Writers' Corner

[IKEA]

I've actually heard that you don't want to write exactly how people irl talk, because it comes out very messy; false starts, stuttering, changing trains of thought in the middle of a sentence, forgetting words. That isn't to say that listening to real life people won't help, but don't try to make your characters talk like real people. Try to have your characters talk like people think they talk or how they wish they talked.

Even if you have a character with a stutter, it's better to leave most of that in the speech tags. Instead of:

"I-I-I-I was j-just go-going t-to th-the st-tore," she said.

it might be better to write

"I-I-I-I was just going t-to the tore," she said/stuttered.

And even then that might be too much really. And remember that just like everything in the story, the dialogue is there to move the story forward or tell us something about the characters or world.

Moving the story forward without being distracting in its own right. Thanks, that makes more sense!

[Mélusine]

Anybody have good tips for writing dialogue? That's by far my biggest weakness as a writer. I've tried to listen carefully to how people talk in everyday conversation but it never comes out right on paper.

I'm not sure I have advices, but for pity's sake, don't write dialogues with characters saying just "Yes.", "No.", or worst, "...", and all should be fine.

[Asterales]

I'm not sure I have advices, but for pity's sake, don't write dialogues with characters saying just "Yes.", "No.", or worst, "...", and all should be fine.

Should I laugh or cry? I don't know
As for additional tips: Maybe more concerning speech patterns than actual dialogue. You can try to express the characters' personality with their speech. Give them quirks and such. You could have a character that uses long, convoluted sentences to answer, or one that is always to the point and maybe a bit to honest for comfort, one that always adds qualifiers or someone who is prone to changing the subject, expressing everything in vage phrases, can't let off the sarcasm and so on...
As these different kinds of speech patterns are sometimes not compatible, tension is bound to spring up and one character calling an other one on because he can't understand/access their way of expressing themselves might be interesting, for example and easily used to create confusion in the prelude to a plot twist or in generally furthering the plot.
But these are just ideas on my part.

I'd like some input regarding the best point to start telling my story. For reference, the action starts when the MC is about 18(!) There are four possibilities:

Spoiler: for it is really rather long • show

1. When the main character is 6/7.
    + Getting to know his family a little bit.
    + Experiencing said families believes and dynamics first hand (rather than when he is already kept hostage and only thinks about it).
    + Being eased into the culture of a magical people.
    -  The MC is really rather young and I'don't know how to handle that.
    -  Nothing much is happening. So it would be character development and world building only. I'd need to fill even more long stretches of nothingness than with the next two options.

2. When the MC is 8/9.
    + Getting to know the capital of his home 'country', the customs (some of which will be extremely important in the second part of the story), becoming acquainted with the imperial family (his families main branch), his own and his families standing. All this is really important.
    + Something actually happens at this point, because it is the first time he is being held captive.
    -  What can a child do? especially an obedient one.
    -  Four years of education and indoctrination that would need to be bridged somehow in addition to the rather long stretch of his second captivity.

3. When the MC is 12/13.
    + I feel this is an age I can work with.
    + Stuff starts happening. Second time for him to be a hostage. Going straight form one place to the other, without seeing his family, might I mention. The rest of the main cast starts appearing (although it is only about an eigth of the main cast when compared to the second part of the story).
    + Getting to know the 'enemies' traditions and lifestyle.
    + There is actually a proper character to start building and inner as well as outer conflicts galore.
    + Definitely the most important for the formation of the MC's personality.
    -  A lot of the supporting cast that will be very important in the second part of the story is likely to go unmentioned, even though they would play a major role during the first two choices of the starting point in terms of influence over the MC.
    -  Pretty much all of the 'original' culture of the MC would be introduced by indirect depiction/memory/comparison, as would his family and the imperial family.
    -  Still more or less 6 years to somehow cover. I'm just not a huge fan of "two years later". There is also the problem that while stuff does happen it mostly happens a few months/years apart, after the initial uproar.

