SSSS Fic ideas [general repository]

[lwise]

Beasts, because there's a very huge number of mammals out there, so it's not only 70 million trolls (aprox. 1% of the World's human population) but many more beasts. Just the number of cows is estimated on 1,5 billion, so it would be 15 million (large) cow-beasts to fight... Now add sheep, pigs, dogs, rabbits, horses and so many wild animals...

With regard to Beasts, I think in cities at least initially you wouldn't have to worry about much besides dogs and vermin (mice, rats, squirrels).  Possums and skunks around here, maybe raccoons in other areas.  However, as soon as people realized all mammals were vulnerable to trollification, they'd shoot first and ask questions never.  Dogs, cattle, deer, sheep, pigs ... I think the owners would (very sadly and regretfully) kill as many as they could before the animals showed any symptoms.  In the country out here, though, we have wild pigs, which are dangerous even when not trollified!

The eugenics part raises two questions:
First, we saw no evidence of that on the source material. But Minna may have not give much thought to the topic, or maybe we just didn't see enough to notice.
Second, there's the disadvantage of reducing the reproduction rate and the gene pool, which is worrying when you have a very reduced population. (not to mention the societal stress connected to the implementation of that ban...)
So any sufficiently protected community would, I believe, allow the reproduction of non-immunes, considering they should be kept behind fences and any outbreak immediately dealt. That, again, matches with the Hotakainens story.

We didn't see what was happening in small isolated communities.  I don't think we'd see it in large communities such as Mora, where you have a lot of immunes in a position to construct fortifications and help defend the non-immunes, as you suggest.  But a very small community might well decide they were better off reducing the gene pool and hoping to survive that way long enough to meet up with other survivors.  In fact, there might be numerous such small purely immune communities, which make contact through brave explorers, and then meet up in relatively safe circumstances (say, a Yuletide celebration) where the young people from different communities meet up, and maybe move from one community to another.

Within the Known World, I think the northern area of Finland looks like a good possibility for this.  I've long imagined scouts like Lalli occasionally going to the very edge of their patrol area, and sometimes finding old campfires with no sign of who might have been there.  Outside of the Known World, networks of immune communities like this might exist in any area in the frozen North.

The non-immune couple that is banned from having kids and decides to move away to the wild, or to search for another community, so they can realize their dream looks like a good starting point for a story...

Indeed!

[lwise]

But a very small community might well decide they were better off reducing the gene pool and hoping to survive that way long enough to meet up with other survivors.  In fact, there might be numerous such small purely immune communities, which make contact through brave explorers, and then meet up in relatively safe circumstances (say, a Yuletide celebration) where the young people from different communities meet up, and maybe move from one community to another.

A very small community might have started out purely immune.  If 1% are immune, then 1/10,000 couples will be both immune, as would be their children.  In a small town, you might have one surviving family with a few other immunes that reached them as all the non-immunes in their original community died off.  There would be a certain desperation to find other communities so as to avoid either dying off or surviving via incest.

[dmeck7755]

A very small community might have started out purely immune.  If 1% are immune, then 1/10,000 couples will be both immune, as would be their children.  In a small town, you might have one surviving family with a few other immunes that reached them as all the non-immunes in their original community died off.  There would be a certain desperation to find other communities so as to avoid either dying off or surviving via incest.

Which brings in other bad things to a gene pool

[Jitter]

One of my ideas that I have never started on: encountering a tribe of people who consider non-immunity to be a weakness and a sign from the gods that the baby should not be let to live. Perhaps even consider non-immune babies to not be humans at all. After all, there are gods that are not very nice at all.

Regarding the dangers of diminishing the gene pool, after a couple of generations people could well have forgotten why it’s not a good idea to have kids with your first cousins. Again, not in Mora, but in smaller communities and particularly isolated ones. The more obvious signs of inbreeding don’t necessarily show in the first or second generation (depending on the starting point of course). Humans have an incest taboo that is probably at least partially biological in origin, but it doesn’t work 100%. Think of e.g. the Pharaohs.

[lwise]

One of my ideas that I have never started on: encountering a tribe of people who consider non-immunity to be a weakness and a sign from the gods that the baby should not be let to live. Perhaps even consider non-immune babies to not be humans at all. After all, there are gods that are not very nice at all.

The same grim idea has occurred to me too.  Non-immunes are allowed to breed, but newborns are intentionally exposed to the Rash.  In one generation, you have no more non-immune young people.

Regarding the dangers of diminishing the gene pool, after a couple of generations people could well have forgotten why it’s not a good idea to have kids with your first cousins. Again, not in Mora, but in smaller communities and particularly isolated ones. The more obvious signs of inbreeding don’t necessarily show in the first or second generation (depending on the starting point of course). Humans have an incest taboo that is probably at least partially biological in origin, but it doesn’t work 100%. Think of e.g. the Pharaohs.

