "The Princess Bride," if I'm going to read something romantic (well, it's got a little bit of everything... mostly humor).

Oh, yeah, didn't you have an exam today?  Do y'all just have one exam per week, or something?  This seems to have been going on for a while.

Photography just reminded me of that whole "Selfie Stick" thing, which, of course, there are people who just a whole bunch of pictures of themselves with that... not that I see anything wrong with it, but it just feels like "That's all you're using it for?" I mean, unless if like say, a newly-wed couple went on a honeymoon and loved the scenery and wanted to take a photo with both of them in it, that makes a bit of sense, since there wouldn't be anyone else around to take it for them. My mom told me about how people just spin around on the ground with those things in hand, and I can't seem to imagine it at the moment.

But I really would love to get one of those in case if I get to travel somewhere, and I would love to take photos to keep as memories.

From what I've seen, people use selfies for social things.  They'll respond to text messages with expressions, or try to make themselves look pretty while trying to hook up with someone.  It's interesting, if... very unusual.  I took one for fun when I got my new phone over the summer, to see what all the fuss was about.  I reared my head backwards to gave myself a few extra chins, and made a funny face.  It gets some pretty good reactions.    The more confusing side... well, my roommate takes them at weird times like waking up from naps, or in the middle of eating food, and sends them off to people. 

General Discussion:  Voting day's tomorrow, over here.  Specifically, voting day for senators and governors, etc. across the country.  A couple of my friends are voting before work.  I filled out an absentee ballot a couple weeks ago at home, but I feel kind of bad because I don't even know who I voted for.  My dad said, "Vote for these people."  I told him I didn't want to, but... well, he's my dad and I respect his wishes.  I don't know anything about politics, so I don't want my input to matter, because at this point voting makes me into one of the "useful idiots."  I don't know who I'd support in an election and I don't care.  I'd rather leave that to the people who know how to do that sort of thing, and it feels wrong to vote without any knowledge.  Now I'm being moody...  Gehh.  /rant  Sorry.

[OrigamiOwl]

Never read it.  I don't think I'm missing much, honestly.  I'd rather read "The Princess Bride," if I'm going to read something romantic (well, it's got a little bit of everything... mostly humor).

Oh, yeah, didn't you have an exam today?  Do y'all just have one exam per week, or something?  This seems to have been going on for a while.
From what I've seen, people use selfies for social things.  They'll respond to text messages with expressions, or try to make themselves look pretty while trying to hook up with someone.  It's interesting, if... very unusual.  I took one for fun when I got my new phone over the summer, to see what all the fuss was about.  I reared my head backwards to gave myself a few extra chins, and made a funny face.  It gets some pretty good reactions.    The more confusing side... well, my roommate takes them at weird times like waking up from naps, or in the middle of eating food, and sends them off to people. 

General Discussion:  Voting day's tomorrow, over here.  Specifically, voting day for senators and governors, etc. across the country.  A couple of my friends are voting before work.  I filled out an absentee ballot a couple weeks ago at home, but I feel kind of bad because I don't even know who I voted for.  My dad said, "Vote for these people."  I told him I didn't want to, but... well, he's my dad and I respect his wishes.  I don't know anything about politics, so I don't want my input to matter, because at this point voting makes me into one of the "useful idiots."  I don't know who I'd support in an election and I don't care.  I'd rather leave that to the people who know how to do that sort of thing, and it feels wrong to vote without any knowledge.  Now I'm being moody...  Gehh.  /rant  Sorry.

Princess Bride is awesome X) "Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya. (Is that his name? It's been years) You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIIIIIIIE."

Nah, college exams start later in the year, but her art class has to set up now. It's currently university exam time- I've got my last one this Monday ;___; it gets confusing and really annoying to organize things because all the education system is out of sync date-wise

Don't feel moody! We had a local election a while ago and my dad always tells me who to vote for, and then tell me to tell him who I voted for: we don't really get on because of and resulting in different political views, so I eloquently tell him to stick it up his jumper and mind his own business like he's legally meant to ;P (resulting in demands for me to leave home etc etc etc if I wasn't so good at housework and ironing his shirts I'd've really been kicked out by now, over something petty -__-) But that's really nice that you get on with your dad so well he sounds awesome and respect-worthy.

