General Discussion Thread

[Róisín]

Same problem in Australia. Look up ‘Great Artesian Basin’ to see how humans working out how to tap into the huge water reserves in the porous rock under Central Australia led to the wasting, in a few generations, of water reserves that had taken millenia to build up and caused so many desert springs, native wells and moundspring complexes to dry up completely. Not to mention depleting the water in the caves under the Nullarbor Plain.

Then there is land clearing, which reduces transpiration and thereby the amount of rain that comes back to an area. And the clearfelling of mountain forests which reduces rainfall and snowfall in those areas, thereby reducing the water that reaches rivers or seeps back into the deep aquifers.

And of course the amount of hard surfaces in cities and suburbs means the rain that does fall causes flooding, overwhelms drainage systems and runs straight out to sea with its load of soil, broken stuff and rubbish rather than having time to soak into the soil, water plants, refill pools and wetlands and replenish the aquifer.

[dreki]

Same problem in Australia. Look up ‘Great Artesian Basin’ to see how humans working out how to tap into the huge water reserves in the porous rock under Central Australia led to the wasting, in a few generations, of water reserves that had taken millenia to build up and caused so many desert springs, native wells and moundspring complexes to dry up completely. Not to mention depleting the water in the caves under the Nullarbor Plain.

*facepalm*  Yes sounds about right.  

I think one of the greater ironies of humanity is that the people who had the brilliant idea to say "nature doesn't know what it's doing, we can do it better" and made a muck of everything - turned around to the people living harmoniously with nature and said "they're ignorant savages"

We're trying to figure it out. Hopefully we can.

[thegreyarea]

Róisín, I'm glad to know that things are under control on your area! I hope it keeps this way. (A big hug to you and to Star.)

Keep, those pictures are amazing! Thanks for sharing them!
Those arthropod tracks, so sharply defined! To think that an animal dragged itself there millions of years ago. And to see them next to the tiny, delicate tracks left by today's animals.

All those cliffs and landscapes are beautiful! And those stepped cliffs are quite interesting. It's not the typical erosion pattern, right? Probably due to their layered composition, I'd say, but I'm no specialist...

I think one of the greater ironies of humanity is that the people who had the brilliant idea to say "nature doesn't know what it's doing, we can do it better" and made a muck of everything - turned around to the people living harmoniously with nature and said "they're ignorant savages"

We're trying to figure it out. Hopefully we can.

I'm worried about how long will it take, and at what cost, for us to figure it out. Yet, there's always hope.

[dreki]

I'm worried about how long will it take, and at what cost, for us to figure it out. Yet, there's always hope.

When we start working with nature again, it tends to recover far more quickly than we'd feared. So there is always hope.

[Róisín]

Yes there is always hope. The young people are our planet’s hope for the future, but we all need to pitch in and give them all the help we can. It’s why I volunteer, and intend to keep doing so for as long as I can! If the human race is going to survive, we need to keep working to make a place for it to survive in. So I build community gardens, teach people how to grow food, help to clean up the local river, do revegetation and recycling projects, and whatever else I can do to help the Land.

[Eich]

Hi all! I got a new phone and wanted to drop by. :>
Róisín, I read that fig trees are great at helping revegetation efforts, since they grow in otherwise desolate places. I have no idea how the process works though. Would something like that be effective?

[dreki]

Hi all! I got a new phone and wanted to drop by. :>
Róisín, I read that fig trees are great at helping revegetation efforts, since they grow in otherwise desolate places. I have no idea how the process works though. Would something like that be effective?

Congrats on the new phone!

It's best to repopulate a place with native species as much as possible. Introducing foreign species causes so much unknown desolation. Especially in australia which has soooo many problems with invasive species.

The process of reintroduction generally looks like taking plants that are a few years old, planting them in the area, giving them some care until they can establish themselves, and hoping they catch on and stop needing care.

