Upcoming new bunny comics i.e. Minna’s next work

[thegreyarea]

Just found the future site for the journeying animals comic on my Twitter feed. I'm going to read an asexual activism post or two to balance out my evening. (Still not a fan of "you're fundamentally broken and God is the solution" doctrines)

Thanks, Cat! I'm also not a fan, but as I said when the Bunny Comic came out, my problem was mostly related with Minna's atitude, refusing to properly warn readers about the religious tone and proselytizing speech.
There's space to make a good story based on religious beliefs, even if I'm still unsure that she will be able to avoid becoming propaganda...
Let's wait and see what turns out.

(BTW her art remains gorgeous!)

(BTW 2: Having animals (without human-like modifications) as main characters, making them intelligent, able to speak, etc... as we can see in "The Lion King"... Well, I'm ok with that. But making them have and use men-made objects like belts and tarps stretches my Suspension of Disbelief a bit too much).

[dreki]

Yeah, it was something on those lines, From total depravity to somethingsomethig (basically the only right thing).

Her Hummingfluff site now shows her works in progress (the two Christian furry animals) and finished work. The latter consists of LP only.  I'm sad again.

Oh that makes much more sense thank you.

I imagine her definition of "depravity" would be hilariously disappointing.

However I do know people who've gotten wrapped up in really bad things so maybe she did end up addicted to drugs and using her body and destroyed her life and just a really toxic, horrible hole.  Which will be shocking and impressive she managed to keep SSSS going despite.

And also heartbreaking because it makes her new "hate yourself" church seem incredibly predatory.

Buuuuut I'm guessing depravity looks more like "normal human life that she now looks down on". 

.I've never gotten the impression that Minna had a condemning attitude in her work or speech.

Yeah that's why we're upset.  She's now quite condemning. Herself as well, so it's a bit tragic, but also anyone who isn't her brand of Christian.

[thorny]

I think she's using "depravity" in a specific religious sense.

[thegreyarea]

I think she's using "depravity" in a specific religious sense.

Problem is that definition may be quite broad depending on the specific religious "flavour", ranging from orgies and/with use of drugs to people (oh god!) touching hands before marriage...

[tehta]

Sure, there are other, more casual meanings, but 'total depravity' is a specific doctrine with plenty of literature behind it, and even its own Wikipedia page. It's also promoted by one of Minna's favorite theologians. To me, it would be extremely weird if she used it in some other sense in a comic about religious doctrine, comparable to a Catholic using the phrase 'original sin' to mean novel sins that haven't been seen before.

[thegreyarea]

Edited on January 2023.

Information about this thread, please read

Minna’s personal testimony comic A Meandering Path has been published and her next work, Journey Upstream has launched. This thread is for discussion of these works, their Christian and possible other themes etc. This thread is more of a meta-discussion, not about the stories per se but the messages and the thoughts and feelings provoked by them.

This thread will not use spoiler tags, all content and plot points can be discussed openly.

This thread contains direct and stark criticism of the strongly Christian works. It is not intended as criticism of Christianity or religion as a whole, but some of the discussion is likely to contain elements that criticize or comment against certain aspects of what some readers may consider important for their faith.

This thread is NOT reserved for negative comments about the works. Positive comments, praise, and counter arguments of the criticism presented is welcome.

Everyone is expected to NOT engage in criticizing the opinions, views or faith of others. Criticism of an aspect of religion is not intended as general religion bashing, and conversely, disagreeing with it is not to be taken as a blanket ”I’m right and you are wrong.” This is a discussion, not an argument.

At the time of writing the thread has remained very civilized, let’s keep up the good work!

Moderator out.

Sure, there are other, more casual meanings, but 'total depravity' is a specific doctrine with plenty of literature behind it, and even its own Wikipedia page. It's also promoted by one of Minna's favorite theologians. To me, it would be extremely weird if she used it in some other sense in a comic about religious doctrine, comparable to a Catholic using the phrase 'original sin' to mean novel sins that haven't been seen before.

Ok, you're surely right about that. I didn't know that part... and it helps understanding Minna's position. Thanks for pointing it, Tehta. (btw here's the link to the Wikipedia page)

I suppose for a religious person that's a quite depressing and stressing way of viewing Humanity. How impressive is the difference with the all-forgiving view of some catholics that I know well... Minna could have had better luck.

(BTW nice to see you!)

[tyfasi]

i bit the bullet and read the Testimony comic, it went up this week.

I was kind of just hoping the comic would be more about Minna struggling with faith and finding a meaningful community instead of the "nothing i said/made/did was good before i converted" tone a lot of her stuff has had recently.