4. When the MC is 18.
    + The story begins. In earnest.
    + I would have a continuous story line from here on out...
    -  But no explanation on what the hell is going on. So it might end in unimaginative info dump. Actually, I am very sure it will, because what happens to get the whole mess in motion could not have been foreseen by any of the characters in the story, but what happens after that is all about the MC social standing, political factions, cultural clash and relationships the MC build or didn't build during his previous life with his various captors.
    - I don't know if anyone could appreciate that eighth of the main cast, that is in this first part of the story, because the character would only be there for about 20 to 30 pages - at the most.

[Mélusine]

Should I laugh or cry? I don't know

Errr... did I said something I shouldn't have said ? If yes, it wasn't my intention.

[Asterales]

Errr... did I said something I shouldn't have said ? If yes, it wasn't my intention.

No, just something very, very true! 

[Róisín]

Asterales: couple of things I'll add.

Speech patterns: you can do a lot of non-obvious exposition about a character just by how they speak. By having them sound erudite, using technical terms or long flowing sentences you can suggest an educated or academic character. Brash or hesitant speech, shorter and simpler words and sentences, can be used to show lack of education or lower social position. A taciturn character who normally doesn't say much at all, then suddenly waxes lyrical about something, can demonstrate important character development, or indicate hitherto unexplored facets of his nature. Think Lalli's runos compared to his normal way of talking or not talking. This can also be used for shock value, or to make a major point in the story. I remember my husband telling me about a series he was reading in which one of the characters, who is taciturn to the point where the other characters assume he is mute, three years into the story suddenly comes out with a single sentence which completely changes the readers' estimation of his character. Up to that point he had come across as a grim and unfeeling character who didn't interact, but the readers' perspective was completely shaken up by that one sentence.

And 'what can a child do?' A child in a story can do what a real child might do: watch, observe, learn, suffer, rejoice, educate himself or decide there is no point in doing so, miss people or be glad of their absence, (and perhaps feel guilty about either), dream, plan, hope, despair. Work out how he thinks and feels about all manner of things. Make friends -or enemies. Grow up.

[IKEA]

I'd like some input regarding the best point to start telling my story. For reference, the action starts when the MC is about 18(!) There are four possibilities:

Spoiler: for it is really rather long • show

1. When the main character is 6/7.
    + Getting to know his family a little bit.
    + Experiencing said families believes and dynamics first hand (rather than when he is already kept hostage and only thinks about it).
    + Being eased into the culture of a magical people.
    -  The MC is really rather young and I'don't know how to handle that.
    -  Nothing much is happening. So it would be character development and world building only. I'd need to fill even more long stretches of nothingness than with the next two options.

2. When the MC is 8/9.
    + Getting to know the capital of his home 'country', the customs (some of which will be extremely important in the second part of the story), becoming acquainted with the imperial family (his families main branch), his own and his families standing. All this is really important.
    + Something actually happens at this point, because it is the first time he is being held captive.
    -  What can a child do? especially an obedient one.
    -  Four years of education and indoctrination that would need to be bridged somehow in addition to the rather long stretch of his second captivity.

3. When the MC is 12/13.
    + I feel this is an age I can work with.
    + Stuff starts happening. Second time for him to be a hostage. Going straight form one place to the other, without seeing his family, might I mention. The rest of the main cast starts appearing (although it is only about an eigth of the main cast when compared to the second part of the story).
    + Getting to know the 'enemies' traditions and lifestyle.
    + There is actually a proper character to start building and inner as well as outer conflicts galore.
    + Definitely the most important for the formation of the MC's personality.
    -  A lot of the supporting cast that will be very important in the second part of the story is likely to go unmentioned, even though they would play a major role during the first two choices of the starting point in terms of influence over the MC.
    -  Pretty much all of the 'original' culture of the MC would be introduced by indirect depiction/memory/comparison, as would his family and the imperial family.
    -  Still more or less 6 years to somehow cover. I'm just not a huge fan of "two years later". There is also the problem that while stuff does happen it mostly happens a few months/years apart, after the initial uproar.

