General Discussion Thread

[Mélusine]

But Mélusine - that's already your country.

Considering the fiasco that has become the socialist party, neither Valls or Macron will have much of a chance - and that will leave Sarkozy, who already has some bagage shall we say from his last stint at the Champs Élysées.

Let me curl myself up in a corner and cry...

No, wait, let me go back to the town hall for the fourth time this week with more and more papers to have my registration on electoral rolls *Won't pay train/find a car to do a four hours travel and then back home twice just to vote in her family's city, and think that administration isn't helping to do this supposed simple change*

[urbicande]

Eventually? I am pretty sure those type of people still swear by the protocol of the Elder of Zion and are convinced that the media and the upper echelons of the american economy is run by the jews. Hopefully they will be too busy posting s***ty memes on 4chan instead of taking action.

It'll take time, I think.  They'll be emboldened by Trump's win, certainly.  The KKK was out celebrating in white robes and hoods on Wednesday morning. What's going to happen, though, is they'll go for the Muslims first (this is already happening) and the immigrants (which is also already happening).

A great many of the Jews I know (most of whom have probably never even touched a gun) are considering arming themselves against what they see as inevitable.  At least one LGBTQ person I know has already bought a long gun for her home (this is New York; handguns are a PITA to get).

[Vafhudr]

It'll take time, I think.  They'll be emboldened by Trump's win, certainly.  The KKK was out celebrating in white robes and hoods on Wednesday morning. What's going to happen, though, is they'll go for the Muslims first (this is already happening) and the immigrants (which is also already happening).

A great many of the Jews I know (most of whom have probably never even touched a gun) are considering arming themselves against what they see as inevitable.  At least one LGBTQ person I know has already bought a long gun for her home (this is New York; handguns are a PITA to get).

So it is coming to this already. In New York no less.

Well then. That is truly disheartening to hear. Their willingness to resort to violence shouldn't be underestimated, so do take the necessary precautions - though in this case it might be difficult.

[Solokov]

Snopes kinda says the whole "KKK marching in celebration" of trump's presidential visctory thing is false.

[Valerre]

I haven't been here long and I find politics exhausting but as an American experiencing the chaos I feel the need to weigh in.

First of all, I won't judge anyone based on who they voted for (and I certainly don't hate anyone). I'm a weary moderate with much to learn about the world still but live in a state that remains blue every cycle by a landslide. You have the right to vote regardless of whether or not I or anyone else disagrees with you. I have family who voted for Trump who have shared their concerns and thoughts with me and I am not about to prescribe to a double-standard. Actually, I lived in Texas for a number of years in one of the last cities to desegregate in the late 70s (even the literal brick line down the middle of a road in town is still there). I spent a couple of my high school years there and quickly realized how prevalent separation based on religion, race, and sexuality are even today. Whites didn't go to the "other" school in town for fear of being attacked and few blacks went to the school that I attended, which was unreal to me having spent much more of my youth in the West. My point is, I know and love people on both sides. Keep fighting for what you believe in, but don't perpetuate hate or try to take away another person's rights or freedoms. TL;DR: I LOVE YOU ALL.   

Second of all, I am scared but I have hope in the checks and balances of our system (despite the House and Senate being under Republican control for this presidency). But nonetheless, as a white woman I am still a woman. I wasn't worrying about electing our first female president and focused on which policies align with the future I want to see for our country. I have hope that one day we will elect a female president despite the results of this election even if I'm in my twilight years when it happens.

But what scares me most is watching as my LGBTQ and minority friends are being terrified into corners, sent death-threats, or fear that some of their rights are about to be revoked. However, I am trying my best to comfort them and stay positive. Change isn't something we simply vote for once every four years--it's something we have to fight for day-to-day through activism, volunteerism, and community growth.

I'm doing my best to not let the anxiety of having PTSD take over with all the yelling and riots and unrest. So I'm going to go back to my art and writing and game-making for now. Thanks for letting me chime in, even if it wasn't helpful and just a rant.  

[Solokov]

But what scares me most is watching as my LGBTQ and minority friends are being terrified into corners, sent death-threats, or fear that some of their rights are about to be revoked. However, I am trying my best to comfort them and stay positive. Change isn't something we simply vote for once every four years--it's something we have to fight for day-to-day through activism, volunteerism, and community growth.

Same. I've outright told some of my friends that if someone starts rounding folks up for [shenanigans] involving camps and forced conversion therapy, things of that nature (seriously I've had my ear to the ground on a lot of news sources for the whole campaign and literally yesterday was the first I've ever heard of that being a thing.... you'd think the clinton camp would have made a big deal about that.) that I'd be sure to take my vote to the rooftops and protect against the rounding up of folks.

Seriously, don't care who you are or what you do. Eveyone has the right to live their life as they see fit, s'long as it doesn't get in the way of other people doing the same. It's kinda why I'm opposed to recreational marijuana if it doesn't have the same or similar restrictions as cigarettes.