Unfortunately it split down the middle of those themes. The comic is at its best when she talks about her severe anxiety and depression and how learning about Christianity and finding a church brought her out of that. The comic is really bad and patronizing when she talked about how wrong and evil she was before converting. There is a long and truly awful section where she talks about how without the moral framework of god people easily sink into degeneracy, a very common theme in the entire comic was that thinking not nice things is a mortal sin on par with acting on the same bad impulses.
Something kind of sad to read during this was how very little merit she saw in her old comics. She mentions Redtails Dream and SSSS by name once each and only to talk about the depictions she had of christians in those comics and, weirdly, how the traditional finnish depiction of the afterlife was grim and bleak.

But after that she refers to these comics as "empty entertainment", implying they are not meaningful art, and that her good reputation as an artist, the connections she made, and the support of her fans was a frivolous indulgence. And thats...really shocking to read since I know many people consider those comics to be deeply meaningful and beautiful art. It's even a bit ironic considering I thought Lovely People was a lukewarm dystopia at its best and chick track at its worst. The actual art too, I think is not very impressive for both Lovely People and this Testimony comic. Compared to the rich colors, bold inking, striking character designs, and gorgeous sweeping backgrounds from her previous projects the art in LP and this comic are a disappointment. Maybe it's because this comic was supposed to be an easy stop-gap and she didn't want to put in the effort but looking back at panels from aRtD and SSSS I can't believe it's by the same artist! The colors are washed out and pale, the characters boring and too similar to remember easily, and when there actually are backgrounds theyre messy and indistinct. And by looking at the concept art pages for the upcoming comic I don't think her previous style is going to come back.

Maybe she finds her new stories meaningful, but to me LP, this new comic, and the upcoming god seeking animal stories are shallow and dull. Theyre devoid of the interesting ideas she put in her "empty" fantasy comics, instead just more well-tread stories identical to every other christian moral lesson you can get anywhere.
The Journey Upstream comic might surprise me, but I really don't think we'll get anything close to a Redtails Dream or Stand Still Stay Silent from her again.

This was probably pretty harsh for a short comic made for what I suspect is Minna's own comfort, and I hope I'm wrong about what her future projects will be like (there was hints at comic ideas she was considering before LP and they did sound neat and I really hope she didn't shelve those permanently) but she doesn't seem to want to do the kind of art I originally admired her for. Oh well

[Keep Looking]

Thank you for sharing how you found the Testimony comic!

I'm glad to hear that finding Christianity helped bring Minna out of severe anxiety and depression, but I do agree that it sounds rather depressing how little value she is putting onto her previous work. Potentially part of this may be derived from the fact that she may have been in a bad place mentally while she was doing it (I know how much that can colour things badly), but it also sounds like the doctrine of her new church may be having a strong influence there too.

I guess I'll have to read her comic myself soon enough - I am curious about what she has to say, even if I know it may not make me particularly happy.

[Grade E cat]

Because I have a very high "letting go of a work" threshold and it showed up in a bookstore I get myself to on a semi-regular basis, I own the French translation of Book 4 of SSSS. One of the additions for the print version was an afterword in which Minna mentions her newfound Christianity. However, her attitude towards SSSS in that afterword seems have been along the lines of "I made this comic for entertainment, so I hope it succeeded in that" and "it was interesting to reread it and remember where I was at the time". There are also bits about her "having found her way" and "now going where [Jesus] wants her to go". Now I'm seeing how this looks like further down the line.

[dmeck7755]

i bit the bullet and read the Testimony comic, it went up this week.

I will look at it when it is free.  I will admit, I am curious.

I was kind of just hoping the comic would be more about Minna struggling with faith and finding a meaningful community instead of the "nothing i said/made/did was good before i converted" tone a lot of her stuff has had recently.

She made an addendum on her hummingfluff page (Considering she never even mentioned SSSS and ARTD prior)

-------------
From page:
Old comics
I can't whole-heartedly recommend the comics I finished during my pre-Christian era, since even though I tried to make them as "just entertainment" and for mass appeal, our worldviews always color our creations. But the comics exist, and read with that understanding they can be kinda decent. So if you do want to read them they are:

"A Redtail's dream" My first finished comic, made when I was in university (finished 2013). It's a fairytale-ish adventure set in a dream world inspired by Finnish mythology.

"Stand Still. Stay Silent" This was my very long-running post-apocalyptic horror-adventure story, set in the Nordics and with a fantasy flare inspired by Nordic mythologies (Norse and Finnish). NOT suitable for children (and maybe not sensitive adults) because of the very prominent horror elements.
-------
At least she is admitting she made them. (Maybe so she keeps her copyrights).  I also find it sad that she thinks the works are no longer "good".  They have supplied her with a decent living, inspired a very active fanbase and fan fiction.  Plus many people commenting on how beautiful the art was.  I find that truly sad.

