Forum Restructuring Plans

[Keep Looking]

I just hope that restructuring doesn't involve too many changes in aesthetics! The purple and blue theme of the forum seems to be somewhat linked to SSSS, so I'm not sure how it would work once we move away from that topic specifically. What'll be the background picture? What font will we use? Etc... But the thing that I like about the current theme is that it's a great relief on my eyes. There's a push for more high-contrast themes with no drop shadows in web design in general, but I found it very unpleasant because I have a terrible astigmatism (makes the words all fuzzy if there's too much contrast) I think it's a pretty common condition, but I'm not sure how many forum users also have eyesight this bad.

We don't have any plans yet for changing the aesthetics (and I haven't seen any demand for changing the forum's colour scheme, even if some colours are originally SSSS-derived) but we'll be sure to take this into consideration if or when we do change the forum's look. It's definitely important that the forum's appearance is accessible to all users.

Also, Tarnagh, I second what Jitter said about sorting by author - it's not a system that would be good to apply for everything, as many works either don't have a singular author or aren't strongly associated with the author's name. However, it might be a good system for specific authors with multiple works whose names are recognisable - as Jitter said, it can't be applied to everything but it's a good idea where it works.

[Songbird]

Also, Tarnagh, I second what Jitter said about sorting by author - it's not a system that would be good to apply for everything, as many works either don't have a singular author or aren't strongly associated with the author's name. However, it might be a good system for specific authors with multiple works whose names are recognisable - as Jitter said, it can't be applied to everything but it's a good idea where it works.

What about tagging threads with the authors' names and work's universe if there's one (eg A Song of Ice and Fire)? Work name goes in the title, author in the tags for those interested in locating more works by them.

I found two thread tagging mods for this system: Super Simple Thread Tags and Tagging System for Topics
The first seems to be just styling, the second one lets you find everything under a tag.


Forum Structure

I like the third option better.

Some notes:
- The general category description needs a tweak to make it clear this is the board to talk about existing media and the types that go there (comics, books, games (...). The way it's currently phrased in the example could be taken as an invitation to discuss writing techniques and more, what I believe goes in the Creative Area.
- It bothers me a little that SSSS is in the same category as other content but I can't think of a better alternative.
- Does PerSSSonas really need its own board? I'm torn on this one. While I feel it should go under the SSSS sub-category since one exists it also belongs to the Roleplay genre and together with an upcoming non-SSSS game it would be a good opportunity to start populating that board. Empty boards are intimidating.
- It'd be nice to have a link to the rules thread in the navigation bar or a in forum-wide sticky thread.


Concerning the need of restructuring, here's my recent newcomer perspective:

One of the first things I did when arrived was to explore the forums to get a sense of the type of content and culture. I determined most categories didn't have category-specific rules but was slightly surprised to not find a sticky linking to the general rules either, what took me back to the index to hunt for it. After locating it I then tried to determine what other sort of non-SSSS we had going here and found it was almost nothing at all. It took over a month for a thread unrelated to any of her works to pop up in the unread threads.

There were no dedicated sections, barely any active threads and no new threads in weeks either. I also stumbled on the occasional oddly-worded post implying the need for permission to create new threads—what took me to another trip to the stickies and general forum rules—and not rare apologies for veering off-topic in existing threads made without the attempts to create new threads. It felt as if there's this cloud of silence hanging over the forums people hesitate in disturbing, specially when it comes to content outside SSSS. New people operate by example, if the role model is not making noise that's what will keep happening. And this quietude is not by design, it's just status quo doing its thing.

That's why I feel a restructuring is good for kicking a new life into the forums too. It shakes up things and makes it clear it was made to be used.

[Jitter]

Thank you Songbird for your frank viewpoints! It’s very interesting to see how it looks when coming in from outside. One of the reasons for the apparent silence is that the Personal board is invisible to the newest newbies - I understand well why this is, but your comments point to a problem!

I agree that there seems to be some reluctance towards creating new threads. When this is combined with people apologizing for thread necromancy, it sometimes seems a bit like “we are Just Fine with these conversations, please do not disturb us”. I don’t think this is very conducive for new users to become active! So far we have users coming in and traffic happening from the SSSS updates, but if we are serious about diversifying we have to give the air to encourage people to also start new discussions.

[viola]

Thank you Songbird for your frank viewpoints! It’s very interesting to see how it looks when coming in from outside. One of the reasons for the apparent silence is that the Personal board is invisible to the newest newbies - I understand well why this is, but your comments point to a problem!

I agree that there seems to be some reluctance towards creating new threads. When this is combined with people apologizing for thread necromancy, it sometimes seems a bit like “we are Just Fine with these conversations, please do not disturb us”. I don’t think this is very conducive for new users to become active! So far we have users coming in and traffic happening from the SSSS updates, but if we are serious about diversifying we have to give the air to encourage people to also start new discussions.

