Linguistics

[JoB]

where would "Finland" originate?

I think we already had that topic, but I don't remember where ...

Anyway: Presto.

[olavi]

Moreover from Wikipedia article on Finns:

... the etymologies of the names remain equally sketchy. Such names as Fenni, Phinnoi, Finnum, and Skrithfinni / Scridefinnum appear in a few written texts starting from about two millennia ago in association with peoples located in a northern part of Europe, but the real meaning of these terms is debatable. The earliest mentions of this kind are usually interpreted to have meant Fennoscandian hunter-gatherers whose closest successors in modern terms would be the Sami people. It has been suggested that this non-Uralic ethnonym is of Germanic language origin and related to such words as finthan (Old High German) 'find', 'notice'; fanthian (Old High German) 'check', 'try'; and fendo (Old High German) and vende (Old Middle German) 'pedestrian', 'wanderer'. Another etymological interpretation associates this ethnonym with fen in a more toponymical approach.

If I remember correctly the word first appears in the writings of the Roman historian Tacitus where he placed tribe called Fenni somewhere around modern Latvia or Estonia. Without a doubt he got the name through the germanic tribes since direct contact seems almost impossible. This notion supports the traditional explanation, to my knowledge, that is it was a name given to the finnic tribes by other European peoples. Suomi is the Finno-ugric word which nobody propably understood (like most still haven't got a clue about Finnish words without studying it ) and therefore they had to invent a new one that would fit better the phonotactics their language had. What that (possibly) Germanic word then meant can be guessed in the manner of the above quote, but I don't think we'll ever find out that for sure.

[Fimbulvarg]

On the topic of the etymology of the name for Germany: This map sorts it nicely into groups based on theoretical origins. Apparently the names used by Lithuania and Latvia are the less obvious ones.

[Solovei]

On the topic of the etymology of the name for Germany: This map sorts it nicely into groups based on theoretical origins. Apparently the names used by Lithuania and Latvia are the less obvious ones.

While the similarity of the names used in Norway/Sweden/Iceland doesn't surprise me, it's interesting that Finland of all places would be the only other place that has a name similar to the actual German word for itself.

[Pessi]

*Ahem*

The ethymology of the name Lalli is not fuzzy. It's one version of Lauri, which in it's turn is short of Laurentius (nowadays more common forms of the name are Lassi and Lasse). Thus the Lalli of the legend was clearly a baptised christian, otherwise he would have had a Finnish name instead of one of Latin origin. The name of his wife Kerttu (=Gertrud) speaks for this too.

The reason for the murder of bishop Henrik was quite probably the fact that as a representative of the organized church that was gaining a foothold in a country where christianity had thus far been spread only by wandering priests and monks, Henrik demanded his due tithe. From Lalli and Kerttu's point of view he was simply a thief robbing them of their much needed food and animal fodder in the middle of winter. Is it a wonder that Lalli went after the robber and killed him? He was simply defending his people and taking back what belonged to them.

The church of course made it's own version of the story, and Henrik is unfortunately still our "national saint" though in my opinion that honor should belong to Lalli.


About the other names: Yes, Onni means luck and happiness in modern Finnish, but originally it was synonymous with the word osa, "part". It meant literally the part of the meat and other eatables that a member of a hunting party got from the animal that had been killed together. So Onni, "luck, happiness", means literally having lots of food.

And yes, Tuuri also means luck nowadays, both in Finnish and in Swedish (tur), but the meaning comes originally from a longer wording for lucky/safe journey. I find it very fitting to have such a name on a journey to the Silent Lands =)

Taru is synonymous with the Scandinavian name Saga. (Lord of the Rings btw is Sagan om Ringen in Swedish and Taru Sormusten Herrasta in Finnish). There's also a synonymous name Satu, but it refers to fairy tale. Taru is a more serious kind of story: a legend, a saga.

[FrogEater]

Thanks to all of you, exotic (as seen from here, down South) Finns ! You do help in getting a better understanding of the Minnaverse. Albeit your posts are not translations strictly speaking, they bring something relevant. Perhaps should we find a better, broader name for the thread ? If there is something interesting and relevant to know about, say, Mora, swedish forumists might perhaps contribute ?

[Revontulet]

A place where we can talk about the roots and meanings of certain names in different languages.  Kind of like the Etymology topic but for names!

