Forum Restructuring Plans

[viola]

Hello Everyone!

We, the forum team would like to make a few big announcements.

The first big announcement is that we are going to do some restructuring of the site's layout. This will involve moving some threads around, moving some boards around, and also creating some new sections to help the community move forwards together. We have some ideas for the restructuring, but this is a community and we want your input on these ideas. We want to know what you think of the proposed structures, what your favourites are and why. We want to know if we left anything out or if there are some areas that should be better titled. We'd love to hear what your thoughts are! We can't promise we will incorporate everything though, as some things will be limited by the site and the abilities of the team, but we will try to listen. The topic will be open for about a month for everyone to discuss.

The examples of different structures we've come up with are as follows:

Spoiler: SSSSeparate from fandoms • show

(Grouping - Main Board - Sub-board - special permissions )

Worlds and Stories
- Writing
- Art/audiovisual media
-18+
- Fun Stuff (Fandoms in general)
- Webcomics discussions
- Books discussions
- Movies / Series discussions
- etc.

About Anything
General Discussion Board:
- Politics / personal
Languages

Minna's Comics:
- ssss
- PerSSSSonas
- artd (potential to demote to childboard)
- COH (potential to integrate into larger SSSS stuff)
- 'Minna's New Stuff' (If we want it)

Website stuff:
- website help/rules
- archive

Spoiler: Within Fandoms but with grouping • show

(Grouping - Main Board - Sub-board - special permissions)

Worlds and Stories
- Writing
- Art/audiovisual media
- 18+
- Fun Stuff (Fandoms in general)
- Webcomics discussions
- Books discussions
- Movies / Series discussions
- etc.
- ssss
- PerSSSSonas
- artd (potential to demote to childboard)
- COH (potential to integrate into larger SSSS stuff)
- 'Minna's New Stuff' (If we want it)

About Anything
General Discussion Board:
- Politics / personal
Languages

Website stuff:
- website help/rules
- archive

Spoiler: one last example • show

(Grouping - Main Board - Sub-board - special permissions)

Worlds and Stories

Discussion Board A place to talk and exchange ideas about fictional Worlds and Stories
  Child board: Recomendations (suggestions on books, comics, games, series, movies, etc...)
SSSS and ARTD Board A place to talk about Stand Still Stay Silent and A Redtail's Dream (CoH topics would go here)
  Child boards: A Redtail's Dream, PerSSSSonas
Mature Content Board The board for all your 19th century art and literature

Creative Area

Art/Audiovisual Media A place to enjoy, post and talk about any kind of artwork, original or based on existing stories
  Child board: Original Art
Writing A place to enjoy, post and talk about any kind of writing, original or based on existing stories
  Child board: Original Writing
Role-play
Academy (Tutorial, Tips, etc...)

About Anything

General Discussion Board
  Child boards: Politics, Personal
Languages
History and Mythology

Website stuff:

Website help/rules
  Child Board: Anonymous Suggestions and Critique
Archive
  Child Board: Events

The next big announcement is that we will be looking for some temporary skalds in July probably to help us move some of the threads around. There will be more posts about that in the recruiting skald thread. They wouldn't be permanent team members, just skalds to help with the restructuring and then would go back to being regular members, but would retain a special title on their profile in thanks for their help. There will be training sessions on how to move and split/merge threads closer to the restructuring.

The third announcement is that this fall I will be retiring. I've been the admin here for a long time, and I'm not as active in the community as I used to be. It might seem like this has something to do with what's been going on with Minna and the Lovely Bunnies comic, but it's actually something I was considering and planning for this summer before all of that happened. I've been finding myself overwhelmed with grad school and working on my thesis, and I want this community to have an admin that is involved in the community and has the time and energy to help lead all of you into the future of this site. I've learned so much and grown these past nearly 6 years that I've been admin, and I really appreciate the opportunity that I've had. I don't plan on leaving entirely, I'll probably still be around in some of the other threads, of course.

This leads me to the last part of this post: We are proud to announce @Keep Looking 's promotion to admin in training. Starting with the facilitation of the discussion in this thread, they will be taking over more and more of my responsibilities until I retire in the fall. This is to give them some time to get used to the site and to facilitate the change over.

