Author Topic: Finnish learning thread!  (Read 83937 times)

Bobriha

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #255 on: June 28, 2015, 02:56:48 AM »
Ah, I didn't guess you were answering my question, sorry!
Jo tekin was supposed to mean I already did. Hm, jo olen tehnyt (I already have done) could be more appropriate...
I used this recipe http://www.kotikokki.net/reseptit/nayta/10880/Marjapiirakka/ There are actually hundreds of marjapiirakka recipes. For mine I used berries from our local species of strawberry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria_viridis. (I should admit, removing sepals from about 1 l of pea-sized berries was a real pain in all parts of body :) ) Anyway, I have got pretty decent cake finally. The only side note - you may probably want to powder your dough with some starch before filling it with berries. I didn't and it has come a bit wet.
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Kuuskytkolme

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #256 on: June 28, 2015, 05:06:05 AM »
Kermaviili is is a type of sour cream, although its fat percent is usually at most 10%. It's viili made from cream as the name implies (kerma = cream).

Kermaviili on hapankerman tyyppi, vaikkakin sen rasvaprosentti on yleensä enintään 10%. Se on viili joka on tehty kermasta, kuten nimikin antaa ymmärtää.

I already did (it) = [minä] tein (sen) jo

I think so? = Luulen niin?
I'd think so? = Luulisin niin?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 07:04:58 AM by Kuuskytkolme »
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Ann Marie

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #257 on: June 28, 2015, 06:29:24 AM »
Ah, I didn't guess you were answering my question, sorry!
Jo tekin was supposed to mean I already did. Hm, jo olen tehnyt (I already have done) could be more appropriate...
I used this recipe http://www.kotikokki.net/reseptit/nayta/10880/Marjapiirakka/ There are actually hundreds of marjapiirakka recipes. For mine I used berries from our local species of strawberry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria_viridis. (I should admit, removing sepals from about 1 l of pea-sized berries was a real pain in all parts of body :) ) Anyway, I have got pretty decent cake finally. The only side note - you may probably want to powder your dough with some starch before filling it with berries. I didn't and it has come a bit wet.

Yes, my attempts to use Finnish are confusing, aren't they.  XD

Such tiny strawberries!  Cute!  Um, but yes, I can see how they'd be hard to work with.  The cake (I'm sorry but that is not pie, whatever they call it) looks delicious, though.  The recipe you linked doesn't call for kermaviili...

Kermaviili .... Kervaviili

Er.  Why are they spelled different?
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Kuuskytkolme

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #258 on: June 28, 2015, 07:03:38 AM »
Because I don't know how to type. I fixed the typo.
Hello, I am number 63 and I love parentheses.

Bobriha

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #259 on: June 28, 2015, 12:41:43 PM »
Kermaviili is is a type of sour cream, although its fat percent is usually at most 10%. It's viili made from cream as the name implies (kerma = cream).

I already did (it) = [minä] tein (sen) jo
Kuuskytkolme, thanks for explanation!
Aaand yes, consonant gradation... I wonder if this thing will ever become natural for me.

Yes, my attempts to use Finnish are confusing, aren't they.  XD

Such tiny strawberries!  Cute!  Um, but yes, I can see how they'd be hard to work with.  The cake (I'm sorry but that is not pie, whatever they call it) looks delicious, though.  The recipe you linked doesn't call for kermaviili...

Just keep going! The more you use your Finnish the sooner it stops being confusing! (May be applied to any language).
Well, that was the only recipe that didn't call for kermaviili :). I, too, think the cake is more appropriate word for it but after all it taste that matters, not name.
By the way, things like that happen with different cousins' terms. I am not that advanced in Finnish cousin (not advanced at all, to be precise), so I can't recall any matching examples in it. But, say, in Russian English word pie is often translated with word пирог (pirog). But actually what Russians call пирог is only one sort of pies, the one that requires dough for at least bottom. Sheep herder's pie in Russian terms will not be пирог but запеканка (zapiekanka). I heard sometimes that was a source of confusion for Russians in English-speaking countries.
Let's assume Finns may recognize as piirakka some dishes English-speakers don't recognize as a pie and Russian-speakers don't recognize as пирог.
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Pessi

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #260 on: June 29, 2015, 02:28:14 AM »
:uk: Here is the Finnish Wikipedia article on piirakka. It states piirakka is a baked good that has a crust made of dough and some filling. Piirakka may be open (dough only in the bottom and possibly sides) or closed (dough over the filling or all around it).

But not all baked things with dough around filling are piirakka. There is also pasteija that's made of voitaikina (literally "butter dough") and filled usually with something salty (meat, eggs, fish, you name it). My purely subjective view is that the dirrerence between piirakka and pasteija is the dough used and the fact that most piirakka are baked in a mold while pasteija are baked on a baking tray.