All true.  In the first generation, though, you might not have any problems at all (again depending on starting point), and that may give time for your little community to find another.

My parents read science fiction, and had a collection of post-apocalypse stories and novels from the 40s and 50s, which investigated that kind of problem.  There were little things I learned from them.  Like, sleep in furniture stores as you travel around looking for other survivors.  Or, find a source of salt, because you'll need it (that one comes from Alas, Babylon, a novel from 1958).  I watched a video about how medieval people got salt from brine, because they needed it to preserve meat; the people in Alas, Babylon, had what amounted to a salt mine, though.

In one story from that time (I don't remember the title), a man and a woman survive an apocalypse, but can't find any other survivors.  They discuss whether they should have children, comparing notes on known genetic diseases; they don't find any in common, so they have children, which turn out to be all girls.  The woman teaches her daughters always to call their father by his name, never as "Father" or "Dad", because, well, you know ...

[thegreyarea]

The same grim idea has occurred to me too.  Non-immunes are allowed to breed, but newborns are intentionally exposed to the Rash.  In one generation, you have no more non-immune young people.

All true.  In the first generation, though, you might not have any problems at all (again depending on starting point), and that may give time for your little community to find another.
...

As those small communities probably don't have access to medical resources to assert immunity, I can easily see the process of exposing newborns to the rash becoming a ritual.

It would have a practical side, allowing the identification of those "too weak" to live, but could also assume a religious meaning: "Let's ask the gods if this child shall live."

I can also see another story here: A couple that decides to flee before birth to avoid having their baby tested.

As for the incest, I see that happening in very small and isolated groups, but the knowledge and the social taboo associeted with it would last for a long time, I believe, and deter any community that had another option, even if it implies some travelling...

As I considered that, I recalled finding that isolated tribes in the Amazonian forest have, deeply embebed into their old traditions (that predate any cultural contact with the rest of the World), an absolute  prohibition regarding any marriage or relationship between people from the same tribe.
Those tribes populations are usually 30-50 people, and they live far enough from each other to spend weeks or months without contact with any another tribe.
So they organize meetings between tribes where they exchange people. When they are peaceful, which seems to be most of the time, men and women on the proper age travel, sometimes for days, to attend festivals where they have the chance to meet someone deemed suitable by them and by their families.
If they are at war they may capture woman from other tribes, but AFAIK they don't go to war for that reason.
If a tribe doesn't have access to any woman from outside for a long time (if they live too far in the forest, or are unnable to attend meetings, or there's some other cultural or religious reason), the young men will depart and move to other tribes, and that tribe will disappear as the remaining members get old and die.

BTW, you're lucky to have parents with such good literary taste, lwise! I had to resort to some older cousins...

[lwise]

As those small communities probably don't have access to medical resources to assert immunity, I can easily see the process of exposing newborns to the rash becoming a ritual.

It would have a practical side, allowing the identification of those "too weak" to live, but could also assume a religious meaning: "Let's ask the gods if this child shall live."

I can also see another story here: A couple that decides to flee before birth to avoid having their baby tested.

As for the incest, I see that happening in very small and isolated groups, but the knowledge and the social taboo associeted with it would last for a long time, I believe, and deter any community that had another option, even if it implies some travelling...

In this case there would need to be some reason why small and isolated groups don't immediately merge as soon as they find each other.  Perhaps they're in a safe place that they don't want to give up, but which is too small to allow another group to move in.  Or perhaps each group has access to certain resources, and they're better off staying where they are and trading rather than giving up a resource.

As long as we're considering immunes and non-immunes, a long time back I played with the notion of an immunity-based feudal system.  Sure, the immunes are protecting the non-immunes, so they expect protection money ... lots of protection money.  In that case, the immunes would have an incentive *not* to allow the gene to spread, keeping the non-immunes as a permanent oppressed class, unable to flee or even fight back, since wiping out their "protectors" would mean dying horribly as the trolls moved in.

Perhaps such a society exists somewhere deep in the northern mountains, and our heroes could stumble upon it.

BTW, you're lucky to have parents with such good literary taste, lwise! I had to resort to some older cousins...

I definitely think I was lucky.  Once I finished off their books, I read every science fiction book I could find in the school library and public library, until I was old enough to buy my own.

[Jitter]

Oh, that feudal idea is so cool! The immune warrior caste enslaving the non-immunes as serfs. Maybe it would take a bit longer than the 90 years, or be located somewhere else than the Nordics where people tend to be proud of the relative equality of our societies. But even in the nordic area, a group that ran out of ammunition and had no technology to produce more, and protectors of villages would have to bodily go to guard the perimeter… yes, it’s definitely a scenario that I can see!