Heheeeeh, I haven't taken a selfie ever, and I usually ask people to delete photos of me because I get weird like that sometimes o____o
My little sister is addicted to selfies though. At least 2 every ten minutes! X'P

[StellersJayC]

Heheeeeh, I haven't taken a selfie ever, and I usually ask people to delete photos of me because I get weird like that sometimes o____o
My little sister is addicted to selfies though. At least 2 every ten minutes! X'P

Once again this is my story exactly. You people make explaining things so easy: I just need to quote you!


In other news, my brother has gotten himself addicted to Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. I keep thinking something's happening over at the horse place because of all the screaming.

[Noah O.]

Once again this is my story exactly. You people make explaining things so easy: I just need to quote you!


In other news, my brother has gotten himself addicted to Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. I keep thinking something's happening over at the horse place because of all the screaming.

In slightly related news, I just dug out a video of my friend in 7th grade. He was "dancing" but it was mostly just him flopping around like a dead fish and shrieking. And when I say flopping around like a dead fish, I mean flopping around like a dead fish- it's not every day you find something like that hidden at the bottom of your iPhone's camera roll.

[Eich]

Princess Bride is awesome X) "Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya. (Is that his name? It's been years) You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIIIIIIIE."

Nah, college exams start later in the year, but her art class has to set up now. It's currently university exam time- I've got my last one this Monday ;___; it gets confusing and really annoying to organize things because all the education system is out of sync date-wise

Don't feel moody! We had a local election a while ago and my dad always tells me who to vote for, and then tell me to tell him who I voted for: we don't really get on because of and resulting in different political views, so I eloquently tell him to stick it up his jumper and mind his own business like he's legally meant to ;P (resulting in demands for me to leave home etc etc etc if I wasn't so good at housework and ironing his shirts I'd've really been kicked out by now, over something petty -__-) But that's really nice that you get on with your dad so well he sounds awesome and respect-worthy.

Heheeeeh, I haven't taken a selfie ever, and I usually ask people to delete photos of me because I get weird like that sometimes o____o
My little sister is addicted to selfies though. At least 2 every ten minutes! X'P

We watch that movie at my house at least 8 times a year.  It's great.  (And, yes, that's exactly his name)

I used to have political opinions, but the more I got into politics, the more angry I got about everything.  So, I decided to stop looking into it.  I'd rather have opinions on things I care about and enjoy, and therefore actually know about, like the arts, or engineering.  If we ever vote on who makes the best art or vidya games, I'll be happy to share my views for my country.  Until then, they can spend my taxes however they want; someone more intelligible will deal with it.

I try to show my dad respect because he works really hard and deals with a lot of crap he shouldn't have to.  Small business owners can have it pretty rough over here, especially in the last few years.  Also, I kind of gave him and my mom a really hard time before I was 14-ish, so I try to make it up to them now. 

Oh, teenagers and their pop culture.  How you... confuse meh.

Once again this is my story exactly. You people make explaining things so easy: I just need to quote you!


In other news, my brother has gotten himself addicted to Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. I keep thinking something's happening over at the horse place because of all the screaming.

It's a good thing to be addicted to.  Encourage him.

Edit:  Finally found out why my friend's phone has been weird.  His parents think I'm a bad influence on his study habits.  D____D
That's why this post took like an hour to write.  Phone calls and stuff.

[OrigamiOwl]

We watch that movie at my house at least 8 times a year.  It's great.  (And, yes, that's exactly his name)

I used to have political opinions, but the more I got into politics, the more angry I got about everything.  So, I decided to stop looking into it.  I'd rather have opinions on things I care about and enjoy, and therefore actually know about, like the arts, or engineering.  If we ever vote on who makes the best art or vidya games, I'll be happy to share my views for my country.  Until then, they can spend my taxes however they want; someone more intelligible will deal with it.

I try to show my dad respect because he works really hard and deals with a lot of crap he shouldn't have to.  Small business owners can have it pretty rough over here, especially in the last few years.  Also, I kind of gave him and my mom a really hard time before I was 14-ish, so I try to make it up to them now. 

Oh, teenagers and their pop culture.  How you... confuse meh.
It's a good thing to be addicted to.  Encourage him.

Edit:  Finally found out why my friend's phone has been weird.  His parents think I'm a bad influence on his study habits.  D____D
That's why this post took like an hour to write.  Phone calls and stuff.

