General Discussion Thread

[Oskutin]

But why, telephones are an alternative to meeting in person. And I guess text messages are an alternative to both phone talks and physical meeting.

But I'd rather do something of mentioned above - either texting, or meeting up. The latter can make me really nervous sometimes (to the verge of feeling physically sick), but it is still easier than phone talks. There is a reason: while talking on the phone, I can only focus on what is the person saying, which renders me pretty bound and not able to do something useful at the same time. And some people can talk for hours. Sitting all this time, listening, answering and not doing anything any other tasks at all is terrible. The major waste of time.

Also, I have a silent voice and I loathe shouting, and the connection or the other's person telephone can be bad sometimes, so you have to speak louder to be heard. And ask two or more times when you've failed to hear something. Bleh.

Or internet based communication aka realtime chat.

I do also prefer real meetings over phone.
In real meetings i can see the nonverbal communication and our talk could be really relaxed.

[Piney]

I try to stick to written communication (texts/emails). In person, there are still too many painfully awkward silences. And a lot of times it ends up just turning into small talk because I can't carry a conversation. (This also happens when I use Skype.)I also need to plan what I say before I say it - I can't just go off on a tangent about my day or something. It's also always better for me to see my thoughts written down before I say them. And I can take as long as I want to formulate responses.

[Eich]

What got me into a depressive state of mind that lasted most of my teens and part of my childhood was being treated very differently. When I first moved here, I was quite young, so I was able to go to school with other children my age at the same time as they first started going to school - no one thought that a girl who didn't speak English and later spoke it with an accent and a little oddly and never spoke it with her family was weird, because it was a small school and no one to tell them differently. I grew up with an illusion that yes, my family was different, but it didn't matter, and people wouldn't treat me or my family any differently because of it. Unfortunately that illusion was shattered. And even more unfortunately it was shattered by people I had rather grown to trust - not peers, but adults. Cue several years of reclusive behaviour, dropping of friendships and activities because they didn't really matter, onset of severe dislike of this place, keeping even people who did care about me at arms length, and lack of enthusiasm in practically everything except for art and books. I also developed a distrust of people. It also didn't help that I was a very smart child, and that in some respects I was smarter and more mature than quite a few adults - which unfortunately led to a tendency to look down onto others slightly, and a tendency to be very cynical. I never let either of those show if I could help it, but thinking like that doesn't help anyone relationships-wise or health-wise, and it's erroneous to boot.

Anyway. Due to distrust on one side, and a desire not to worry those closest to me on the other (and hence never voicing complaints that could have perhaps alerted them), it was quite hard for me to get out of that. I don't think it was ever as bad as described here or in the comic, but it was ... a period of time in which I couldn't enjoy anything except escapism, and there were times where even that didn't work and I was in complete apathetic slumps. I only got out of it due to a very determined friend, haha. He showed me that really, truly, not all people are two-faced and shallow and weak. I don't think I'd ever had a friend like him before, except for in primary school - one that would bug me and bug me until I'd talk about something or do something or see something. It's a bit cheesy saying it ... he was colour-blind, but gave me the ability to see colour in my world again. I didn't even realise there was something wrong with me until I experienced living without it. It was ... well, it made me determine that I never ever want to go back to those times or mindset ever again. Never. It's hard sometimes, but I'm trying now, and trying when knowing what's wrong is so much different than trying without knowing anything except that something is wrong somewhere.

So yeah. I'm glad you've got the courage to do something about it, hushpiper. I wish you, and everyone else here who needs it, lots of strength~

I'm not so bad as to be afraid of telephone calls, but I do dislike them rather. I avoid using them unless totally necessary. Mainly because the voices are so weird, and because I was traumatized once by my high school principal (whom I shared a mutual dislike with and who had somehow by some means that I STILL haven't discovered found my mobile number) ringing me up when I least expected it. And I never know what to say. I don't really care about inconveniencing people, but having to say things... bleh. I muddle them usually, and that irritates me. So, I dislike telephones...