Part of the problem was originally thread necromancy was against the rules, but I went back and changed it, in the last two years or so because it wasn't problematic.

[Jitter]

Yeah, I figured there would be reasons. I am under the impression that the Forum has been more active some years ago?

But currently the situation appears to be that if and when new people have read the comic for the first time and want to speculate about something, it’s a no-no if some people have covered it years ago. Reading the old threads is interesting, but it’s not the same as participating in the discussion.  Since thread necromancy isn’t actually forbidden now, it’s less of a problem, but like Songbird says, new users learn from example. I assume a more active forum requires rules against repetition, but at the moment I see no harm in discussions even about things that have been covered previously, but not touched for years.

[Yuuago]

The third option looks best to me I think. The structure looks pretty flexible.

Checking if I'm understanding it right: discussion of canon (any canon by any author) would go under the Worlds and Stories discussion board, and fanworks for any fandom would go under the art or writing section of the creative area?

In this format, would the SSSS and aRTD boards be moved as-is under Worlds and Stories and fanworks for them would go there as usual?

I like that there's space for a roleplay board in the third option. It's the kind of thing that I'm surprised didn't exist already.

[Jitter]

Yuuago, these structures are not set in stone as alternatives yet!

The current idea is that also SSSS fanworks would go into the Creative area. The current Art Museum and Scriptorium threads would be moved there as seed content.

The idea is to give more visibility to the creative content and perhaps encourage more of it.

[thegreyarea]

As far as structuring the fan art: I think the only suggestion I've got to make there is that it should allow for some people possibly wanting to do crossover works.

I think any crossover would fit well into the proposed categories of Art or Writing. If it turns out that are many crossovers we can consider, in the Future, a dedicated child board.

I just hope that restructuring doesn't involve too many changes in aesthetics! The purple and blue theme of the forum seems to be somewhat linked to SSSS, so I'm not sure how it would work once we move away from that topic specifically. What'll be the background picture? What font will we use? Etc...

I believe nobody thought much about aesthetics yet, mostly because we're not planning to change the name in the coming restructuring. If (or, more probably, when) we come to that point I see no problem in keeping the overall scheme and switching the SSSS-related pics for others. We could even make a call for submissions for the many excellent artists we have in the Forum, asking for creations that match well with the current colour scheme.

No reason why there couldn’t be threads for authors though! It is a good idea where it works.

I agree with Jitter and Keep Looking. It will work better when an author has it's own "universe" of stories, and has a well-known name, like Tolkien. It's hard to work for multi-author franchises like Warhammer 40K (BTW Wikipedia credits Rick Priestley and Alessio Cavatore for the creation). Implementing a tag system, as Songbirds suggested, sounds good, but I don't know how much work is needed to do that.

Some notes:
- The general category description needs a tweak to make it clear this is the board to talk about existing media and the types that go there (comics, books, games (...). The way it's currently phrased in the example could be taken as an invitation to discuss writing techniques and more, what I believe goes in the Creative Area.
- It bothers me a little that SSSS is in the same category as other content but I can't think of a better alternative.
- Does PerSSSonas really need its own board? I'm torn on this one. While I feel it should go under the SSSS sub-category since one exists it also belongs to the Roleplay genre and together with an upcoming non-SSSS game it would be a good opportunity to start populating that board. Empty boards are intimidating.
- It'd be nice to have a link to the rules thread in the navigation bar or a in forum-wide sticky thread.

On my understanding from the third structure ("last example"), it's clear that writing techniques discussions would go to the new "Academy" board.

Moving SSSS inside a broader category, IIRC, was more or less consensual in the previous discussion as a way to set up a future when other content will gradually grow, eventually reaching the same level of importance (or perhaps more?) than SSSS currently has.

I also think that PerSSSSonas don't need a board. The roleplay parts of it (that are the more active ones) would be better in the new "Roleplay" board, giving it a good start. The non-roleplay parts could fit into the main SSSS board. But it would be good to hear more about that from the people that participate with more intensity on those threads.

I think it would be a good idea to put a link to the rules in the "home" menu.

Yuuago, these structures are not set in stone as alternatives yet!

The current idea is that also SSSS fanworks would go into the Creative area. The current Art Museum and Scriptorium threads would be moved there as seed content.

The idea is to give more visibility to the creative content and perhaps encourage more of it.

Exactly. I see the SSSS Art Museum going to the "Art/Audiovisual Media" board, while the Forum Art Museum would go to the "Original Art" child board. Same for writings and the Scriptorium. I believe the Creative Area would be a great and stimulating place, particularly by inviting artists to try other sources of inspiration (and crossovers too).

I would like to propose adding an "Events" board to the Creative Area. Advent Calendars, Chapter Break Fillers, Yoinktobers and the like tend to mix writing and visual arts, so they wouldn't fit exactly in neither category. It could also give them more attention. After some time (a month? two?) they would be locked and moved to their own space in the Archive, as proposed in the third option.