Then there is also lörtsy. It's not actually piirakka or pasteija, it's a half moon shaped flat, greasy, floppy pastry made of doughnut dough and filled usually with meat or apple jam. It's a common street food especially in Savo.

This is btw going to be a very good blueberry summer. That means we'll soon be baking mustikkapiirakka, blueberry pie, almost every day =)

:finland: Tässä on suomenkielisen wikipedian artikkeli piirakasta. Sen mukaan piirakka on leivonnainen, jossa on taikinakuori ja täyte. Piirakka voi olla avoin (taikinaa vain pohjalla ja mahdollisesti reunoilla) tai kuorellinen (taikina täytteen päällä tai joka puolella sen ympärillä).

Mutta eivät kaikki leivonnaiset, joissa on taikina täyttteen ympärillä, ole piirakoita. On myös pasteija, joka on tehty voitaikinasta (kirjaimellisesti "butter dough") ja täytetty yleensä jollain suolaisella (lihalla, munilla, kalalla, mitä nyt kukakin haluaa). Minun täysin subjektiivinen näkemykseni on, että piirakan ja pasteijan erottaa taikina sekä se, että piirakka paistetaan vuoassa kun taas pasteija paistetaan uunipellillä.

Sitten on lörtsy. Se ei ole varsinaisesti piirakka tai pasteija, se on puolikuun muotoinen litteä, rasvainen, lerppu leivonnainen, joka on tehty munkkitaikinasta ja täytetty yleensä lihalla tai omenahillolla. Se on tavallista katuruokaa erityisesti Savossa.

Tästä on muuten tulossa todella hyvä mustikkakesä. Se tarkoittaa, että pian leivomme mustikkapiirakkaa, blueberry pie, melkein joka päivä =)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 02:30:06 AM by Pessi »
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M4K3SH1FT

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #261 on: June 29, 2015, 05:08:56 PM »
Entäs joulutorttu? Vai onko se enemmänkin ruotsalainen juttu? Kuitenkin en malta odottaa, että pääsen maistamaan lörtsyjä taas! :)

What about the christmas tart? Or Is it more of a swedish thing? Anyway, I can't wait to eat lörtsys again! :)

Also hello everyone! Another native finn here! I hope to be of help.

Ann Marie

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #262 on: June 29, 2015, 11:49:17 PM »
Tervetuloa! 

Mitä on lörtsys? 

I'm glad you're here!  Some of us (read: me) need lots of help.  XD
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Pessi

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #263 on: June 30, 2015, 03:28:40 AM »
:finland: Torttu on tietysti oma lukunsa. Se kai määrittyy pitkälti taikinan mukaan, esim. kääretorttu ja runebergintorttuhan ovat huokoista sokerikakkumaista taikinaa - olkoonkin, että runebergintortun taikina on mausteiltaan ihan omanlaisensa. Mutta joulutorttu... kai se nimi tosiaan on suora laina ruotsista (ja varmaan niiden leipominenkin on ruotsalainen kulttuurilaina), koska ne kyllä tehdään voitaikinasta ihan niin kuin pasteijatkin. Ehkä niitä pitäisikin sanoa joulupasteijoiksi ;)

:uk: Torttu is of course a story of it's own. I guess it's defined by the dough, for example kääretorttu ("swiss roll") and runebergintorttu ("Runeberg's tart") are made of spongy, suger cake like dough - even if runebergintorttu's dough has it's very own spices. But joulutorttu ("christmas tart")... I guess the name really is a straight loan from Swedish (as well as baking them is probably a Swedish cultural loan), because they are nonthless made of voitaikina ("butter dough") just like pasteija. Perhaps they should actually be called joulupasteija ("christmas pasty") ;)

Ann Marie, here is a picture of lörtsy (a sweet one, it has even sugar on it).

Bobriha, sorry I skipped your poem earlier. I like it and somehow most of the small grammar mistakes make it even more "poetic" to me. But if you feel like you want corrections, here goes:

Kukkulan huipulla,
jolle käyn usein,                             This is a very poetic way of saying "onto which I often walk". If you want it to mean "where I visit often", the first word should be jolla (I like it better the way it is)
kukkimisen lopussa on kaunokaiseja, "Kukinnan lopulla ovat kaunokaiset" would be grammatically more correct, but the only actual mistake is the plural of kaunokainen; indefinite form is kaunokaisia, definite form kaunokaiset.
neilikat ovat siis kukkimassa, "kukassa" would be a more correct form
kirjava sepeli on tähdessä,
ja ajuruoho nitoo verkkoja ja solmuja silla. sillä. I love the verb "nitoa" in this context, it makes the nets and knots sound very firm and concrete
Kukkulamme huipuilla
sateisella kesälläkään sateisena kesäkään
ei nurmi kasva.
Kukkulamme huipuilla
kuivassa vuodessakin kuivana vuonnakin
kukkivat vuoroittain
kaunokasit ja neilikat, kauonokaiset
pallo-ohdakkeet sitten, would be more natural in reverse word order, "sitten pallo-ohdakkeet", but totally understandable as it is and can be interpreted as a poetic way to put more emphasis on the word "sitten" ("then")
ja ajuruoho levittää varpuja sepelille.