Haha, probably! XD Haha, it's given me some pretty silly images in my head, that.

*Urge to hug... rising*
I completely get most of that, being a pariah through most of childhood, myself, though for different reasons.  I was just crazy and stupid.  I nearly failed every class I took, from 1st to 8th grade, and I had no idea how to behave.  I turned 14, and... I'm not really sure why or how, but I was just different all of a sudden.  I don't remember what happened to me to change me, but I simply wasn't the same person anymore (Years after I had him, one of my 6th grade teachers actually passed by me in the hall and said, "Hey, Eich, I heard you're not crazy anymore!  Good for you!")  I had to wake up and deal with the problems I had caused myself, and, worst of all, live under the terrible first impressions I had given my peers and learn from scratch how to be a regular person.  I ended up feeling a lot of hate during that.  Thankfully, I had already made a faithful friend, and he helped me out by just being there, and showing other people I wasn't so crazy.  I owe him a lot.

As for phones, I'm just not a fast thinker.  It takes me a while to think about what I want to say, and phones don't even let you communicate with body language at all, which makes it difficult to express certain things.  It's stressful.

[curiosity]

What got me into a depressive state of mind that lasted most of my teens and part of my childhood was being treated very differently. When I first moved here, I was quite young, so I was able to go to school with other children my age at the same time as they first started going to school - no one thought that a girl who didn't speak English and later spoke it with an accent and a little oddly and never spoke it with her family was weird, because it was a small school and no one to tell them differently. I grew up with an illusion that yes, my family was different, but it didn't matter, and people wouldn't treat me or my family any differently because of it. Unfortunately that illusion was shattered. And even more unfortunately it was shattered by people I had rather grown to trust - not peers, but adults. Cue several years of reclusive behaviour, dropping of friendships and activities because they didn't really matter, onset of severe dislike of this place, keeping even people who did care about me at arms length, and lack of enthusiasm in practically everything except for art and books. I also developed a distrust of people. It also didn't help that I was a very smart child, and that in some respects I was smarter and more mature than quite a few adults - which unfortunately led to a tendency to look down onto others slightly, and a tendency to be very cynical. I never let either of those show if I could help it, but thinking like that doesn't help anyone relationships-wise or health-wise, and it's erroneous to boot.

That is... really mean. I've seen kids being bullied because of their appearence, their manner, their weight or height, or just because some brany kid happened to dislike them a lot and let the whole other pack on them - but I've never seen a case when a kid bas threated differently because of ethnicity. When we were th the 4th grade, a half-african girl had joined us, and she spoke Russian very badly, with a strong accent, yet nobody had ever been mean to her. Well, maybe we were old enough to understand that your race or nationality doesn't change what person you are.

And it is great to have such a good friend  I believe that the life itself - or a destiny, or whatever you may call it - dealt the cards this way so you met him and became friends, as a reward for all those depressing things in the past. Okay, it's early morning here and I'm turning quite lyric.

I was just crazy and stupid.  I nearly failed every class I took, from 1st to 8th grade, and I had no idea how to behave.  I turned 14, and... I'm not really sure why or how, but I was just different all of a sudden.  I don't remember what happened to me to change me, but I simply wasn't the same person anymore (Years after I had him, one of my 6th grade teachers actually passed by me in the hall and said, "Hey, Eich, I heard you're not crazy anymore!  Good for you!")  I had to wake up and deal with the problems I had caused myself, and, worst of all, live under the terrible first impressions I had given my peers and learn from scratch how to be a regular person.  I ended up feeling a lot of hate during that.  Thankfully, I had already made a faithful friend, and he helped me out by just being there, and showing other people I wasn't so crazy.  I owe him a lot.

And I've always been wondering what happens to those crazy and not very bright boys when they grow up, but I would never believe they can change so much. It always seemed to me that they never change, but learn to hide their nature and pretend to be nice guys to be accepted by their social groups. I'm glad to know I was wrong.

[hushpiper]

See what I mean? Common!