I really dislike politics, but 95% of my life depends on it so I might as well have a say, plus voting is compulsory. :/

Hehe oh dear: tiny troublesome Eich O___O as I was very close to the definition of "quiet well-behaved and obedient child" I think that now I'm 20 I'm should be allowed speak up for myself and not take silly orders from a delusional old man -___- I've "been allowed" to go to university, which makes me the first person to get past year 12 in family history. Ergo: yup, I guess that makes me a troublemaker now ;P educated women! What will they think of next?! XD

You? A bad influence?! *stifles horrendous laughter* but you seem like the model student!

[kjeks]

General Discussion:  Voting day's tomorrow, over here.  Specifically, voting day for senators and governors, etc. across the country.  A couple of my friends are voting before work.  I filled out an absentee ballot a couple weeks ago at home, but I feel kind of bad because I don't even know who I voted for.  My dad said, "Vote for these people."  I told him I didn't want to, but... well, he's my dad and I respect his wishes.  I don't know anything about politics, so I don't want my input to matter, because at this point voting makes me into one of the "useful idiots."  I don't know who I'd support in an election and I don't care.  I'd rather leave that to the people who know how to do that sort of thing, and it feels wrong to vote without any knowledge.  Now I'm being moody...  Gehh.  /rant  Sorry.

Once my parents and me went to voting and while my mother and me studied the names my father made his poll. Afterwards we just called out of the cabin because he knows all the guys und could give arguments. I had to vote with them because I was listed as being resident with them but not at my actual flat. Back there I was deeper into local politics and offered advise to my room mates as they where at a complete loss.
Today there was a report on TV covering the engagement of mainly liberal/leftish nuns touring through the US encouriging people to vote and thinkt about it. At the same time they made points against the huge donations lobbyists seem to be giving to the big parties. That was why many conservative christs, basing on the report's statement, are against the nun's actions because they fear that these put their oppinion on other voters.

As I'm an outsider to american politics: Did you see one of those touring groups at some occassion? Also is it true that lobby groups (which tart to be a bigger problem in Germany over the last years) are drawing the strings behind politics?

I dunno, I read the first ten chapters and was like "nope". Also, speaking of doing what everyone else is doing,
have you ever been someplace, just kind of stopped paying attention to what's going on, then everybody else starts clapping, you start clapping because everybody else is, and you have no idea why you're clapping.

I tried hard on the first book and watched all the films (in English) with my room mate. She really liked the story and we agreed that some of the interactions could be usefull rolemodels for youngsters. As I played RPGs like Vampire Masquerade and like ancient Vampire stories I dislike the thought of these guys gliddering in the sun.

[Sunflower]

I've "been allowed" to go to university, which makes me the first person to get past year 12 in family history. Ergo: yup, I guess that makes me a troublemaker now ;P educated women! What will they think of next?! XD

Have your parents seen the statistics about the much higher earning power and employability of university graduates vs. those who don't go to college?  (Or maybe the difference isn't as big in Australia?)  Or are you an Apple Heiress and your parents will offer your hand in marriage to whoever brings them the Golden Apples of the Hesperides for breeding stock? 

Eh, educated women, always causing trouble.     Cf. strip 3, "The Horror of the New Woman," here:  http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=285

Speaking of causing trouble...

Hehe oh dear: tiny troublesome Eich 

You? A bad influence?! *stifles horrendous laughter* but you seem like the model student!

Yeah, I really can't picture our wise and hard-working Forum Thor being a bad influence.  Maybe he just needs a lot less study time to absorb a subject than his friend.  "Whaddya mean, you're still only on the second page of the calculus problem set?!?  They're easy!"

[Lenny]

Maybe elsewhere in Australia it would be, but here in Tasmania it can be... not that beneficial having a university education. Sometimes it can actually lessen your chances, depending. What's needed most is good connections, more than anything else. 'tis one of the many reasons that more and more youth are leaving the place, heh.

I'm actually of voting age, but as I'm not actually an Australian citizen, I'm not allowed to vote! XD Which is wonderful, while all my friends are complaining about the guys they voted in, I can sit there and feel a tiny bit satisfied because I'm the only one who did not have a hand in bringing in the current government XD (As for the other countries I can vote for... well, every time we receive the voting forms for South Africa, they arrive much too late to do any difference, and though I could vote for the Dutch elections, I don't really have a reason to.)

EDIT: Totally and completely off-topic (if one can get off topic in a general thread), but my post count has crept up and up and up<3 Seriously, above 50 within two months is a lot for me. Consider this the community that I've been most active in, ever.

[OrigamiOwl]

Have your parents seen the statistics about the much higher earning power and employability of university graduates vs. those who don't go to college?  (Or maybe the difference isn't as big in Australia?)  Or are you an Apple Heiress and your parents will offer your hand in marriage to whoever brings them the Golden Apples of the Hesperides for breeding stock? 