I will ask that responses to this thread be explicitly related to the restructuring proposals. Interest in being a temporary skald can be posted in the skald recruiting thread once we are finished deciding on the new structure and the recruitment is announced. Posts regarding Keep Looking's promotion and my retirement can go in the promotions thread.

[Tarnagh]

A couple of questions: Do we know if Minna will retain a link to these forums from the SSSS page once she's finished with that story? Or that she will provide a link to these forums on any of her new works?

The answers to those questions may be a deciding factor on the first two structures that include 1) "Minna's Comics" as a whole, and; 2) "Minna's New Stuff." In the event that it happens that no new traffic is being directed here, it might be easier to (sadly) lump these into the "Webcomics discussions" sub-boards.

I like the "one last example" layout best, I think.

[Keep Looking]

A couple of questions: Do we know if Minna will retain a link to these forums from the SSSS page once she's finished with that story? Or that she will provide a link to these forums on any of her new works?

The answers to those questions may be a deciding factor on the first two structures that include 1) "Minna's Comics" as a whole, and; 2) "Minna's New Stuff." In the event that it happens that no new traffic is being directed here, it might be easier to (sadly) lump these into the "Webcomics discussions" sub-boards.

Although we haven't had any explicit word from Minna about this subject as far as I know, I think we've been running on the assumption that Minna will not link this forum to her new works - this is, after all, the 'Stand Still Stay Silent' fan forum and not the 'All-Inclusive Works of Minna' fan forum. We won't be asking her to link the forum to her new works, and Minna does seem aware that many SSSS fans are unlikely to be the target demographic of the new direction which her work is taking. I do think it is fairly likely that the link will remain on the SSSS page, though, so that might provide some amount of new users.

[JoB]

As someone who jumps right into the Unread Page and checks (sub)topics off from there, each on its own merit, I can't say that I have much of an opinion on what tree of topics should be constructed atop those. Well, decision by dice throw (and "flat hierarchy by steamroller") possibly excepted.

However, it could become relevant to me again once visibility comes into play. As of now, we make very sparing use of the feature of setting boards to nonpublic - only Personal, 18+, and Politics IIRC. As the total range of topics becomes broader by losing the focus on SSSS / Minna, members' interest in deselecting subtopics (say, a specific storyverse) from their forum view would likely increase. Are there any such plans on the horizon?

[thegreyarea]

Although we haven't had any explicit word from Minna about this subject as far as I know, I think we've been running on the assumption that Minna will not link this forum to her new works - this is, after all, the 'Stand Still Stay Silent' fan forum and not the 'All-Inclusive Works of Minna' fan forum. We won't be asking her to link the forum to her new works, and Minna does seem aware that many SSSS fans are unlikely to be the target demographic of the new direction which her work is taking. I do think it is fairly likely that the link will remain on the SSSS page, though, so that might provide some amount of new users.

I think you're right, Keep

Now, it's a detail, but considering the last example, that I prefer, maybe we should put the SSSS board first inside the Worlds and Stories section. This is, after all and until the day we decide to change, the SSSS forum.

JoB, do you mean users having to apply to access a board about a certain "universe", even if it's rating is normal (opt-in) or the ability to choose to hide that item from their tree (opt-out)?
I don't know if the later is easy to implement, but it may become more interesting if the Forum grows substantially. I'd let things as they are and see what happens. I'm sure we will have to make more adjustments as this place shifts from "Minnacentric" to a more general approach.

[JoB]

JoB, do you mean users having to apply to access a board about a certain "universe", even if it's rating is normal (opt-in) or the ability to choose to hide that item from their tree (opt-out)?
I don't know if the later is easy to implement, but it may become more interesting if the Forum grows substantially. I'd let things as they are and see what happens. I'm sure we will have to make more adjustments as this place shifts from "Minnacentric" to a more general approach.

Opt-in, opt-out, invitation-only in special cases; per board or through group memberships; those are technicalities that should IMHO be decided on later, as those mechanisms will likely not get introduced right now, either. All I'm saying is that if we foresee that people will want to have X drop beyond their individual horizon, and if the mechanism is hinged on the tree of (sub)topics, we would need to have the new structure we're picking now reflect that. (And that we'll likely want this kind of per-member visibility to be a self-administered setting, of course, rather than creating a new workload for the admins.)

