Author Topic: The Gardening Thread  (Read 43982 times)

Róisín

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2018, 07:09:54 PM »
Ana, I think you are right. I certainly don't intend to stop gardening because of some plants being poisonous! And yeah, having raised children, I well know that the little darlings will put *anything* in their mouths. It's something that one needs always to bear in mind.

Thorny, I agree that a lot of people, cityfolk in particular, are totally unaware even of the concept of poisonous plants, and many others have mistaken beliefs about how to determine whether or not something is poisonous: with flowering plants they often believe that things that taste nice are okay, that particular colours or shapes are always safe or unsafe, that cooking always destroys toxins, or that anything you see being eaten by a bird or animal is safe to eat. All of these ideas are utterly wrong.

One of the things I do IRL is teach foraging and wildcrafting, including examining and certifying the skills of those foragers who collect ingredients for wild food and bush-tucker restaurants in my area, so I do my best to keep my knowledge base active and up to date. But there will always be those who are careless or stupid in such matters. With fungi in particular, accurate identification is absolutely crucial, because many of the really deadly ones, such as death caps, are pleasant tasting, as are such things as the berries of potatoes and deadly nightshade (belladonna).

Sc0ut: I think thorny is right that JoB may not know what you do and don't know, and I would add that 'pedant' seems to be what he does, and is in his nature - I don't think he means to be nasty. As a well-meaning information nerd myself, I sometimes get misinterpreted the same way!

Iris leaves can also be poisonous, but people and animals seldom eat them because of the fibrous texture and unpleasant taste; the rhizomes are a little easier to eat because not quite so stringy and tough, though still not something one would eat unless one were a dog or a small child.

Something else I should have mentioned: many botanic gardens and some museums maintain databases of poisonous plants, many of which are accessible to the public. Does your country have a Museum of Economic Botany or equivalent? Might be worth looking online for such, or visiting and asking for information sheets if they have such. I know that the Adelaide and Melbourne Botanic Gardens, as well as the National Botanic Garden in Canberra, do publish such information, which may be of more use to you than you might think, since being Botanic Gardens they have a lot of information on European plants as well as local ones. Many sites dedicated to foraging and wild food also contain such information, especially about poisonous plants similar enough in appearance to edible ones that mistakes may occur.

That link you put up is interesting, thanks! I knew about the role of bird digestion in dispersing and breaking dormancy for some seeds, because it is an issue that sometimes comes up in the groups I belong to which propagate rare food plants. One of the things we work on is how to germinate the seeds of plants of which the bird symbiont is now rare or extinct, or not to be found in our area. Quandong and sandalwood seeds aren't too hard, soaking and exposure to heat will often serve in the stead of the digestive tract of an emu, which is what they use in the wild. Something I am working on at present is the germination of Acrotriche seeds, Acrotriche plants being notoriously difficult to propagate in captivity. I was talking to a very old lady whose grandparents were among the pioneers of the Adelaide Hills about the many healthy and productive Acrotriche plants on her property (they are rare and slow-growing), and she mentioned that they came up spontaneously wherever her dad had dumped the residue from his homebrewing when she was a kid. He brewed a fruit wine from the berries, and something in the fermenting process stimulated germination of the seeds, which normally depend on the digestion of birds and small marsupials such as bandicoots and bilbies. She gave me a couple of kilos of the fruit, which I shared with several interested folk, and we are trying different fermentation methods to see what gives the best results. Sorry to go off at a tangent, but thought this might interest you.

I have a couple of European books with information about poisonous wild and garden plants, I'll try to track down titles and authors.
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Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2018, 09:50:16 AM »
.. would cut-up milk carton serve the same purpose as mulch? I'm trying to protect my potted plants a little bit better this year than last, and I'm not quite sure what to use for mulch.

There's a 20 L water reservoir underneath, and I'm thinking of covering the whole thing in a similar fashion, and hope rainwater will drain to the reservoir along the side of the carton.
Good idea or bad idea?

Róisín

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2018, 11:21:30 AM »
Are your milk cartons plastic lined? If they are, bad idea. Plants need air circulation in their soil; not as much as around their leaves, but some. A mulch of straw, plain shredded cardboard or paper, even dead leaves, would work better. Keeping the fruit off the dirt makes it less likely to rot, but still lets air get into the soil. If you can get lucerne hay that is perfect, as it is for roses, because it feeds the plants as it breaks down as well as retaining moisture in the soil.
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Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2018, 12:16:03 PM »
Thank you Róisín! They're not plastic lined but they are waxed, wich would probably also contribute to restricted air circulation. Lucerne hay I don't know if I can get (maybe in pet shops?) but plain shredded cardboard shouldn't be too hard. The closest renovation station sells bark- is that better?