[lwise]

Oh, that feudal idea is so cool! The immune warrior caste enslaving the non-immunes as serfs. Maybe it would take a bit longer than the 90 years, or be located somewhere else than the Nordics where people tend to be proud of the relative equality of our societies. But even in the nordic area, a group that ran out of ammunition and had no technology to produce more, and protectors of villages would have to bodily go to guard the perimeter… yes, it’s definitely a scenario that I can see!

Even in the Nordic nations, you could have murderous criminals who turn out to be immune and come up with a scheme like this almost immediately.

[thegreyarea]

In this case there would need to be some reason why small and isolated groups don't immediately merge as soon as they find each other.  Perhaps they're in a safe place that they don't want to give up, but which is too small to allow another group to move in.  Or perhaps each group has access to certain resources, and they're better off staying where they are and trading rather than giving up a resource.

As long as we're considering immunes and non-immunes, a long time back I played with the notion of an immunity-based feudal system.  Sure, the immunes are protecting the non-immunes, so they expect protection money ... lots of protection money.  In that case, the immunes would have an incentive *not* to allow the gene to spread, keeping the non-immunes as a permanent oppressed class, unable to flee or even fight back, since wiping out their "protectors" would mean dying horribly as the trolls moved in.

Perhaps such a society exists somewhere deep in the northern mountains, and our heroes could stumble upon it.

As for reasons for those small groups or tribes not to merge, I believe it's all related to resources.
Hunter-gatherers need access to a large area, therefore the size of their communities is limited by the relation between the available resources on that enviroment and the distance thay can travel. When a communiy grows the area expands beyond a practical limit (let's say the distance they can move during a day) forcing the group to split or starve.
If you have substantial agriculture it all changes, but small groups would have a hard time creating protected areas for agriculture, particularly if they don't have natural barriers (a small island might work, but there would always exist the risk of water beasts, or beasts that cross over a fallen tree, etc...)

The feudal idea is indeed very interesting. One can see how easy it could be to slip in that direction after the Rash, particularly if the immunes used religion to justify their power. They could picture themselves as "chosen" or "protected" by the gods.

I'm imagining medieval fortresses turning again into the center of villages... At least in Europe we have many of them. Of course the ones in the middle of large cities wouldn't be useful because they would be surrounded by trolls, but there's a good number of them on isolated areas, or with just a few buildings around, which would be easy to clean.

As an example, here's the fortress at Almeida, near the Portuguese frontier (with Spain. We don't have frontiers with anyone else...   )

Spoiler: show

And there's also a beautiful video of it.

 

[lwise]

I'm imagining medieval fortresses turning again into the center of villages... At least in Europe we have many of them. Of course the ones in the middle of large cities wouldn't be useful because they would be surrounded by trolls, but there's a good number of them on isolated areas, or with just a few buildings around, which would be easy to clean.

I've thought about all your beautiful European fortresses and how great they'd be in these circumstances.  If a small group moved in, there might even be enough space within the medieval walls for them to farm.  We don't really have anything like that around here.  In fact, where I live, we also don't have islands or mountains, so surviving the Rash apocalypse here would take some doing!

[thegreyarea]

I've thought about all your beautiful European fortresses and how great they'd be in these circumstances.  If a small group moved in, there might even be enough space within the medieval walls for them to farm.  We don't really have anything like that around here.  In fact, where I live, we also don't have islands or mountains, so surviving the Rash apocalypse here would take some doing!

Some time ago I was doing research for a story that would happen in Portugal but on the SSSS Universe, and I had fun finding places where survivors could settle. There's a huge number of suitable fortifications! Some are small castles, but there are a few very large ones. Évora is a 50.000 habitants city that has a large system of walls that date as far back as the romans.

Spoiler: show

I imagine that after a few years of cleansing and demolitions (to liberate áreas for agriculture) the central area of Evora, that now houses some 25.000, could be the home of 5 to 10 thousand survivors, that would also cultivate areas outside the walls, returning home for the night.

May I ask where do you live? Just the area/city, no need to write the full adress (postal code included).
Anyway, even on a plain area there's always something... probably a river. If you get a U shaped curve it's only necessary to create a small section of wall to protect that area. And than you also have water supply and some fishing, maybe even aquaculture.
If there's a lake building houses over stilts could also be a solution. There were several villages around the world using that solution. It's particularly good to protect from small critters, infected or not.

[lwise]

I live in central Oklahoma.  I don't have a lot of experience with the sort of river you're thinking of.  Our rivers generally consist of a shallow stream flowing through a lot of sandbars, though they can occasionally turn into a raging torrent.    We do have lakes and reservoirs, but I don't know how long those would persist without maintenance.

[dmeck7755]

I live in the Northeast US one of the most populous areas of the US.  There *is* no place to hide for us

[lwise]

I live in the Northeast US one of the most populous areas of the US.  There *is* no place to hide for us

Don't you have offshore islands?