General Discussion Thread

[OwlsG0]

Vi, I'm happy to read that your experience with the forum had helped you to find a job Sometimes little things like that appear to be important later.

(And trust me, I'm not reassured when I see one of our candidates here in France for the elections next year and how many persons seems ready to vote for her "just to protest and oh, she won't be elected at the end"...)

Back in the early days of the Nazi campaign, most of their votes were cast as protests against the Weimar government for being ineffective. Of course Hitler was placed in power by an ex-Chancellor to be a puppet (a puppet that became of its controller far too quickly), but still, his support base started and always was in those protesting the established government. I think it's called populism?
Pardon the information dump. This is the only thing my family (with a dad that does pol-sci for a living) can talk about right now so I thought I might share some historical parallels for what's going on here

[Keeper]

I'm waiting until the weekend to really talk about things. Waiting for emotions to die down a little bit. It's not forever.

[Róisín]

Yeah, you'd think Tony Abbott, Brexit and Trump would serve as a bit of a wakeup call, wouldn't you? Sadly, people just don't seem to 'get' that an election is not a game show or a popularity contest, nor yet an occasion to protest or make a point, it is reality and a serious matter. They are choosing the CEO for their country, not going 'this one isn't perfect' or 'this one is competent but too uppity to please me' or 'that one is female'. Politics, it has been said, is the art of the possible. Whoever we vote for, a politician is going to get in. We can only choose as wisely as we are able.

OwlsGo, yes, I spotted those parallels quite early in the piece. I'll start seriously worrying when you get 'special police forces', probably set up to police non-existent election fraud or prevent 'internal terrorism'. Sort of like the Brownshirts. And I'll be really scared if some sort of Kristallnacht incident is staged. I half expect something to happen to Trump now that he is president-elect, since it has to be apparent to whoever is running him that he is totally incapable of running a dog show, little say a country. I loathe this.

[Jethan]

I don't really know how to say this, but I gotta try: (Especially since I spent all night composing it)

Spoiler: Political • show

I voted for Trump.  Clinton had too poor a track record of protecting classified information and thus national security.
I knew that's not popular here, and I figured I would just keep quiet and not bother anyone by talking about it...

...But suicides?! A Holocaust?!

I'm not going to be silent and let someone think it's so bad that suicide is a viable option out, that somehow all Trump voters, or at least the majority of them, are just a pack of hate-filled bigots who personally want to drive you out of here. 
No.  We're Americans, ALL of us, we are not out to kill each other.  Just NO!

I just can't stand thinking that people here think their lives are in danger from tens of millions of voters whose only violent intent was to give Washington D.C. a great big kick in the pants.  Because everyone is eternally fed up with politicians and their government, and I'll bet in the next election, or certainly the one after that, that things will swing blue once more, and we'll just keep swinging back and forth.  And no crazy dictatorship ensues.
And Trump is a billionaire businessman, why in the world would he bust the country that allowed him to be successful? 

And if it's too disheartening that I voted the way I did, I can leave.  I probably will leave, because politics gets divisive, and a lot of people here are taking it really hard and if you really think he's the next Hitler and not just a bombastic businessman, then I doubt there's anything I could say or do to help.  And I don't want to bother anyone or cause trouble, but simply show that others can have a very different viewpoint on this matter without being some sort of freak.

(Ugh. I stayed up too long)

...And all this is just worst-case scenario. There is still a chance that the police, the legal system and the military may hold to their obligations to society, and do their best to protect everyone. I surely hope so.

The military totally wanted the Asteroid to annihilate Earth rather than vote for either candidate.  Heh heh.
Or reanimate Eisenhower.
Both links lead to the Duffel Blog, satire site full of cussing and stuff like that.

The military won't self-invade or support a dictator.  They'll just start meme wars instead (after annihilating the wannabe-dictator, of course).

But if the U.S. military ever loses its sense of humor it will start the Apocalypse and we are all Doomed.

[Yuuago]

No.  We're Americans, ALL of us, we are not out to kill each other.  Just NO!

/raises an eyebrow

'We are not out to kill each other'?

/looks at some of the things that have happened in your country in the last year or two

Are you sure?