[viola]

Another thing is, in the future, once the comic is finished, if the community no longer wants to be affiliated with SSSS, there is always the possibility of changing the forum theme and the domain name. That's not something we're looking at for this restructuring, but in a few years down the road if the community wants to go in a different direction, that can be something to discuss.

[thorny]

I'm also not so concerned with what the structure of the "tree" looks like. But I think we should consider the option, if the forum starts to have a lot of people following a small number of other works, to move such other works to a position equivalent to that of SSSS: that is, a general 'other works' grouping for those that have only a few followers and those that most are just starting to explore and don't know whether they'll follow, but a specific grouping named for the work or author for anything that's attracted a large consistent following.

And I haven't checked into whether the software already does this, but if possible it should be set up so that those who want to could avoid seeing the sections dedicated to anything they don't want to see.

I think that the forum/domain name discussion should be held eventually; but agree that we don't have to have it yet.

[Jitter]

I'm also not so concerned with what the structure of the "tree" looks like. But I think we should consider the option, if the forum starts to have a lot of people following a small number of other works, to move such other works to a position equivalent to that of SSSS: that is, a general 'other works' grouping for those that have only a few followers and those that most are just starting to explore and don't know whether they'll follow, but a specific grouping named for the work or author for anything that's attracted a large consistent following.

This was one of the ideas we have been upholding among the staff: if and when some other fandom or issue gathers enough following, it will have a board (perhaps a child board to start with). But we don’t want to go guessing and setting up boards now, rather let it grow organically to see which fandoms warrant their own areas.

One of the key questions is whether we want to keep SSSS or Minna’s comics in a category of its own, or include with all the other stories and fandoms into the “Words and Stories” (or whatever we want to call it) category.  This will also influence (although not dictate) what happens with Minna’s new works. So this is something we are particularly keen to hear opinions on.

Another big issue is whether we want to organize creative works into an area (category) of their own, or keep fanwork in the same board as the canon-related discussion of that fandom. The latter has worked well so far, when we have just the one fandom and one canon (with some ARtD on the side) but if there are many worlds and stories discussed in one board, it may be trickier. Which way would be more encouraging for users to participate and create fanworks, for SSSS universe but also for others? If the separate creative area happens, original works will also go there.

An opt-out feature for potential new boards would be good, if it’s possible (I have no idea), but I personally don’t like the idea that all new fandom boards would be opt-in. That will most likely result in much less traffic in those boards and the “cross-pollination” effect we are hoping for will be diminished.

[thorny]

This was one of the ideas we have been upholding among the staff: if and when some other fandom or issue gathers enough following, it will have a board (perhaps a child board to start with). But we don’t want to go guessing and setting up boards now, rather let it grow organically to see which fandoms warrant their own areas.

Makes sense to me.

One of the key questions is whether we want to keep SSSS or Minna’s comics in a category of its own, or include with all the other stories and fandoms into the “Words and Stories” (or whatever we want to call it) category.  This will also influence (although not dictate) what happens with Minna’s new works. So this is something we are particularly keen to hear opinions on.
[. . . ]

An opt-out feature for potential new boards would be good, if it’s possible (I have no idea)

I just checked my profile, and found, under "modify profile", "ignore boards options"; which, when I click on it, says

This page lets you ignore particular boards. When a board is ignored, the new post indicator will not show up on the board index. New posts will not show up using the "unread post" search link (when searching it will not look in those boards) however, ignored boards will still appear on the board index and upon entering will show which topics have new posts. When using the "unread replies" link, new posts in an ignored board will still be shown.

So that seems to be a semi-ignore option; because any ignored boards will still be visible if looking at the board index and, if I'm understanding that correctly, will show up as "unread replies" if anyone replies to a post you once made in an ignored board, though I don't suppose that's going to come up all that often unless you recently ignored a board that you used to post in. If you ignore a board and then come in via the "unread posts" method, however, you won't see it at all.

I don't see any way to ignore a specific topic within a board. I know this is possible with some board software, because I'm on another board (using Discourse) where you can do that; but I don't know whether it's not possible with this board software, or whether it's an admin setting.