I saw a thing on tumblr a while back, one of those self-care posts that get passed around there (the tumblr community recognizes, happily, how many of their number have that sort of trouble) that sort of illustrated the problem with phones for me: the poster was basically recommending that if you're calling someone who is expecting bad news, text them first to say why you're calling. Because otherwise, for all they know, you could be calling to tell them their dad just died. Every ring of the phone becomes something to dread, something to panic over and scramble to try to get somewhere private so that they can freak out if needed, just in case. If you text to warn them ahead of time? No need.

Phone communication just has so many problems. The audio quality is generally crap, so even those who don't have language processing problems will often have trouble understanding the person on the other end; you're expected to answer in real time; if you're calling someone else, you know that they're socially expected to pick up but have no way of knowing whether you're interrupting someone; you can't see the person while they're talking, so you're divorced from a lot of social cues, while the audio quality also makes it hard to accurately judge what social cues are present in their voice... As a technology for communication, it's just very flawed in the area of usability.

I would say that the society has more or less failed by forcing some weird standards and failing to provide alternatives.

*purrs* Yes, talk to me more about the rapid pace of technology and how society has so far failed to cope with the social implications thereof.

[hushpiper]

(sorry for the double-post--so much to saaaaaay!)

What got me into a depressive state of mind that lasted most of my teens and part of my childhood was being treated very differently. When I first moved here, I was quite young, so I was able to go to school with other children my age at the same time as they first started going to school - no one thought that a girl who didn't speak English and later spoke it with an accent and a little oddly and never spoke it with her family was weird, because it was a small school and no one to tell them differently. I grew up with an illusion that yes, my family was different, but it didn't matter, and people wouldn't treat me or my family any differently because of it. Unfortunately that illusion was shattered. And even more unfortunately it was shattered by people I had rather grown to trust - not peers, but adults. Cue several years of reclusive behaviour, dropping of friendships and activities because they didn't really matter, onset of severe dislike of this place, keeping even people who did care about me at arms length, and lack of enthusiasm in practically everything except for art and books. I also developed a distrust of people. It also didn't help that I was a very smart child, and that in some respects I was smarter and more mature than quite a few adults - which unfortunately led to a tendency to look down onto others slightly, and a tendency to be very cynical. I never let either of those show if I could help it, but thinking like that doesn't help anyone relationships-wise or health-wise, and it's erroneous to boot.

Anyway. Due to distrust on one side, and a desire not to worry those closest to me on the other (and hence never voicing complaints that could have perhaps alerted them), it was quite hard for me to get out of that. I don't think it was ever as bad as described here or in the comic, but it was ... a period of time in which I couldn't enjoy anything except escapism, and there were times where even that didn't work and I was in complete apathetic slumps. I only got out of it due to a very determined friend, haha. He showed me that really, truly, not all people are two-faced and shallow and weak. I don't think I'd ever had a friend like him before, except for in primary school - one that would bug me and bug me until I'd talk about something or do something or see something. It's a bit cheesy saying it ... he was colour-blind, but gave me the ability to see colour in my world again. I didn't even realise there was something wrong with me until I experienced living without it. It was ... well, it made me determine that I never ever want to go back to those times or mindset ever again. Never. It's hard sometimes, but I'm trying now, and trying when knowing what's wrong is so much different than trying without knowing anything except that something is wrong somewhere.

So yeah. I'm glad you've got the courage to do something about it, hushpiper. I wish you, and everyone else here who needs it, lots of strength~

Ugh! Warning: gonna hug you now. *squeeze* Kids can be cruel, but when adults get in on it... that's a whole different level of betrayal. I'm glad you got out of that bad headspace. It's so often that way--that you can't really understand how bad things are until they get better. And then you look back and end up shocked by how bad it actually was. Unfortunately, in my experience, while things never do get quite that bad again, some of it does have a way of creeping up on you. You just have to weed it out where you find it, and cope, and keep coping.