Unfortunately it split down the middle of those themes. The comic is at its best when she talks about her severe anxiety and depression and how learning about Christianity and finding a church brought her out of that.

Depression is an ugly monster that swallows you whole.  It is good something helped her.  Everyone fights their battles in their own way

Something kind of sad to read during this was how very little merit she saw in her old comics. She mentions Redtails Dream and SSSS by name once each and only to talk about the depictions she had of christians in those comics and, weirdly, how the traditional finnish depiction of the afterlife was grim and bleak.

I Liked her handling of Anne.  I do not remember any clergy depictions in ARTD. (I read it only once. ).

I do like Valhalla better than sleeping in a river though

But after that she refers to these comics as "empty entertainment", implying they are not meaningful art, and that her good reputation as an artist, the connections she made, and the support of her fans was a frivolous indulgence. And thats...really shocking to read since I know many people consider those comics to be deeply meaningful and beautiful art.

WOW!  I think her feelings are totally way off.  It also feels like a slam in the face. Especially since she made a living off of this for 10 years..  The comic meant a lot to a great many people. (me included)  It is disheartening that she is willing to throw it and the people away.

Maybe she finds her new stories meaningful, but to me LP, this new comic, and the upcoming god seeking animal stories are shallow and dull. Theyre devoid of the interesting ideas she put in her "empty" fantasy comics, instead just more well-tread stories identical to every other christian moral lesson you can get anywhere.
The Journey Upstream comic might surprise me, but I really don't think we'll get anything close to a Redtails Dream or Stand Still Stay Silent from her again.

I think you are correct.  It will take a lot of thinking and introspection to come up with something unique and enlightening.  She seems to be repeating the rhetoric she is learning.  Which is hardly new or interesting.

Also, Making money with Christian themed arts is very difficult.  I do not know how many substack subscribers she has.

This was probably pretty harsh for a short comic made for what I suspect is Minna's own comfort, and I hope I'm wrong about what her future projects will be like (there was hints at comic ideas she was considering before LP and they did sound neat and I really hope she didn't shelve those permanently) but she doesn't seem to want to do the kind of art I originally admired her for. Oh well

+1 Sigh

[Jitter]

Thank you tyfasi for letting us know it’s out. Not that what your are telling is making me any happier, but this was expected. Still, it’s disheartening to learn she has taken such a complete turnaround as regards the older works. In light of this it’s no wonder Adventure 2 became what it became. Considering the apparently utter lack of interest on her side towards the end, it’s a testimony of strong work ethic that she did finish it in any case.

I will buy book 4 when it becomes available to the Hiveworks shop, but I don’t think I would be interested in buying A2 in hard copies after all this. Also I mostly hope she will not be making any more bonus comics on SSSS, it would only be sad.

I will read the testimony comic despite everything because I’m nosy like that. At least I have been warned! However right now I don’t have the mental energy to spend on something that I know will make me sad and possibly angry, so I will have to return later with any comments on the comic itself when I can summon the strength for it.

[Mirasol]

Heya, perhaps really stupid question.

I also want to read the testimony-comic, not that I actually expect much that I can in any way support from it, but mostly because I don´t think it´s really fair from me towards Minna after all to only read other people´s opinions about it. I too am very sad about how much Minna rejects her old works (at least she´s linking them again...), they meant a lot to me as well. But I also want to know what happened here to get Minna to that point.

So I was meaning to take a look at it yesterday after seeing your message, tyfasi, but the official Hummingfluff-page says it won´t launch until November, and googling the title itself doesn´t get me any results either. Is there some early-access-thing going on that I don´t know of?

[angsttronaut]

So I was meaning to take a look at it yesterday after seeing your message, tyfasi, but the official Hummingfluff-page says it won´t launch until November, and googling the title itself doesn´t get me any results either. Is there some early-access-thing going on that I don´t know of?

She's released it early for her Substack subscribers, don't think she's linked it anywhere else just yet.

[dmeck7755]

There were some jokes (or no-so-jokes) on discord, that she would release it for halloween Or Nov 1 (Nov 1 is all souls day).
 So if she is into symbolism, she may do it then.

[dmeck7755]

Well,
It looks like the new bunny comic is now available.  I have not read it, but I probably will later (Then finish my story about Sigrun to wash the sadness away)

Looking at the chatter on Discord, It looks really painful, incredibly sad and disheartening.  If Minna felt like what the few snippets that were pasted in Discord, I feel nothing but overwhelming grief for her.

Though there was one paste from the comic that kinda irked me.  (I am better than you vibes)

From what I have seen so far.  I do suggest any person who was stressed out about LP, not look at this comic.  I think LP was/is tame by comparison.

Now this is just what I am getting from Discord, so that is not a fully formed opinion

I will update when I do read it...(If I can finish it)