Author Topic: Linguistics  (Read 50823 times)

Revontulet

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2014, 04:07:20 PM »
Actually, "Berg" is German for "mountain", and "Burg" means "castle" or "fortress" (yep, there's a lot of towns who have those in their name, simply because they were build near a castle or mountain, or, well, hill), while the "Bürger" in "Bürgermeister" means "citizen", which makes that person the "master of the citizens", but considering there were many citizens in castles, the etymologic origin of "Burg" and "Bürger" might be the same.
Well, at least you got the translation in Minna's name right.

Hey, thanks for correcting me!  As I put in the post, I wasn't really sure about if it was right or not(my German is very rudimentary).  However, by translating Burg as "city," I was implying that the fact that in the Middle Ages, the cites that started to pop up were called burgs, because they were built within fortifications to defend against invaders was well known.  Hills and mountains were also strategic locations for cities and/or castles, so that may be why the two terms are related.  That's why the citizens were called Bürgers, and as you said, the master of the citizens, or mayor, was the "Bürgermeister."  Despite that, it's great to have someone to discuss this with!  I love languages and names, and sometimes I find we take our names for granted without finding out what they mean.  After all, in ancient times, names were closely tied to a person's destiny( like in the Bible, the name 'Shem," one of Noah's sons from whom the Jewish people  descended means "name" in Hebrew, because the line of Shem, according to the Bible, is the line from which modern Jews and eventually, Christians came from.  In fact, Jews are also known as Semites, which is an abbreviated version of Shemites, which the Jews were previously referred to as). 
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Revontulet

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2014, 04:15:34 PM »
If anyone is interested....

Apparently the Italian word for "hello" ("ciao") comes from the Venetian s'ciavo, which in return comes from latin sclavus, AKA "slave". When meeting someone, by greeting them, you put yourself at their service. Now, of course, "ciao" simply means "hello".

And Shqipëri, shqip, shqiptar (respectively Albania, Albanian (language), Albanian (person)) come from the word shqiponjë - "eagle". Albanians love their eagles.
Or at least that's what everyone tells me and what is commonly told in Albania - some linguists think otherwise. Bah!


Makes sense, especially since in Italian, "schiavo" means slave.  In normal Latin(not Church Latin), the "v" in "sclavus" would have been pronounced as a "w" in English.  Thus, it would be pronounced as "sclawus," so it's easy to imagine why the "v" sound is omitted and the "ai" sounds remotely like a "w" in "ciao."  It probably doesn't sound exactly like a "w" because the Venetian dialect is different from standard Italian in words and pronunciation.  That's pretty cool, huh?
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Clayres

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2014, 04:50:26 PM »
Hey, thanks for correcting me!  As I put in the post, I wasn't really sure about if it was right or not(my German is very rudimentary).  However, by translating Burg as "city," I was implying that the fact that in the Middle Ages, the cites that started to pop up were called burgs, because they were built within fortifications to defend against invaders was well known.  Hills and mountains were also strategic locations for cities and/or castles, so that may be why the two terms are related.  That's why the citizens were called Bürgers, and as you said, the master of the citizens, or mayor, was the "Bürgermeister."  Despite that, it's great to have someone to discuss this with!  I love languages and names, and sometimes I find we take our names for granted without finding out what they mean.  After all, in ancient times, names were closely tied to a person's destiny( like in the Bible, the name 'Shem," one of Noah's sons from whom the Jewish people  descended means "name" in Hebrew, because the line of Shem, according to the Bible, is the line from which modern Jews and eventually, Christians came from.  In fact, Jews are also known as Semites, which is an abbreviated version of Shemites, which the Jews were previously referred to as).
Wow, I'm so glad I joined this community of SSSS readers - I learn new things every day!
And now that you mention it, I think I remember to have heard/read somewhere that the first cities (or what you could consider cities) where indeed fortified, first with wooden piles, later with stone walls, since the environment (and neighbouring peoples) wasn't as friendly as they are today, simply speaking.
But since that is getting a bit off-topic, something about our dear Emil:
his name is derived from the roman name Aemilius, which itself comes from the greek aimylos/aimylios, meaning "charming", "endearing" or "clever".
And I think someone somewhere mentioned it before, but "Västerström" is compunded of the words for west and river/stream/current, resulting again in a geographical origin.
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kjeks

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2014, 05:06:45 PM »
Indeed the German word for "castle" Burg refers to the germanic "burc" which was a mostly fortified safe place. The connection between  Burg und Berg (mountain) is uncertain though some linguists assume that "Burg" in reference to "Berg" was a fortified hollow, so the connection would be of the hight. The similar usage between Burg as castla and city goes back to the 8th century and exists in other languages as well, like borough (Edinborough for example), swedisch borg or gothic baúrgs.