I turned 14, and... I'm not really sure why or how, but I was just different all of a sudden.  I don't remember what happened to me to change me, but I simply wasn't the same person anymore

*blinks* I hope this doesn't seem irreverent or intrusive (and I will back right off if it is), but I'm very curious as to what did happen there. Do you have the sense that something happened, or that it just came out of nowhere? And if the former--well, missing memories are a thing that I have some experience with. *looks at you* Did anything in particular change in your life?

[Fen Shen]

Thank you everyone for talking so openly and honestly about all these really personal subjects. I'm lucky to say that I've never experienced a depression myself, but the subject is on my mind all the time at the moment because my sister just started looking for a therapy. My family and I are on the one hand very glad she is finally looking for professional help. It is so hard to see her being in that state without being able to help - and we've tried to help in many ways over the last few years. On the other hand, it is still a strange thought for us since there is nobody else in the family who got psychical treatment and we don't have any experiences with it.

[Oskutin]

That is... really mean. I've seen kids being bullied because of their appearence, their manner, their weight or height, or just because some brany kid happened to dislike them a lot and let the whole other pack on them - but I've never seen a case when a kid bas threated differently because of ethnicity. When we were th the 4th grade, a half-african girl had joined us, and she spoke Russian very badly, with a strong accent, yet nobody had ever been mean to her. Well, maybe we were old enough to understand that your race or nationality doesn't change what person you are.

Well, judging by what is currently happening in Ukraine and the quality of discussion in many news paper's comment sections, I wouldn't say so...
Could even say that childs are smarter than adults.

Thank you everyone for talking so openly and honestly about all these really personal subjects. I'm lucky to say that I've never experienced a depression myself, but the subject is on my mind all the time at the moment because my sister just started looking for a therapy. My family and I are on the one hand very glad she is finally looking for professional help. It is so hard to see her being in that state without being able to help - and we've tried to help in many ways over the last few years. On the other hand, it is still a strange thought for us since there is nobody else in the family who got psychical treatment and we don't have any experiences with it.

I never had depression either, i just have these sleeping 'problems' and this telephone thing and other common introvert things

[Oskutin]

*purrs* Yes, talk to me more about the rapid pace of technology and how society has so far failed to cope with the social implications thereof.

Rapid pace of technology could help making more choices and better services and easen the burearcy, but seems that they still prefer the old ways...
Many public sector internet based services tends to be very messy and inconvenient to use and they don't have any alternatives...
In example:
During summer when I had to move doctors apointment by couple of days and i wasn't in the town during that time and i didn't want to use phone. So I logged on the health services webservice with my bank account (strong indentification), but only think what i was able to do there with my appointment was to view it's date and cancel it, nothing else...
So I had to call there to get my appointment rescheduled, but they had those automatic systems where you have to press number x if you wanted to do that or that, and my phone never worked well with them... Later i found another number where i could call directly to human.


I'd say that society is defined after/by those who are the loudest, not by those who knows how to really make things better for all.
There has been some researches that democracy (and many other systems) only produce average leaders who basically only repeat same old cliches:
http://www.livescience.com/18706-people-smart-democracy.html
Seems that the most capable leaders and thinkers are not interested joining the lawmaking process or they fail to get enough support.

"very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is"

[kjeks]

I just... Don't like calling people. It's not that I'm scared, it doesn't even make me feel strange. I can't understand it. Talking in person is - usually - okay, and any form of written communication is just fine.

Same here. That's kind of hard, because I have to phone parents a lot and I really hate it talking to them, but not being able to look at their faces or hands. Also in a call there is always fear, that the other might end the call abruptly, so I try to acoid calling people, even my family, though we have a good relationship. I rather drive 4 hours to them then just being on the phone for an hour.

[Lenny]

That is... really mean. I've seen kids being bullied because of their appearence, their manner, their weight or height, or just because some brany kid happened to dislike them a lot and let the whole other pack on them - but I've never seen a case when a kid bas threated differently because of ethnicity. When we were th the 4th grade, a half-african girl had joined us, and she spoke Russian very badly, with a strong accent, yet nobody had ever been mean to her. Well, maybe we were old enough to understand that your race or nationality doesn't change what person you are.