[Valerre]

Seriously, don't care who you are or what you do. Eveyone has the right to live their life as they see fit, s'long as it doesn't get in the way of other people doing the same. It's kinda why I'm opposed to recreational marijuana if it doesn't have the same or similar restrictions as cigarettes.

Yeah, I feel a little Kantian in that sense. I like how one of my professors described it in college:*holds up fist in a fake punch to his own nose* "My freedom ends where the other guy's nose begins."

With marijuana and cigarettes and even vaping, I get pretty frustrated with people polluting public airspace because I have allergic reactions to the first two (and nausea associated with vaping) that cause breathing problems, swollen throat, migraines, and general chest pain for anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days after exposure. Once again, I have very close friends and family who smoke. I still love them; I just try to keep away from those activities for my own health.

[OwlsG0]

Yeah, I feel a little Kantian in that sense. I like how one of my professors described it in college:*holds up fist in a fake punch to his own nose* "My freedom ends where the other guy's nose begins."

With marijuana and cigarettes and even vaping, I get pretty frustrated with people polluting public airspace because I have allergic reactions to the first two (and nausea associated with vaping) that cause breathing problems, swollen throat, migraines, and general chest pain for anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days after exposure. Once again, I have very close friends and family who smoke. I still love them; I just try to keep away from those activities for my own health.

The problem is that these activities aren't as low-key as vaping. It's a good analogy, but the 'vaping' equivalent is something which can kill people. I actually fear for the lives of my Puerto Rican half of the family right now for a good reason. They haven't left their apartment since the 9th and are getting a white friend to do the grocery shopping for the rest of the week. The problem with this is that hate speech has just been validated, and it's going to move from the private sphere to the public, political and governmental.
And we're really going to suffer for it. That's why people are really scared, because people are going to get hurt.

[Jethan]

Thank you all.  I couldn't finish reading all the replies because I started crying too hard from relief.  Like over half an hour.  And still not done.

I seldom feel able to say my opinion about things, throw in politics and that I live in a liberal state and I usually feel like a total outsider.  And yet, here we have stated our differences and you have all shown you still care, and have allowed me to just be different.

I was crying so hard I was tingling all over my body, I think I heard that's a thing that deals with emotional pain?  I think something pretty significant just happened.
So thanks again.  You're all good people.

I think I need to detach for a few days and just make art.

[Iceea]

What I find interesting is the feeling that I and quite a few other people have that Trump didn't expect to win. In a couple of the photos from his public appearances today he's the usual smiley, confidant, "the Donald" but there's also this under current of "o crap what have I gotten myself into".
As has been observed by many the major problem is his attitude, his campaign rhetoric, will set the tone for how many people act. It may/will embolden those who already dislike one group or another to act out those dislikes in perhaps violent ways. Hopefully someone will make him understand how his attitude and demeanor affect the public and he will mollify his behavior or at least condemn acts of violence against any group. Being trans on the verge of going full time I may have to reconsider that move.
What this election showed is that there a large portion of the American citizenry that feels disenfranchised, the American Dream has failed them, and there is no one in the guv'mnt who understands that or gives a rat's behind about them. Unfortunately Mr Trump may not be able to anything for those folks, Washington politics being what they are.
We can only wait and see. It will be an interesting 4 years.
 

[Solokov]

I'm not normally one for conspiracies, but I would like to point out a good chunk of last night's protests were alleged to have been funded by moveon.org

Additionally a lot of the alleged racism and xenophobia that "came out of the trump campaign" was generally either some very extreme supporters, blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, or straight up falsified...

Honestly I don't really want to dig through 200 articles again like I did during the Euromaiden protests to prove a point.. this whole election has left me jaded and exhausted... hell the [shennanigans] that happened with the russian invasion of Ukraine and basically lack of response from the international community kinda left me feeling dead inside.

[Valerre]

The problem is that these activities aren't as low-key as vaping. It's a good analogy, but the 'vaping' equivalent is something which can kill people. .

I didn't really mean it as an analogy. I was just more-so frustrated by neighbors/people smoking out their car windows on my walk to school/work. But I understand, that's why I said that I'm afraid right now too for something far worse that might be coming. Am I going to even feel safe walking anywhere anymore at all? Even if it's in full daylight? What about the women who have already had their hijabs ripped off or stolen and told that they aren't welcome here? What about my Latino friends who, in some cases, had no say in this election and now fear being separated from family or worse?

I'm not normally one for conspiracies, but I would like to point out a good chunk of last night's protests were alleged to have been funded by moveon.org

Additionally a lot of the alleged racism and xenophobia that "came out of the trump campaign" was generally either some very extreme supporters, blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, or straight up falsified...

I don't know about this. I personally know a number of people who are organizing protests across the US and they're simply activists. A similar thing goes along with the racism and xenophobia thing--like I said, I have friends who have had people approach them since the election with everything from threats to hate speech. I don't think these people were "caused" by Trump. From my experience of living in the South, I think they already existed in our country before Trump ever thought of even running for office, with those views and tendencies, and now feel empowered by the results of the election.