4. When the MC is 18.
    + The story begins. In earnest.
    + I would have a continuous story line from here on out...
    -  But no explanation on what the hell is going on. So it might end in unimaginative info dump. Actually, I am very sure it will, because what happens to get the whole mess in motion could not have been foreseen by any of the characters in the story, but what happens after that is all about the MC social standing, political factions, cultural clash and relationships the MC build or didn't build during his previous life with his various captors.
    - I don't know if anyone could appreciate that eighth of the main cast, that is in this first part of the story, because the character would only be there for about 20 to 30 pages - at the most.

If I were you, I would cut out option 1 (6-7) entirely. It would start the story off slowly and be really hard to pull off without seeming like a massive infodump and/or filler. Maybe have 8-9 be in a short prologue: introducing everything while keeping it brief enough to keep the audience's interest. Then, start Part 1 at 12-13 and go from there.
That's just my opinion, but here's a great podcast if you need more help: http://www.writingexcuses.com

[Róisín]

IKEA, that's really interesting. Thanks!

[Jethan]

I'd like some input regarding the best point to start telling my story. For reference, the action starts when the MC is about 18(!) There are four possibilities:

I'm kinda in the same predicament.  My character starts his story as a kid, but the continuous storyline doesn't kick in until he's a young adult.  I did bump up his prologue age from 4 to 6 and kept the action I had planned for.  I guess my advice would be a to keep a firm sense of what atmospheric flavor you want your story to have, and it will help you see which starting age/action would work best.
Do you want the story to have the feeling that everything is going well for him, and then everything is taken from him when he's taken captive?  Or would starting out with him captive and feeling more grim or sad cause the reader to feel immersed in the real flavor of the story?

I think it would be too risky to start with the fourth option, it seems like the sort of story that really needs the time and space to fully delve into the world's details and nuances.  Starting out at least when he's 12/13 seems like it would be necessary for having that build up, but I would be interested in knowing about both of his times in captivity, as well as his normal life before that.  Though time skips are rather hard to handle, because it's not sensible to have a bunch of filler thrown in.  Though I think novels have it harder with those sort of gaps, compared with webcomics (which could have montages of time passing).
It might also depend on how many books you want.  If it's one book then starting with the third option seems sensible, but if it's a series it would make sense to have more background going into it.
Who knows, you may find that something happens when he's 6/7 that is highly plot relevant but wouldn't come up in the in-between times, or starting off with the main action is the best idea.  Try to figure out what mix of colors and flavors each point is and how they could work together.

[Asterales]

Thank you all for your thoughts! All of them where helpful, although I haven't decided yet.
Let me answer you individually 

IKEA, I haven't had the chance to listen to the podcast yet, but hope to do so before going to bed.
Róisín, I know that you are right, of course, but a prologue spanning 10 years? I hope to not produce a second Wheel of Time. If I do, please kill me. (Sorry to all fans!)
Jethan, his life has never actually been that great, even when he was with his family, so his first captivity was almost enjoyable to him, because it gave him a purpose of sorts, and he met other children of his age.
Otherwise your advice is really helpful.
At the moment it looks like the story might span two books, although I could easily make it four shorter ones. I don't think a trilogy would work (the middle book often feels like a filler, anyway).

I thought I might try writing it form when he is 12, which is what I had planned originally (like four years ago, before I even knew there would be a second part).
Maybe I could try to have a proper, long chapter or several chapters in a row that deal with current developments, then have a short interlude in the form of a dream, a memory, a letter, that shows his past? And jump in time after each of them? Hmmm.
Might also be a bit difficult to make that seem natural... Hm. I could include a little bit of his first captivity: there is a delegation coming to get him from there anyway. It means I can use a scene I wrote almost seven years ago. With heavy modification. Which is better than not at all.
...
That would be nice.