And it is great to have such a good friend  I believe that the life itself - or a destiny, or whatever you may call it - dealt the cards this way so you met him and became friends, as a reward for all those depressing things in the past. Okay, it's early morning here and I'm turning quite lyric.

I'd rather say that you were young enough to know that it doesn't matter. I've never had troubles with children because of my nationality, nor even with teens (though they do tend to ask really stupid questions, like "umm... ah... erm... I thought all Africans were black?"). It would have been easier if it were children or teens, I could have handled that easily. Adults, though. Whole other kettle of fish, especially when you yourself are not an adult, or even near it.

In my case, I'd say God sent him in my way (or me in his way). It really is a wonderful thing to have a friend like him

Ugh! Warning: gonna hug you now. *squeeze* Kids can be cruel, but when adults get in on it... that's a whole different level of betrayal. I'm glad you got out of that bad headspace. It's so often that way--that you can't really understand how bad things are until they get better. And then you look back and end up shocked by how bad it actually was. Unfortunately, in my experience, while things never do get quite that bad again, some of it does have a way of creeping up on you. You just have to weed it out where you find it, and cope, and keep coping.

*return hug* Mmm. It truly is. Especially as you feel so completely powerless. There's nothing you, as a child, can do about it. You could say something to them, but you can see in their eyes that they know it already, and have weighed you and your family and found you irrelevant compared with whatever thing they gained in the situation - and have excused this with the fact that you are not like them, so do not count, and are even dangerous because of it.

Mmm, it's a little like an addiction, isn't it? You gave in once, the temptation never goes away. It seems to, but then up it pops again, sometimes at the least expected times - and the most inconvenient ones, too. And so you keep on fighting. Sometimes when you look back it's a "Wow, if I could go through something that bad and still come out intact, I could probably handle anything" but other times it's an "I could never go through that again, not ever - please God, don't let me get into those circumstances again".

*Urge to hug... rising*
I completely get most of that, being a pariah through most of childhood, myself, though for different reasons.  I was just crazy and stupid.  I nearly failed every class I took, from 1st to 8th grade, and I had no idea how to behave.  I turned 14, and... I'm not really sure why or how, but I was just different all of a sudden.  I don't remember what happened to me to change me, but I simply wasn't the same person anymore (Years after I had him, one of my 6th grade teachers actually passed by me in the hall and said, "Hey, Eich, I heard you're not crazy anymore!  Good for you!")  I had to wake up and deal with the problems I had caused myself, and, worst of all, live under the terrible first impressions I had given my peers and learn from scratch how to be a regular person.  I ended up feeling a lot of hate during that.  Thankfully, I had already made a faithful friend, and he helped me out by just being there, and showing other people I wasn't so crazy.  I owe him a lot.

Friends like that are the absolute best. I'm glad things changed, even though it must have been incredibly hard - the Eich we know is a really cool person.


Okay. Depressing things aside, I've just come back from a taekwondo grading. Newly graded yellow 2 belt here! (Yes, that is a low grade, but I've only been doing it for 6 months, haha.) I feel very happy that I'm not stuck doing basic pattern and wearing a colourless belt anymore

[curiosity]

It would have been easier if it were children or teens, I could have handled that easily. Adults, though. Whole other kettle of fish, especially when you yourself are not an adult, or even near it.

I've recently found out that it is true. Different reason, but a betrayal is still a betrayal. So... I can imagine how you feel. Wish you'll never have to live through sometinh like that again.
(By the way, I'm shallow enough myself to think that all Afrikans are tanned)

Well, judging by what is currently happening in Ukraine and the quality of discussion in many news paper's comment sections, I wouldn't say so...