Eh, educated women, always causing trouble.     Cf. strip 3, "The Horror of the New Woman," here:  http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=285

Speaking of causing trouble...
Yeah, I really can't picture our wise and hard-working Forum Thor being a bad influence.  Maybe he just needs a lot less study time to absorb a subject than his friend.  "Whaddya mean, you're still only on the second page of the calculus problem set?!?  They're easy!"

Pahahahaha! A defunct heiress who's run away and gone wild ;P a bouncy Idun X'D

It's really just my dad (in his weird phases), and a lot of the middle-aged male relatives who think uni is a folly. Go figure

Maybe elsewhere in Australia it would be, but here in Tasmania it can be... not that beneficial having a university education. Sometimes it can actually lessen your chances, depending. What's needed most is good connections, more than anything else. 'tis one of the many reasons that more and more youth are leaving the place, heh.

I'm actually of voting age, but as I'm not actually an Australian citizen, I'm not allowed to vote! XD Which is wonderful, while all my friends are complaining about the guys they voted in, I can sit there and feel a tiny bit satisfied because I'm the only one who did not have a hand in bringing in the current government XD (As for the other countries I can vote for... well, every time we receive the voting forms for South Africa, they arrive much too late to do any difference, and though I could vote for the Dutch elections, I don't really have a reason to.)

EDIT: Totally and completely off-topic (if one can get off topic in a general thread), but my post count has crept up and up and up<3 Seriously, above 50 within two months is a lot for me. Consider this the community that I've been most active in, ever.

I'm pretty sure I saw a poster at uni saying "only 90% of you will get jobs according to your credentials" or something. Cheerful!
And that sucks about the late postal votes but it's pretty funny about the local ones X)
Glad you feel at home in the fandom! It's my first fandom community too, it's so awesome!

Just finished watching my sisters graduation! 8D it was very long and boring, but when the graduates were getting their certificates, my other lil sis was playing with her band: a song about the unfairness of life U_____U gosh she IS fem-Tuomi, I'm not even kidding. She's cut her hair and curls it JUST THE SAME! O____O

[ThisCat]

I read twilight early in high school, and I liked them because I read the whole thing thinking it was full of humourous derpy sarcasm, I thought it was a rom com basically, but when I saw the movie I was like: "Oh no. It was all literal. I read it wroooooong." X'D

Oh, sheesh. I like to imagine that the movies don't exist. These are not books it's possible to make good movies of. I'm sorry if I'm talking about something no one cares about, but it means a lot to me, okay? Because I really loved the books the first time I read them, even though the fourth one reads like weird fanfiction and the second shouldn't be spoken of and the whole silly love triangle thing. Okay, I loved the first one when I read it. Anyway, the issue is that because of a bunch of hate on the internet from people way outside the target group (young teenage girls, I was fourteen at the time.) I can't even read them anymore because I can only see the bad sides of the books. I practically never read romance, okay? I quit reading Hunger Games when the romace showed up. If I read Twilight then isn't that proof it can't be the worst book ever? It's not like I'm that bad a judge, I liked Pride and Prejudice too. I just can't stand that people think hating on a book I like is a funny joke in any conversation about literature.

Sorry, that turned into some weird rant. I completely understand if you didn't read it at all.

On the topic of voting, I voted first time last year. I usually try to think as little as possible about politicians, but this time I tried to at least figure out who I liked the best. In the end I just voted for the guys who cares the most about the environment though, seeing as that is the most pressing matter of the age.

[kjeks]

I just can't stand that people think hating on a book I like is a funny joke in any conversation about literature.

Sorry, that turned into some weird rant. I completely understand if you didn't read it at all.

I'm fine with that. If somebody dislikes a book or any other peace of art, then it should be put down on real arguments.

On the topic of voting, I voted first time last year. I usually try to think as little as possible about politicians, but this time I tried to at least figure out who I liked the best. In the end I just voted for the guys who cares the most about the environment though, seeing as that is the most pressing matter of the age.

I did the same but hence the party claiming to be environmentalists lost connection to their goals. I'm fine with making compromises on reaching a political goal, but our green party turned into a weird group of people who try to force some ways of living on others without leaving any choices. Also their program does not offer topics for people who don't have a huge amount of money. I don't want them to be leftish socialists, but once in while they should think about making politics which make it afordable to everybody to leave their car at home and take public transport. Not only shouting "shooosh, meat is bad, buy....whatsoeverisveryexpensiveevenifiteasn't meat....". Ohhm, I should stop about that now.