[Mélusine]

I'm not sure it's the right place to talk about that, so maybe moderators will ask us to stop (If what I'm writing is too much, I apologize.), but to be honest, Jethan, I'm still not understanding what people found interesting in Trump's candidature. And it's a real interrogation.

Spoiler: show

What I've seen from the other side of the ocean is a man having a completely awful vision of the women and treating them in an unacceptable way, who puts people who are not white-Christian-Americans in the same bag, wants less strangers and to build a wall (To build a wall ! O _ o In which year are we ?), and seems to have zero empathy for a lot of communities in which I have friends who matter for me. And I'm not even thinking to relations with other countries and climatic questions.

As a stranger for America and as a woman, I'm not feeling reassured with his values and ideas.
After, I know that we're all differents, and that people have a right to express themselves. They've done it with this election. I do my best to respect their opinions. I won't fight with someone voting here for a candidate I don't like myself, and elections are coming for us in France. But I could fight for ideas, and protecting the persons I love, and preventing hate to take more place in everyday life. Maybe I'm too kind or too naïve, but I still wish for humans to be able to live with each other, and in peace. We should be able to do that. We should be able to learn. Unfortunately, and especially as an History student, I'm more sad and afraid that what I would like to be, seeing what we're all doing, again and again...
So at least I will cherish the space we have here, and friendships which have grown, and continue to share with people who want to share and chat and learn and grow with them. I'll be here to listen to the ones who want or need to talk, to laugh, smile, exchange, and for who they can have voted in their countries doesn't matter as long as we're still able to communicate and maintain a nice atmosphere This forum is still the best internet place I've ever seen. I hope it will continue.

[urbicande]

Just wanna hear from our Americans, of all colours and creeds. Are we all doing ok? I've already been in contact with my Latino half of the family and what's going on outside their front door worries me, deeply. Most of my family lives in the Deep South and there have been a few attacks already. Some American friends at school are reporting family friends taking their own lives over the results, so I guess this is just a general plea to hear that we're all ok?

Well, I'm a middle-class cisgender white* male, so I should be able to ride out the disaster that's coming mostly OK, at least in the beginning.

*For some value of white.  There's been a lot of far-right and white supremacist stuff coming out in the open.  Right now they're looking at Muslims and immigrants, but they always come for the Jews, eventually.

[Róisín]

Jethan, I couldn't possibly hate you, and I'm sure nobody would wish you to go. How you vote is between yourself and your conscience, and hopefully will remain so.

Like Mélusine, I know a bit about history, and in my particular case have been around awhile. I lived through the Second World War and its aftermath, and a lot of what is happening now is scarily reminiscent of things that happened then. I can see some terrifying patterns being repeated. Because knowledge of world history seems to be a little scant in the modern American education system, I think the Europeans are more likely to recognise the same patterns and to know enough to be afraid.

You, yourself, will probably be okay, because you belong to the majority race and religion, and so are likely to be insulated from the worst of it. But this will not be so for everybody here.

All you can do now is to care for those not so fortunate, and observe and think deeply before the next election. But I'm sure we don't hate you!

[urbicande]

Like Mélusine, I know a bit about history, and in my particular case have been around awhile. I lived through the Second World War and its aftermath, and a lot of what is happening now is scarily reminiscent of things that happened then. I can see some terrifying patterns being repeated. Because knowledge of world history seems to be a little scant in the modern American education system, I think the Europeans are more likely to recognise the same patterns and to know enough to be afraid.

Some of us studied that history (although I'm clearly too young to have lived through any of it; even my parents were small children at the time).  But, yes, I'm feeling a lot like we're living in Niemöller's world right now.

[VibratingText]

Not sure which would be worse. Trump is more overtly vicious, but Pence's views are pretty scary too, and he looks a good deal more competent.

Trump was only more overtly vicious early on, he's toned it down as the election campaign progressed - this seems to be a favored strategy of his. Pence however is everything the left fears in Trump, only substantially more competent. Pence would do enormous damage as a president, Trump will just continue saying a few mean things here and there while trying/succeeding at destroying the left's echo chambers.

OTOH, I don't think Clinton would have made a good president anyway at this point. If she can't even beat a sapient tangerine, how could she be?