Let me just tell that it was ten yeras ago, when nationality issues weren't even thought of. Heck, if someone told anyone of us back then that someday there'll be happening some nonsense like that, we would laugh that nutcase in the face.
_{I don't want to talk any more of this in public, so if you are somehow intersted, fell free to PM. Sorry.}

[Nimphy]

Okay. Depressing things aside, I've just come back from a taekwondo grading. Newly graded yellow 2 belt here! (Yes, that is a low grade, but I've only been doing it for 6 months, haha.) I feel very happy that I'm not stuck doing basic pattern and wearing a colourless belt anymore

Happy about you, Lenny! You'll get the next one in no time!

Me, I have some shiny new bruises on my left arm, as I apparently use only that to parry any upcoming punches in those self-defense lessons I mentioned. Two are purple and one is greenish-purple, so they're not too bad. But I just realized that bruises hurt a lot. I have had a lack of trombocites since the age of three, so I always had lots of bruises, and never realized they hurt. I lived with them daily, why would they hurt me? Now it's been a while since the last time I had a bruise and I just realized that they actually hurt 

[Hrollo]

Something weird happened last night (well, technically, last morning).

I was in bed and couldn't sleep, mulling over thoughts —that's a normal occurence for me, nothing weird at that point.

I was following some tangent about the spelling of vowels in French, and then, something about long vowels… but then there was some noise outside my room (this was in the early morning) and suddenly I not only completely lost my train of thought, but also temporarily lost the ability to form any coherent verbal thought… instead my thoughts were being replaced by visual white noise; I tried hard to find back what I was thinking about, but instead I was seeing what I can best describes as a lot of hatchings, like, densely packed sowilo runes… I was not asleep, and this wasn't a hallucination either, this was something I was visualising in my mind, in lieu of thoughts, while still fully awake and aware of my environment; but appart from a few isolated words that popped here and there, I was at that point rendered incapable of complex verbal thought, instead being reduced to raw feelings.

That was not really pleasant, it was rather scary and frustrating; though I think after a while I just fell asleep from mental exhaustion.

Someone suggested I accidentally entered a meditative state. Well if that's what mediation's like, I hope it doesn't happen again.

[hushpiper]

Something weird happened last night (well, technically, last morning).

I was in bed and couldn't sleep, mulling over thoughts —that's a normal occurence for me, nothing weird at that point.

I was following some tangent about the spelling of vowels in French, and then, something about long vowels… but then there was some noise outside my room (this was in the early morning) and suddenly I not only completely lost my train of thought, but also temporarily lost the ability to form any coherent verbal thought… instead my thoughts were being replaced by visual white noise; I tried hard to find back what I was thinking about, but instead I was seeing what I can best describes as a lot of hatchings, like, densely packed sowilo runes… I was not asleep, and this wasn't a hallucination either, this was something I was visualising in my mind, in lieu of thoughts, while still fully awake and aware of my environment; but appart from a few isolated words that popped here and there, I was at that point rendered incapable of complex verbal thought, instead being reduced to raw feelings.

That was not really pleasant, it was rather scary and frustrating; though I think after a while I just fell asleep from mental exhaustion.

Someone suggested I accidentally entered a meditative state. Well if that's what mediation's like, I hope it doesn't happen again.

Hmm! Well I don't know that I'd call that a meditative state exactly--proper meditation produces a very specific, controlled sort of mental state that is not at all what you experienced--but it's some kind of altered state of consciousness. It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that you were laying in bed not-sleeping at the time--that's when most natural altered-consciousness incidents happen. "Hypnogogia" is the word for it, I believe.

That's happened to me before though--it's like suddenly your brain speaks a different language, one that your conscious mind can't interpret. It is actually a form of hallucination, just not a visual/auditory/outwardly-sensory one. Sometimes they just happen, more often they're triggered by something--stress, an emotional crisis (which you can have without being aware of it btw *points to the conversations of the past few pages*), a change in body chemistry like being sick or changing your diet or (in women) hormone changes depending on the time of month. Going through a growth spurt, being deficient in some substance your body needs, the changes in neurotransmitter levels that come with being under some sort of stress... Catch my drift?