Sometimes you can just sow seeds - but a plant that's a few years old is hardier and hopefully more likely to survive. (Also birds/rodents can't eat them the way they can eat seeds)


Given Minna's direction I feel inclined to point out that Jesus threw a tantrum and smote a fig tree for not producing figs out of season - so be careful with figs because they bring out the worst in moody messiahs.   

[Eich]

There are local species of figs in Australia, according to ABC. I assume they don't all grow everywhere so you'd have to pick the right kind for the right area, but you could use them without introducing a foreign plant (if coordinated with a local botanist I guess?).

Once the introduced plants catch on, other things grow around them and they help catch water and stuff? :>
Also Len and our cats say hello

[Róisín]

Eich, so nice to hear from you again! As well as Len and the cats!

Yeah, we do have lots of native fig species in Australia, including some that grow in the desert. There is one outside Lasseter’s Cave, which I actually saw at first hand years ago when I was working as wilderness survival person on an expedition looking for, among other things, Lasseter’s Reef (which they unsurprisingly didn’t find, but that is a whole nother story). None of those grow close to here though, the nearest would be in Sanderston Gorge. I have planted figs in my own garden and a number of community gardens though, where they do well.

There are natives here which produce human-edible fruit, such as Tree Violet, Muntries, Heath Cranberry and Karkalla, as well as some of the Wattles with edible seeds and gum, but mostly we plant for habitat, and as you say, put in young plants and tend them until they can survive without help. Recreate and Trees For Life are very useful there. Advising on such things and helping to get things growing is part of what I do as a volunteer, being the local retired botanist. People come and ask me about their gardens, and I help where I can.

[wavewright62]

Hello hello to Eich and Lenny once again, always good to hear from you.

[dreki]

There are local species of figs in Australia, according to ABC. I assume they don't all grow everywhere so you'd have to pick the right kind for the right area, but you could use them without introducing a foreign plant (if coordinated with a local botanist I guess?).

Once the introduced plants catch on, other things grow around them and they help catch water and stuff? :>
Also Len and our cats say hello

Yeah coordinating with a local botanist is the best thing to do.  I've seen issues with well intended people planting trees that are totally wrong for an area.

I think when it's on the same land mass it tends to not be a big deal, as long as the climate is appropriate. But taking something from North America to Australia.... let's not.

Hello hello to Eich and Lenny once again, always good to hear from you.

It seems like a lot of people are coming back lately.  Someone who'd been off the discord for ages showed back up recently as well. (xollos I think?)

[Eich]

Ah, well it definitely helps to have a retired botanist in the discussion! Thanks for the info; I tend to stay indoors but I like knowing what's going on with nature more and more.

And yeah, when I came back from Tas there was a team of cleaners who pulled me aside to check and clean my hiking boots. They didn't want foreign soil and all that comes with it to enter the US. And Len has told me all about the cane toads and rabbits and stuff. Australia has a hard enough time with invasive species already, so best not to add on. ^^'

I think it's just a good time to return. It's a new year, Minna apparently posted another comic (?), and the world feels more sideways than usual. This place is safe and nice, though.

[Róisín]

Yeah, the forum is still a nice place. It’s good.

[dreki]

And yeah, when I came back from Tas there was a team of cleaners who pulled me aside to check and clean my hiking boots. They didn't want foreign soil and all that comes with it to enter the US. And Len has told me all about the cane toads and rabbits and stuff. Australia has a hard enough time with invasive species already, so best not to add on. ^^'

Soil can have loooooaaaadsss of microbes, spores, small seeds, etc - so a little bit of soil can also do quite a bit of damage in the wrong place. 

I've seen indigenous people in america call plantains "White man's footsteps" because plantains tended to crop up wherever the white settlers were, and it wouldn't surprise me if it literally came over on the sole of their shoes.

Minna apparently posted another comic (?)

May be best to pretend that's not happening, really.

[Róisín]

Out here one of the most dangerous is the oomycete Phytophthora cinnamonii which causes dieback in a number of native and cultivated species. Disinfecting boots, tools and vehicle tyres is one way to stop the spread. Sometime when it is not the small hours of the morning I will tell you the horror story of how at least one of the infestations got to Australia.