[Róisín]

Mind you, the voter suppression probably helped him. And the fact that only 50% of the electorate actually voted.

[Athena]

I don't particularly like Trump, but I can see some reasons why people might. For instance, he is a good businessman. Sure, he's had a few failed businesses, but for the most part he's been pretty successful. Also, he's pro-oil, that would be good not only for the Americans but for the Canadian economy as well.

So at least I will cherish the space we have here, and friendships which have grown, and continue to share with people who want to share and chat and learn and grow with them. I'll be here to listen to the ones who want or need to talk, to laugh, smile, exchange, and for who they can have voted in their countries doesn't matter as long as we're still able to communicate and maintain a nice atmosphere This forum is still the best internet place I've ever seen. I hope it will continue.

We all are different, and I think that's an important thing to remember. Each and every person here has their own thoughts and opinions on this subject. That's one thing that's so amazing about this forum - we all have different homelands, different languages, different ideals and religions, but we can still come together here and converse in a civilized manner. I would like that to continue, so lets leave the political discussion to the side for now.

There's no point in arguing for or against one candidate or another, because for the most part, it's not going to change anyone's opinions on that subject. Everyone has had their different reasons for voting how they did, and this outcome is what it is.

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Political discussion is fine, but I say we keep it to the Comfort Corner, and not start fighting for our preferred candidates.

[Vafhudr]

@ Urbicande

Eventually? I am pretty sure those type of people still swear by the protocol of the Elder of Zion and are convinced that the media and the upper echelons of the american economy is run by the jews. Hopefully they will be too busy posting shitty memes on 4chan instead of taking action.

@ Melusine

Simply put - there isn't much that is interesting about Trump as president. The only thing he did is that he appealed to those who had been left out of the political discourse under the democrats. Clinton appealed directly to very specific demographics: women, lgbt, immigrants and so on. These are, arguably, the big losers in this election - but Clinton gave no reason to middle and lower class workers, who are overwhelmingly white or rather "american" - they don't care about those issues, and instead, Clinton's emphasis on free trade and possibly international conflict goes directly against their interests. They have been the ones paying the tab for the last few decades of "economic restructuring". Obama worked on the field and appealed to them. Clinton failed to do so - see, for instance, how she failed to clinch anything in the Rust Belt. There are still people living in between the northeast coast and the west coast. They might no agree with Trump's behaviour or even all his positions - but Trump at least paid attention to them. He gave them a reason to vote for him, however vague his engagements may be. This is why, following VibratingText, he toned down his narrative as the campaign went on. He started out strong - to convince his hardcore right base - but these are not the people who would have won him the election. He needed to reach a much more moderate electorate in the Great lakes area.

Also brace yourself because Marine Le Pen will almost surely be the next president of France.

And also as someone who has studied quite a bit of world history, I urge caution when using the words fascist or Nazi with Trump. Some of his supporters are definitely those things - especially in the fringe. He, on the other, mostly isn't. He played a populist card, to be sure, and he personally probably has more than an authoritarian and narcissistic streak, but I think we have seen quite a deformation of definition if to be a fascist nowadays simply means to have nationalist and xenophobic views. Fascism is a very specific, if somewhat hazy, form of political organization and I sure has heck have not seen Trump clamouring for the assimilation of the american people to the state.

For those who are still unsure of what Fascism means, I would simply point out that Mussolini straight up had a book written on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism

[Mélusine]

Also brace yourself because Marine Le Pen will almost surely be the next president of France.

Please, no. No no no. And I'm not the kind of person who talks a lot about politic things, but be sure that I'll vote and do what I can to prevent that to happen. Otherwise, I won't recognize my country anymore...

We all are different, and I think that's an important thing to remember. Each and every person here has their own thoughts and opinions on this subject. That's one thing that's so amazing about this forum - we all have different homelands, different languages, different ideals and religions, but we can still come together here and converse in a civilized manner. I would like that to continue, so lets leave the political discussion to the side for now.

That. Exactly, Luth

[Vafhudr]

But Mélusine - that's already your country.

Considering the fiasco that has become the socialist party, neither Valls or Macron will have much of a chance - and that will leave Sarkozy, who already has some bagage shall we say from his last stint at the Champs Élysées.