[mithrysc]

I love this topic too much. Going to throw out Behind the Name as my go-to source for all things name-related, while I try to figure out how to discuss the etymology of my name without actually revealing it .

[kjeks]

I'll start with Lalli.

Akkording to the Nordic Names Wiki Lalli (male) is a variation of "Lalle" which is a petform of the name Laurentius. This dates back to Latin and means "guy from Laurentum (place in ancient Roman Empire).

The Female meaning is more fascinating as it is a variation of "Lalla" which is a petform of five different names:
Laila (see Láilá), refers to the Sami name Áilá, which is a variation of Helga dating back to the old norse meaning of Helgi (male name): Meaining someone dedicated to the old gods.
Haralda (see *HarjawaldaR) (Ruler of an army)
Olava, female Variation of the old norse name Anulai?aR (male) meaning: ancestor/inheritance (Anu and Leif)
Laura, short form of Laurentia see Laurentius
Lahja, finnish origin, meaning "gift"

I like the female origin referring to Láilá best, as finnish mages are dedicated to the old gods if I remember correctly.

[Revontulet]

That's really cool, kex.  Here, I'll tell you about my username????. Revontulet is a Finnish name.  I think it comes from "Repo," the nickname for fox(kettu) and "tuli," which means fire.  The literal translation is "fox fire."  This probably refers to the Northern Lights, which were explained by the Finns as the result of foxes running through the snowy landscapes, swishing their tails along, creating sparks that were the Northern Lights.  It's a really pretty name, when you think about it, and has a really cool backstory, just like Láilá does.

[Revontulet]

In Italian, when you mess up, you say "ops!"   Which is the Italianized way of saying "oops."

[Fimbulvarg]

In Italian, when you mess up, you say "ops!"   Which is the Italianized way of saying "oops."

Ah. In Norwegian we say "**************" when we mess up. "Ops" is also an alternative.

[kjeks]

That's really cool, kex.  Here, I'll tell you about my username????. Revontulet is a Finnish name.  I think it comes from "Repo," the nickname for fox(kettu) and "tuli," which means fire.  The literal translation is "fox fire."  This probably refers to the Northern Lights, which were explained by the Finns as the result of foxes running through the snowy landscapes, swishing their tails along, creating sparks that were the Northern Lights.  It's a really pretty name, when you think about it, and has a really cool backstory, just like Láilá does.

This meaning is nice. Also I like the singer of the russian Band called the same name . Her voice is slightly different from Tarja (whose name is a finnish version of a persian name meaning possession) Turunen's but her manner is much nicer.

[Revontulet]

I just decided to look up Minna's name.  Minna is an Old Germanic name, which comes from Wilhemina.  It means "determined protector."  As for her last name, Sundberg, I think berg, is a Nordic variation of the German "burg," which means mountain, mount, or cliff.   In German, burg is the name for city, and a few German words, such as bürgermeister(mayor).  As for "Sund," in Swedish, it means sound/healthy, or it can mean a sound or strait(referring to bodies of water).  In Faroese, it also means sound or channel(water).  So her last name could mean" (of the) on the sound/strait/ mountain on the sound/strait.  So all in all, it's "determined protector of the mountain/city on the sound/strait( It's cool how the first name ties in with the last, although it's probably a coincidence).  BUT, I could be wrong.

[Clayres]

I just decided to look up Minna's name.  Minna is an Old Germanic name, which comes from Wilhemina.  It means "determined protector."  As for her last name, Sundberg, I think berg, is a Nordic variation of the German "burg," which means mountain, mount, or cliff.   In German, burg is the name for city, and a few German words, such as bürgermeister(mayor).  As for "Sund," in Swedish, it means sound/healthy, or it can mean a sound or strait(referring to bodies of water).  In Faroese, it also means sound or channel(water).  So her last name could mean" (of the) on the sound/strait/ mountain on the sound/strait.  So all in all, it's "determined protector of the mountain/city on the sound/strait( It's cool how the first name ties in with the last, although it's probably a coincidence).  BUT, I could be wrong.

Actually, "Berg" is German for "mountain", and "Burg" means "castle" or "fortress" (yep, there's a lot of towns who have those in their name, simply because they were build near a castle or mountain, or, well, hill), while the "Bürger" in "Bürgermeister" means "citizen", which makes that person the "master of the citizens", but considering there were many citizens in castles, the etymologic origin of "Burg" and "Bürger" might be the same.
Well, at least you got the translation in Minna's name right.