I'll think about it some more!
And try draw up a chapter plan, rather than just a plan of the whole plot, which is what I have done so far. Maybe mark the 'nothing happens' places in and try to figure out which complementary memories could take their place...

Any other ideas?
Do you usually write plans for chapters? And what information do you use to draw up these plans?

[IKEA]

I usually don't draw chapter plans, but I really should. What kind of info? Hmmm...well, what plot developments you want to include in the chapter, maybe what characters are introduced, and an idea of where you want the story to go after that chapter.

[Mélusine]

Do you usually write plans for chapters? And what information do you use to draw up these plans?

I have done that for the last NaNo, in order to try to balance my chapters. I was simply writing the big things supposed to happen, resumed in one sentence, and trying to have three of them, not more, by chapter. But this is maybe an university's habit...

What do you feel when you give what you've written to someone, or post it for the persons who write things like fanfictions ? I'm always so nervous, I'm curious to know if it's common or not so much

[Yuuago]

What do you feel when you give what you've written to someone, or post it for the persons who write things like fanfictions ? I'm always so nervous, I'm curious to know if it's common or not so much

Totally, absolutely, completely nervous. I basically feel like I'm going to die every time.
Whenever I post on Ao3, I feel like I'm shoving stuff in people's faces. It makes me feel really really anxious and awkward.

So, this is part of the reason that my main/"real" fic archive is on Dreamwidth, not Ao3. There aren't any stat counters, and user subscriptions do not exist - aside from the Reading List, and there are ways to prevent entries from appearing on people's reading lists, even if they are subscribed to you. So, I am way more comfortable with that - posting there makes me feel like I'm putting something in my own space, and that I'm not imposing on anybody. Even though people can see it, it feels "private" somehow, because they need to seek my writing out directly in order to see it, instead of just coming across it randomly while browsing.

But I'm trying to get better/less nervous about posting stuff "publicly"/to Ao3, because I know that these feelings are silly, and that there's no reason to hide my work.

[Aierdome]

What do you feel when you give what you've written to someone, or post it for the persons who write things like fanfictions ? I'm always so nervous, I'm curious to know if it's common or not so much

Actually, now that I think about it, it depends whether I give it to someone "in person" (for example, mailing it to a friend I know "in flesh") or post publicly. In the first case, I'm more like "did you read it already? what do you think? what did I do wrong?" and I have to stop myself from heaving all of those questions on the person the day after I sent the thing out. But when I post it online... "oh gosh they're going to hate it and it's terrible and they'll bash it and I've commited a terrible piece of writing..."

Completely unrealistic, I know, but try to tell this to my nerves. 

[Mélusine]

Totally, absolutely, completely nervous. I basically feel like I'm going to die every time.

I don't know if I must feel relieved ("I'm not the only one") or not. For me, it's mostly a "and it will be as if they were seeing inside of me, what had I in mind when I talked about the fact I'm writing and said yes for giving something to read ?"

Actually, now that I think about it, it depends whether I give it to someone "in person" (for example, mailing it to a friend I know "in flesh") or post publicly. In the first case, I'm more like "did you read it already? what do you think? what did I do wrong?" and I have to stop myself from heaving all of those questions on the person the day after I sent the thing out. But when I post it online... "oh gosh they're going to hate it and it's terrible and they'll bash it and I've commited a terrible piece of writing..."

Completely unrealistic, I know, but try to tell this to my nerves. 

That's strange to have both the opposite reactions When someone tell me how the reading was, I'm always wondering how to disappear under the floor, right now please. And they're persons I know at least a little ! (One day, one of my beta-reader sent me a message on facebook, saying something like "I've finished iiiiiiit !" less than 48 hours after having the novel (something around 230 pages). The only stupid reaction I had been able to have was closing the page and trying to not panic more than what I was already doing ^^°)