At one of my ethic lessons with the nine year olds we discussed the meanings of their names. I gave them the meaning without knowing to which name these belonged and they had to choose. Most chose something different from their name but liked the meaning nevertheless. I was left with only one sad child out of nine. One girl disliked that her name refered to the ability of talking much to others. 
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FrogEater

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2014, 05:52:27 PM »
About city names : many French cities have 'château' or 'châtel' (North) or 'castel' (South) in their name. Same causes, same effects. :)
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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2014, 06:35:14 PM »
I'll start with Lalli.

Akkording to the Nordic Names Wiki Lalli (male) is a variation of "Lalle" which is a petform of the name Laurentius. This dates back to Latin and means "guy from Laurentum (place in ancient Roman Empire).
I feel like I need to thank you just for linking to that site! *squirrels away for future use* It's always nice to have something to back up BehindTheName, as they aren't always 100% accurate...

Since some people are talking about usernames... Mine is a Russian word meaning "nightingale"... I tried to look up the etymology but sadly couldn't find anything.
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Fimbulvarg

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2014, 06:41:11 PM »
Since some people are talking about usernames... Mine is a Russian word meaning "nightingale"... I tried to look up the etymology but sadly couldn't find anything.
It reminds me of the Scandinavian name Solveig, but the etymology is clearl different so that's just chance.

curiosity

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2014, 06:45:57 PM »
I feel like I need to thank you just for linking to that site! *squirrels away for future use* It's always nice to have something to back up BehindTheName, as they aren't always 100% accurate...

Since some people are talking about usernames... Mine is a Russian word meaning "nightingale"... I tried to look up the etymology but sadly couldn't find anything.

Maybe you would like to look up here? As it is stated, it may originate from a very old adjective naming specific color.
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Solovei

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2014, 06:52:00 PM »
Maybe you would like to look up here? As it is stated, it may originate from a very old adjective naming specific color.

Oh gosh, I feel like an idiot now, I didn't even think to check the russian wiktionary site! (Sorry, had a long day running errands) Thank you, curiosity!
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Sunflower

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2014, 07:57:06 PM »
Makes sense, especially since in Italian, "schiavo" means slave.  In normal Latin(not Church Latin), the "v" in "sclavus" would have been pronounced as a "w" in English.  Thus, it would be pronounced as "sclawus," so it's easy to imagine why the "v" sound is omitted and the "ai" sounds remotely like a "w" in "ciao."  It probably doesn't sound exactly like a "w" because the Venetian dialect is different from standard Italian in words and pronunciation.  That's pretty cool, huh?

Thanks, that's interesting!
"Sclavus" is the medieval Latin term for "slave" because it's derived from Slav -- i.e. Slavic captives and POWs during the Migration Ages.  "Servus" was the classical Latin word for "slave", and gave rise to "serf" and "servant."
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Fimbulvarg

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2014, 04:40:18 AM »
Thanks, that's interesting!
"Sclavus" is the medieval Latin term for "slave" because it's derived from Slav -- i.e. Slavic captives and POWs during the Migration Ages.  "Servus" was the classical Latin word for "slave", and gave rise to "serf" and "servant."
And Servus is still a common Austrian greeting so apparently slaves are still popular.

kjeks

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2014, 05:08:46 AM »
And Servus is still a common Austrian greeting so apparently slaves are still popular.

Austrian, but also Bavarian and in the German Metal scene many use it as well ;). In the younger generations the use has increased replacing the more typical Bavarian "Grüß Gott" (greet god) or "Griaß di!" (dialect für greetings to you).
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JoB

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2014, 08:41:45 AM »
And Servus is still a common Austrian greeting so apparently slaves are still popular.
In the younger generations the use has increased replacing the more typical Bavarian "Grüß Gott" (greet god) [...]
And if I may point that out for the sake of readers in less of a command of the German language, "Servus" is not any more approving of slavery as "how can I be of service" and "Grüß' Gott" is not usually followed by assassination so as to provide an occasion to do so. :P
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FrogEater

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2014, 12:22:34 PM »
That was worth explaining - misunderstandings happen soooo easily ! ;)
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kjeks

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Re: Etymology Thread
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2014, 12:39:30 PM »
Oh yes. Never thought about that.
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