[Raya]

Heh, I've still to watch Battle Royale... I probably will. One day. Still, while I like HG,I do agree with you, the third book is complete crap and I was very very annoyed when I discovered that it will be split into two movies. Who is stupid enough to make the worst book into two movies?!

I'm hoping that this means the movies are going to sort out all the problems the book had. Perhaps we might actually get to see this monumental civil war as the Districts fight for their freedom against the Capitol, as opposed to just seeing Katniss crying in a cupboard. Also I'm *really* hoping they change that absolutely stupid and ridiculous major character death at the end (you know the one). Granted they could actually make it mean something/make sense, but I'd rather they just took it out completely.

Going to guess that Battle Royale is your favourite movie of all time.

One day when you're not 14 young lady.

(<---- watched Battle Royale at age 12'ish)

But BR has a lot of important lessons about the meaning of friendship and being true to yourself! Also kids killing each other left-right and centre, but y'know Probably best Ori avoids the manga though, it's rather...adult compared to the novel and film *cough*

Oh, sheesh. I like to imagine that the movies don't exist. These are not books it's possible to make good movies of. I'm sorry if I'm talking about something no one cares about, but it means a lot to me, okay? Because I really loved the books the first time I read them, even though the fourth one reads like weird fanfiction and the second shouldn't be spoken of and the whole silly love triangle thing. Okay, I loved the first one when I read it. Anyway, the issue is that because of a bunch of hate on the internet from people way outside the target group (young teenage girls, I was fourteen at the time.) I can't even read them anymore because I can only see the bad sides of the books. I practically never read romance, okay? I quit reading Hunger Games when the romace showed up. If I read Twilight then isn't that proof it can't be the worst book ever? It's not like I'm that bad a judge, I liked Pride and Prejudice too. I just can't stand that people think hating on a book I like is a funny joke in any conversation about literature.

Sooo...an older teen agonising over whether to choose between her hunky childhood friend and reliable but boring saviour is bad romance, but a 100+ year old man grooming a highschooler into an emotional abusive relationship is totally okay?

Really my main problem with Twilight is that it's just so badly written. I tried to get through it but gave up because it's just so awful it's practically unreadable. And let's not even get into its rather dubious lessons, such as domestic violence being positive, black people disappearing and women being useless in general. Also if I remember correctly, doesn't the main werewolf end up marrying a 5 year old? Eesh.

If we're talking about vampire books I really recommend Let The Right One in by John Ajvide Lindqvist. It got made into a Swedish film (which is also very good), then 3 years later for God-knows what reason received an American remake (which I haven't seen, so can't judge). It's basically the story of the friendship that grows between a young boy with a horrible life and the child vampire who moves in next door. It's achingly sad and bittersweet, but it's such a good read and you really do feel for both the protagonists. Go check it out!

[ThisCat]

Sooo...an older teen agonising over whether to choose between her hunky childhood friend and reliable but boring saviour is bad romance, but a 100+ year old man grooming a highschooler into an emotional abusive relationship is totally okay?

Really my main problem with Twilight is that it's just so badly written. I tried to get through it but gave up because it's just so awful it's practically unreadable. And let's not even get into its rather dubious lessons, such as domestic violence being positive, black people disappearing and women being useless in general. Also if I remember correctly, doesn't the main werewolf end up marrying a 5 year old? Eesh.

If we're talking about vampire books I really recommend Let The Right One in by John Ajvide Lindqvist. It got made into a Swedish film (which is also very good), then 3 years later for God-knows what reason received an American remake (which I haven't seen, so can't judge). It's basically the story of the friendship that grows between a young boy with a horrible life and the child vampire who moves in next door. It's achingly sad and bittersweet, but it's such a good read and you really do feel for both the protagonists. Go check it out!