Dang it, I need to finish this policy paper that's due tomorrow but this week has been rough. I'm looking forward to doing art this weekend too...and the chapter break being over! 

[Róisín]

Valerre, I think you have a point. The two time periods which I will be watching with concern are the coming two days (first weekend since the election, when the newly-empowered shallow end of the Trumpist voting pool will have a chance to get drunk and really cut loose), and the week after the inauguration, for similar reasons.

Even here in Australia we've had a few problems already. Waiting to see what happens.

[Sc0ut]

I'm not normally one for conspiracies, but I would like to point out a good chunk of last night's protests were alleged to have been funded by moveon.org

Yeah, no. Do you find it hard to believe people would genuinely protest, without funding, on this issue? Claims like these piss me off, especially when presented without evidence (even as a non-American). I've been in a few protests in my country that ended up being painted in the media as "no good lazy hipsters paid by [whatever occult organizations sounded scary at that point]". These claims are a propaganda tool, a way to de-legitimize the protests. I find it absolutely easy to believe people would protest a Trump presidency on their own accord and without any funding. I absolutely would if I were American. At least one fellow minnion protested, btw.

As for the people who are afraid to leave their house now, all I can say is a lot immigrants in the UK feared the same after Brexit, and there were indeed a handful of verbal street harassment incidents reported and some nasty graffiti painted, but that's about it. The fear ended up being much greater than what actually happened. Maybe that is some comfort and incentive for people to start living their lives again. Sending good thoughts from far across the ocean, and I wish I could help more.

[Solokov]

Yeah, no. Do you find it hard to believe people would genuinely protest, without funding, on this issue? Claims like these piss me off, especially when presented without evidence (even as a non-American). I've been in a few protests in my country that ended up being painted in the media as "no good lazy hipsters paid by [whatever occult organizations sounded scary at that point]".

No I don't actually find it that hard to believe that people would genuinely protest. I'm fully aware of how ill informed both sides of the coin can be and sometimes are. I've been emotionally stabbed in the back by people I thought were rational more than once this election cycle. However, It's not like it hasn't already happened during this election cycle.

Regardless, the key word here is alleged. I haven't been able to confirm any of the reports yet. I'm waiting for the arrest records to go public to compare them to known professional agitators from the Ferguson and Baltimore riots.



Anyway I mostly wanted to post regarding the latest bit of stupidity to come out of my home state of Confusion California.

Specifically, "Cal-Exit", aka the 5th largest economy wanting to become a full fledged nation. Considering the people who are rallying on this idea are silicon valley types I feel that this may be fueling the current drop in tech stock. It honestly amazes me how people who are supposed to be so smart don't think past their next big idea and the repercussions it might cause. Anyway, I'm containing my rant to a spoiler panel because I just can't beleive no one in the silicon valley actually thought this idea out much...

Spoiler: I got nothing witty on this one. • show

A serious look at the problems that the “Calexit” people need to consider if the “People’s Republic of California” will ever be a thing.
For a peaceful secession to occur the following would have to be addressed. Electrical Power, Water, Federal Infrastructure, currency and military defense.

For starters, a decent sized chunk of California’s electrical needs com from outside of the state. To successfully secede, they would either need to allow the construction of more power plants, or negotiate with neighboring countries for electrical grid access.

Same with water, as I recall there are some diversions from out of state that supply significant portions of water to southern California, which would need to be negotiated on as international agreements.
US Federal infrastructure. California is littered with it, and all of it would need to be paid for, from the water project to the corps lakes and the mryiad of military bases, among other things. Even High speed rail which has only just now started to be built has federal funding tied to it. Not to mention the highway system as well.

Which rolls into “how do you pay for all this” you can’t just use US dollars now can you. Currency has to be made, it has to also have value, not to mention that there’s several billion in federal funds that cover the shortfalls that California’s government can’t cover through taxes (which got worse this year due to about 6 billion in losses in the ag sector largely in part due to weird environmental requirements that apparently have lead towards furthering the demise of the delta smelt rather than saving it, but that’s a rant for another day).

Finally, who’s going to protect them from foreign threats? The US military certainly won’t have any duty to, and the citizens in California who own firearms have been harassed, ostracized and been a political whipping boy for at least the last 20 years and would have very little reason to aid the same people who have been doing everything in their power to abolish their right to bear arms in the state of California. That group alone could very well become a very serious insurgency to the fledgling PROC.

And that’s all only if it’s a peaceful secession.
In a non-peaceful secession scenario the PROC literally starts off with roughly a third of the US military might occupying it’s soil from the get-go, and a gun owning populace that had no reason to defend the people that caused the secession at best, and are a US-friendly insurgency at worst.

To seriously suggest that California secede from the union is a pipe dream on the best of outcomes, and essentially a writ of suicide on the worst.