Róisín

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2018, 07:41:11 PM »
Bark is also good, if it's broken up.
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Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2018, 03:20:06 PM »
Thank you! We participate in a community garden where we also have about 20 m2 we can plant. Last year was the very first year for the garden, and involved a lot of picking rocks and roots apart, but a nice wield of sweet peas(I think that's the english name?), radish, 10-cm long but very many-fingered carrots and lots of cornflowers. And, erm, weeds because the seeds and roots were already there and they had got plenty of fertilizer. And so we want to protect the garden just a bit from evaporation and maaybe just a bit less weeds this year. So bark it will be!

Sc0ut

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2018, 03:50:09 PM »
I've read bark is risky as mulch in gardens next to houses, because it can encourage the growth of a particularly nasty mold that can then infect walls. Have you ever heard about that, Róisín (or others)? I'll look up some sources tomorrow if needed. I'm really tired tonight but wanted to ask before I forget.

thorny

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2018, 05:02:23 PM »
Possibly not an issue at all in your area: but find out what species of tree the bark is from; and, if you can't find out, then find out whether black walnut or any other species of concern for this issue is common in the area. Black walnut puts out a chemical called juglone, and some trees might put out other things, that can prevent or discourage the growth of many garden vegetables (though some things don't mind it.)

Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2018, 03:37:36 PM »
Thank you, Sc0ut and Thorny. Not sure what trees the bark is from, as it doesn't say on the information sheet, but I guarantee it's not black walnut, which doesn't grow here. Most likely a mix of the most common trees: fir, pine and birch, with some willow, maple, ash, alder, hazel and rowan thrown in. I'll ask. 

Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2018, 06:05:51 AM »
I never got around to buying bark, but I've picked some of the woolly burdock that grows in large patches everywhere, and used that instead. Seems to be working pretty well, except on windy days when crumbled leaves fly around.

Then a question about the tomato - when I planted it, I didn't have enough earth to fill the pot completely, and now I don't think I can manage a repotting without breaking something. Will the stem get sad if I load earth - and mulch - on top of what's there?


thorny

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2018, 05:15:21 PM »
A tomato plant will probably just grow roots along the newly buried stem.

When potting up or transplanting out tomatoes, it's fairly standard to plant them deeper than they were, so that the stem can do that; it gives them more roots to feed themselves with.

Note: this doesn't work with everything. But I wouldn't expect a problem with tomatoes.

Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2018, 06:06:43 PM »
Thank you, Thorny!

Róisín

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2018, 01:19:55 AM »
What thorny said about the tomatoes, that technique of partially burying the base of the stem to allow the formation of more feeder roots also works well for sweet corn, and if you do it for potatoes it allows the formation of lots more potatoes all along the buried part of the stem. You just need to make sure all the extra potatoes are well shielded from the light, since potato tubers are actually a modified food-storage organ developed from a stem, and like the stems and leaves of any solanaceous plant, they develope chlorophyll in any parts exposed to sunlight. The chlorophyll in itself is not a problem - indeed chlorophyll is actually good for you. But in the Solanaceae (the family which includes potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, eggplant, henbane and belladonna) the chlorophyll is chemically linked to a group of poisonous alkaloids, mostly solanine, atropine, hyoscyamine, mandragorine and other tropanes. Much safer not to eat the green parts of anything solanaceous. Green-skinned potatoes are not safe to eat, even when peeled.

And Unlos, I am so envious of your wealth of burdock! I can't imagine having enough to be able to use it for mulch. I grow the Japanese burdock variety 'Gobo', both for the edible parsnip-like roots, from which one can also make a nice beer, and for the leaves which make useful food wrap if, for instance, I am carrying a sandwich when I go out for the day I will wrap it in a burdock leaf. I remember my gran using burdock leaves to wrap pats of butter on her pre-refrigeration farm.

The plants I grow for instant mulch are Mullein (Verbascum thapsus) and Vetivert Grass (Vetiveria or Cymbopogon zizanioides), both of which are also pretty plants with uses in medicine, craft and perfumery. But if you have enough burdock leaves they should be fine as mulch!
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Unlos

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2018, 02:36:12 AM »
Thank you for your in depht answer and further insight into the Solanaceas, Róisín! And I had never thought someone would envy me all the burdock, which is by many here considered a weed, or at least ignored by all but children looking  for a Totoro-like umbrella. Ah, when we have that magical portal I will invite you to a walk along Mærrabekken, for discovering and discussing its secrets and where the ferns grow taller than you!
(Not quite as tall as me but very nearly)

Róisín

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Re: The Gardening Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2018, 07:43:41 AM »
 Would love that. Especially when it is high Summer here with temperatures in the forties, I like the thought of a magical portal to a place with ferns, snow and other things I like. Burdock can be a pest with its spiky seeds and easy spreading in climates that suit it, which is not the case here! But if you were to look it up you would find a multitude of traditional uses as a dye, food, brewing, craft and medicinal plant, not to mention as a shelter for a lot of tiny frogs and lizards as it is in my garden. Another reason it would likely make good mulch is that the deep roots bring up mineral nutrients from deep in the soil, as do the roots of Vetivert, Mullein and Comfrey, and as the leaves of all these plants decay the minerals become available to your plants and topsoil.
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