If it's only possible with this software to ignore entire boards and not individual topics, that seems to me to argue for giving anything that a significant number of members seem likely to want to ignore (whether it's new or old) its own board.

I personally don’t like the idea that all new fandom boards would be opt-in. That will most likely result in much less traffic in those boards and the “cross-pollination” effect we are hoping for will be diminished.

I agree with you. "Ignore" should be a choice; but it shouldn't be the default.

As far as structuring the fan art: I think the only suggestion I've got to make there is that it should allow for some people possibly wanting to do crossover works.

[Vulpes]

As far as structure goes, I like the third option, especially that it has a dedicated area for creative works. Like JoB, I usually go straight to "new replies" or "unread posts", so the actual structure is less important to me. That said, it is helpful if I go looking for something, so it is good to have some kind of arrangement.

[catbirds]

I also prefer the third option, just because I think having these categories presented to you the moment you open up a page will encourage you to think about how you can contribute to or learn about this or that category. That, and everything Vulpes said. I don't really mind the structure much either, since I just know which particular threads interest me and I think most people end up with preferences, but it's still good to make sure these things are presented to you right off the bat.

I just hope that restructuring doesn't involve too many changes in aesthetics! The purple and blue theme of the forum seems to be somewhat linked to SSSS, so I'm not sure how it would work once we move away from that topic specifically. What'll be the background picture? What font will we use? Etc... But the thing that I like about the current theme is that it's a great relief on my eyes. There's a push for more high-contrast themes with no drop shadows in web design in general, but I found it very unpleasant because I have a terrible astigmatism (makes the words all fuzzy if there's too much contrast) I think it's a pretty common condition, but I'm not sure how many forum users also have eyesight this bad.

[Jitter]

Several people have already said that they go directly to the Unread option and don’t care about the structure. However, the restructuring is done for the future and for the future users. We the current active users, are already used to the Forum, and know what goes where. We could diversify the topics within the current structure with no issue. But now we are looking for a structure that would, just like Catbirds points out, encourage new users to participate widely.

Furthermore, I at least am hoping the regulars will be active in the new topics too! So, when we have the relaunch, please don’t just sit tight in the Unread area, but open up new conversations! We the staff can’t know which issues and fandoms would be of interest. We can and probably will open some new threads or add new comments on existing but dormant threads to bring them into the Unread space, but the diversity of topics must come from the users! So, put on your thinking caps and start planning, what thread would I like to start to make the New Forum a lively place!

Note! This is not a mandatory exercise! Participating in existing discussions, as well as just reading, are valid and fully acceptable ways of being on the Forum. This is just meant to encourage the current active members to help in fleshing out the new Forum.

[Tarnagh]

One of the key questions is whether we want to keep SSSS or Minna’s comics in a category of its own, or include with all the other stories and fandoms into the “Words and Stories” (or whatever we want to call it) category.  This will also influence (although not dictate) what happens with Minna’s new works. So this is something we are particularly keen to hear opinions on.

Regarding this: "Words and Stories" separated based on the author, rather than the individual webcomics? That way "Minna Sunderberg" would have a topic with child sub-topics of her individual works; likewise for "Anni K." or "KB Spangler" or "Dave Warren" or ... you get the idea. Some might only have one work, some might have several.

Is it possible to show a summary (one or two titles perhaps) as a description under the parent thread? If so, it might solve this neatly without it looking like any author is getting preferential treatment, and the summary would show people the titles in case they don't know the name of the author.

[Jitter]

Tarnagh, this would work for books, but for other media it’s tricky. Movies, series and games don’t have one author. Webcomics, which seem like a logical area to diversify to (and we already have plans, such as the comic of the month series discussed in the Future thread), are sometimes authored by several people, who may also be authoring other works with different co-authors.

Also I tend to think that many webcomics are a lot better known by the name of the comic than by the author (I may be mistaken - I am not active in other webcomics, I only follow a few titles). When this is the case, listing it under the author’s name becomes unnecessary gatekeeping, sort of “are you into this enough? Enough to know and remember the name of the author?”. I wish we can avoid all sorts of “are you a fan enough” type of sentiment here.

No reason why there couldn’t be threads for authors though! It is a good idea where it works.