[Keep Looking]

I would like to propose adding an "Events" board to the Creative Area. Advent Calendars, Chapter Break Fillers, Yoinktobers and the like tend to mix writing and visual arts, so they wouldn't fit exactly in neither category. It could also give them more attention. After some time (a month? two?) they would be locked and moved to their own space in the Archive, as proposed in the third option.

I agree, that definitely sounds like a good idea.

[Jitter]

As for the events, I would lock them but keep them in the board especially if it’s dedicated just for events. Or maybe archive like two years after it’s finished or something like that. The Art Museum and Scriptorium threads have years and years of content, no reason why the events should disappear quickly.

[thegreyarea]

As for the events, I would lock them but keep them in the board especially if it’s dedicated just for events. Or maybe archive like two years after it’s finished or something like that. The Art Museum and Scriptorium threads have years and years of content, no reason why the events should disappear quickly.

Yes, I agree! We don't have that many events after all. If we keep having 4 or 5 events each year there's no reason to hurry in archiving them. And two years seems reasonable.

[Sc0ut]

After locating it I then tried to determine what other sort of non-SSSS we had going here and found it was almost nothing at all. It took over a month for a thread unrelated to any of her works to pop up in the unread threads.

There were no dedicated sections, barely any active threads and no new threads in weeks either. I also stumbled on the occasional oddly-worded post implying the need for permission to create new threads—what took me to another trip to the stickies and general forum rules—and not rare apologies for veering off-topic in existing threads made without the attempts to create new threads. It felt as if there's this cloud of silence hanging over the forums people hesitate in disturbing, specially when it comes to content outside SSSS. New people operate by example, if the role model is not making noise that's what will keep happening. And this quietude is not by design, it's just status quo doing its thing.

Well, I think part of the reasons behind this is that this always has been (at least up until now) a strongly SSSS-focused forum. People come here for the SSSS but largely go to other places for other needs and creative pursuits. For instance, I don't really feel the need to post my art here unless it relates to the fandom, otherwise I post it on tumblr where it's much more likely that people will see it and interact with it (not to mention that having to host the images elsewhere makes it juuust slightly uncomfortable to post images on the forum). I am excited to see it move in another direction hopefully, but I understand why it's been like this so far and I don't blame it on the moderating, such as the rules against thread necromancy (even though I personally never understood what's supposed to be the problem with that in the first place! Similar information belongs in the same topic, right? My mind is one that enjoys category and structure when they're not too stifling).

In terms of the reluctance re: what is allowed or not, there really were some influential events (or even suppositions!) in the forum's history that created part of the culture. In the first years of the forum's creation it was unclear whether Minna was reading it or not, and whether she would have problems with specific content being posted here (such as mature fanart). Even once she explicitly said she was not reading the forum and was not against any sort of fanart, we still had quite the divisive conversation among forumites, prior to the creation of the Mature Board. Some people felt like all hell would break loose if we created it, and/or something previously pure to them would be tainted. Yet now, years later, it's seen very little use and effectively hasn't changed much about the forum 

Even earlier than that, we even went through a time when shipping was frowned upon, a trend that was launched by a few vocal users back then. The opposition gradually died off with people moving away from the fandom and/or changing their mind about this topic, but as you say the example remained and for a long time people somewhat tiptoed around shipping. I'm happy we got over that

As for the events, I would lock them but keep them in the board especially if it’s dedicated just for events. Or maybe archive like two years after it’s finished or something like that. The Art Museum and Scriptorium threads have years and years of content, no reason why the events should disappear quickly.

Yeah, I never got the point of archiving things. Locking event threads after the event that has passed - sure. But leave them in the category they belong to, so that someone who browses the category can see the forum has a history of doing X event, and can see how it was done over the years, instead of having to figure out there's also an archive where things are moved.

[Keep Looking]

Yeah, I never got the point of archiving things. Locking event threads after the event that has passed - sure. But leave them in the category they belong to, so that someone who browses the category can see the forum has a history of doing X event, and can see how it was done over the years, instead of having to figure out there's also an archive where things are moved.

I think the archive has been helpful when event threads have been put in the SSSS board or the General board, as archiving old events meant that these threads which were now no longer in use and would not be used again didn't clog up a board full of other active threads or threads that could be resurrected in the future. However, if we have an events board then I agree that there's not really any need to archive old events - rather, it'd be nice for people to be able to browse through old events and see what happened.

[viola]

Yeah the archive is kind of a mess, I think one of the main things that will be changed in the restructuring (and the reason we'll need skald help), is sorting the archived threads and moving them to their respective boards.

[thegreyarea]

Yeah the archive is kind of a mess, I think one of the main things that will be changed in the restructuring (and the reason we'll need skald help), is sorting the archived threads and moving them to their respective boards.

You mean unarchiving everything? I'm not complaining, just curious. Also I think this process (total or partial) wouldn't have to be done in a hurry. We could focus first in the restructuring, and later began moving the archived threads to their new locations.