I really really like the way you paint whole pictures with just a few words.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 03:59:15 AM by Pessi »
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Ann Marie

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #264 on: June 30, 2015, 04:14:41 AM »
niin sitten... Minulla on nälkä, nyt.
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Bobriha

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #265 on: June 30, 2015, 12:42:00 PM »
M4K3SH1FT, tervetuloa!

I guess the name really is a straight loan from Swedish (as well as baking them is probably a Swedish cultural loan), because they are nonthless made of voitaikina ("butter dough") just like pasteija. Perhaps they should actually be called joulupasteija ("christmas pasty") ;)
Tradition: beats logic since Stone Age! ;D

Pessi, kuitenkin minä tahdon oikaisuja ja kiitoksia paljon niistä!
Ne näyttävät selvästi etten osaa käyttää essiivia. Vaikka minun pitäisi jo... (jne, aivan kuin tavallisesti).

Quote
I really really like the way you paint whole pictures with just a few words.
Well, I used to write some hokkus (in Russian, so there is no point to show them somewhere here).
Seriously, strongly recommend it to anyone who wants improve their skill in describing things! By hokku here I mean not any random verses put in 3 lines, but those written according the rules, of course.

Ann Marie, maybe we should stop chatting on cousin then. Hanger is awful thing. (Just kidding! Why would we even) :)
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Bobriha

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #266 on: July 04, 2015, 07:57:53 AM »
Double post, hm... Anyway, here is my question:
Has päin honkia any literal translation? I understand that as a set phrase it may not necessary have one, but still?
As my dictionary says, honka is sort of a big old pine tree (so honkia would be plural partitive?) and päin depending on case of it's object may mean either from or towards. I don't know how it combines, if combines, with partitive, though.
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Kuuskytkolme

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #267 on: July 04, 2015, 04:12:43 PM »
The literal translation would be "to the direction of/towards the pine trees".

If the word it's combined with means "from" by itself, päin means "from the direction of", for example:

Ääni tuli vasemmalta päin.
The sound came from somewhere left.

Ääni kuului talosta päin.
The sound came from the direction of the house.

I don't know the best way to translate it, but in both of those cases the sentence would work without the word päin. Adding it makes the direction more fuzzy.

In all other cases it's "to the direction of"

Eteenpäin sanoi mummo mäessä.
Forward said the grandma in a slope.

On aika lähteä kotiin päin.
It's time to go home.

As you can see, some of those are compound words. Have fund figuring out witch ones, I have no idea if there are any rules.

I should not write grammar posts while tired, sorry if this doesn't make sense or if there are mistakes.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 04:49:40 PM by Kuuskytkolme »
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Laufey

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #268 on: July 04, 2015, 04:28:49 PM »
Double post, hm... Anyway, here is my question:
Has päin honkia any literal translation? I understand that as a set phrase it may not necessary have one, but still?
As my dictionary says, honka is sort of a big old pine tree (so honkia would be plural partitive?) and päin depending on case of it's object may mean either from or towards. I don't know how it combines, if combines, with partitive, though.

A literal translation would be "(that went smashing) into the pines", meaning something made such a belly-flop that it was akin of it smashing to a bunch of trees. A total fail, if you like. The partitive is a default declension form if you use the word "päin" (= into, towards) - "päin taloa" = hitting a house, "valoa päin" = towards the light, "aitaa päin" = toward a fence/crashing to a fence, "päin seiniä" = smashing to the walls (means the same as päin honkia, to utterly fail something). I'm not entirely sure why plural is used, but perhaps to further stress how bad the failing was, because technically speaking you could say "päin honkaa" but it just doesn't sound as impressive. Hitting one tree? Well that's just to be expected. Hitting many in one go? Ok now you've done it.

The only occasions I can think of where you wouldn't use partitive are set phrases such as "parhain päin" = in the best imaginable way, but here the translation of "päin" would also change.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 04:30:37 PM by Laufey »
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Pessi

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Re: Finnish learning thread!
« Reply #269 on: July 04, 2015, 06:12:36 PM »
I'd like to add that honka is actually a dead, dried up but still standing ("kelo") pine. A big pine used to be called petäjä and a small, young pine was called mänty, but nowadays mänty is the common name for this species of tree. The different names were important in the past times when the pine wood could be used for different things depending whether it was from mänty, petäjä or honka.
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