(The following rant should not be read if one thinks the discussion about Twilight is irrelevant)

Hunger games is not primarely a romance novel. It has a good plot and story which could easily stand alone with few revisions without the romantic tension and triangles. It is also written for older teens. Twilight is primarely a romance novel. It is written for young teenage girls. Fiction for young teenage girls is very rarely good literature by the standards of other kinds of literature, what I'm trying to say is that compared to some other things it's not that bad.
Now, on to your arguments.
-A 100+ years old man... The age issue is a human thing that exists because humans deteriorate over time. Stories in which one of the parties is immortal make the point irrelevant. Love doesn't actually care about age.
-Grooming into an emotionally abusive relationship... Wow, the emotions thing. I think you're talking about the second book here. That's not actually an abusive relationship, it's him trying to protect her and not realizing how much it hurts her. I know it sounds tacky, again: young, teenage girls' literature. There is no ill will in the relationship. Any "emotional abuse" is built on misunderstandings. Once they both decide to be together it's just a good relationship built on mutual love.
-Badly written... Young. Teenage. Girls. No, it's not high literature. Very few pure romance novels are.
-Domestic violence being positive... Not entirely sure where you got this from.
-Black people dissappearing...really not sure where you got this from.
-Women being useless... Bella is not useless, Alice is not useless. Several other women in the series are surprisingly strong, self reliant characters.
-Marrying a 5-year old... Okay, I said the last book read like weird fanfiction. But, no, he doesn't marry a 5-year old. It's made clear that it's not love, he just really wants her to be happy, and it's a bond that might potentially turn into love when she grows older, and then it's just the age issue again. The problem is something they talk about several times over the course of the series.

So, please don't go around carrying hate for a book you admit to not having read. It's irrational and only says bad things about you.
(Rant over.)

And yes, of course I've read and watched "Let the right one in". It's super cute and everyone should at least see the movie. The book gets a bit gorey though, and should be read in swedish.

[Raya]

(The following rant should not be read if one thinks the discussion about Twilight is irrelevant)

Hunger games is not primarely a romance novel. It has a good plot and story which could easily stand alone with few revisions without the romantic tension and triangles. It is also written for older teens. Twilight is primarely a romance novel. It is written for young teenage girls. Fiction for young teenage girls is very rarely good literature by the standards of other kinds of literature, what I'm trying to say is that compared to some other things it's not that bad.
Now, on to your arguments.
-A 100+ years old man... The age issue is a human thing that exists because humans deteriorate over time. Stories in which one of the parties is immortal make the point irrelevant. Love doesn't actually care about age.
-Grooming into an emotionally abusive relationship... Wow, the emotions thing. I think you're talking about the second book here. That's not actually an abusive relationship, it's him trying to protect her and not realizing how much it hurts her. I know it sounds tacky, again: young, teenage girls' literature. There is no ill will in the relationship. Any "emotional abuse" is built on misunderstandings. Once they both decide to be together it's just a good relationship built on mutual love.
-Badly written... Young. Teenage. Girls. No, it's not high literature. Very few pure romance novels are.
-Domestic violence being positive... Not entirely sure where you got this from.
-Black people dissappearing...really not sure where you got this from.
-Women being useless... Bella is not useless, Alice is not useless. Several other women in the series are surprisingly strong, self reliant characters.
-Marrying a 5-year old... Okay, I said the last book read like weird fanfiction. But, no, he doesn't marry a 5-year old. It's made clear that it's not love, he just really wants her to be happy, and it's a bond that might potentially turn into love when she grows older, and then it's just the age issue again. The problem is something they talk about several times over the course of the series.

So, please don't go around carrying hate for a book you admit to not having read. It's irrational and only says bad things about you.
(Rant over.)

Dude, I take offence at that. If you actually go back and read you'll see I DID read it, but gave up because I thought it was terrible. Now I'm sorry I don't like your book series, but there's no reason to get personal about it. Just because you like something that's unpopular doesn't mean you can lash out at others you don't agree with. Hell, I like the American Godzilla movie, but I don't go into a frothing fanrage because no one else does. Just chill.

I'm not even going to get into counter-arguments about your points, because there's been whole essays written about how Edward/Bella is a by-the-numbers abusive relationship and that Bella is objectified. Also as a formerly 14 year old girl, I beg to differ that their literature is garbage. There is plenty of excellent YA fiction out there (if anything we seem to be reaching a renaissance regarding its surge in popularity), so being 14 doesn't mean your books are bad. Look at To Kill a Mockingbird, hugely popular amongst YA readers but a well-written classic.

Anyway, let's get off this before it dissolves into petty bickering. Can anyone recommend any decent werewolf novels? Vampires are ten a penny, but you never seem to be able to find good werewolf novels. Granted they're a lot harder kind of monster to write about, but it just seems strange that in a fiction genre filled with vampires, zombies and eldritch horrors there's no lycanthropes anywhere. Where are all the shapeshifters at?