Q.: What’s your kitty’s name?
A. (0:05:04): Her real name is Tiutu but I just call her Kisu. Because when we were deciding on her name, when we adopted her, it took like two months for us to come up with the name so we just, everyone started calling her different nicknames.
Q.: Do you ever scold your kitty and why?
A. (2:22:58): Very rarely. There are times when I shout at her to scare her away from doing what she’s doing, like, if she’s on the kitchen table and I see her starting to eat something or if she sneaks up and starts eating my food right next to me then I go like “HEEH” so she stops eating and I can get my food back. She ate a bit of my ketchup yesterday. It was so sad, I had to go clean it up… But my kitty is really good, she never does anything bad; she doesn’t scratch any furniture inside, she only scratches the tree outside. That’s good.
Q.: Have you read Scandinavia and the World? It's what got me interested in Scandinavian stuff like SSSS in the first place and I wondered what you thought of it
A. (0:08:43): I’ve read some of it. I haven’t read the new ones but I’ve read something which can be considered as “classic” from the beginning and really liked it. My mom also really likes them. I think she keeps up with the new ones.
Q.: Just out of curiosity, do you know how long SSSS is in terms of wordcount?
A. (0:54:20): No idea. I am not able to estimate.
Q.: About how much time a week do you dedicate to SSSS?
A. (0:55:40): Just comic pages - one is about 15 hours, so 60 hours is a pretty good average estimate. On top of that, a few hours here and there for random stuff I have to do like managing the website and social media and I guess we could call the streams time spent on SSSS too.
Q.: Do you have any favorite comic/manga characters?
A. (1:17:22): Not really any super-favorites, usually when I like a comic or manga I like the whole cast of characters and the story. But as favorites, maybe Scrooge McDuck and Tintin would be characters that I just like as characters. In manga...I dunno...I can’t really think of any specific character that would be, like, the greatest. For some reason, though, in anime (maybe also manga, I don’t know if there’s a manga)... I watched an anime called Black Cat years ago and I don’t remember anything about the story or what it was about but I remember that I really, really liked the main character. He had a really cool design. That’s the only thing I remember about the anime, so I guess that would also be one character I really liked.
But yeah, I usually don’t fixate on a single character, which I guess is why we don’t really have a main character in SSSS and also [why] other ideas that I have don’t really have main characters. Or I might have main characters, but not one lead; I have usually an equal cast of at least a couple. Like, even in A Redtail’s Dream Hannu and Ville are both the main characters rather than only one of them being.
Q.: Do you think you'd be the kind of person to enjoy MMORPG's?
A. (1:22:59): Yeah, I would, if I had time to get into them. When I was a kid, I was really into Room Escape, the only real MMORPG that I’ve played, but I haven’t played World of Warcraft, I didn’t have the money. I did play Guild Wars but I don’t know if that counts, because when you do quests and stuff you can only have, like, ten people in your party, so it wasn’t super multiplayer-ish. But yeah.
Q.: James is very happy about your music choices-- could you share some of your favorite bands and genres?
A. (1:27:10): Well, lots of my favourite bands are the ones in these playlists, and my favorite genres are obviously different Nordic folk things - I like both folk metal and folk rock and straight-up traditional folksy type of music. There’s not that many bands but there’s, like, a dozen in total that I like music from. From some I like one or two songs, but that’s enough. Other than that, I just listen to music from video games that I like, if I’m in the mood for it. And I guess I like typical popular music, I’m not super-picky about what I like. But when I want to be in the mood for drawing SSSS I listen to Nordic folk music of different genres.
Q.: Do you like Garmarna?
A. (1:58:40): I think I listen to them because the name is familiar but I don’t remember so I can’t say.
Q.: Last music question I promise: do you like Heilung or are they maybe too aggressive for your taste? You mentioned liking folk metal. Also Garmarna and RAN?
A. (1:59:10): I haven’t actually heard of Heilung, I have to check them out. I haven’t heard of RAN. I might like them. I don’t like super heavy metal. If they are that kind, I have a sort of love-hate relationship with heavy metal. I like some music, but other very similar becomes just screaming and I can’t hear the words and I can’t hear the tune. So with metal bands is like that: I listen to one song and I like it and then I listen to 40 others by them and I don’t like them. I’ll definitely check them out.
Q.: Any sci-fi settings you really like?
A. (1:37:16): Yes, I like sci-fi settings where there is some sort of AI speculation involved, like, what would happen once humans are not the smartest on planet Earth anymore, and another setting is horror and space, you know, space diseases and stuff like that. Alien and Dead Space. And Apollo-18. You know, “Why did we never return to the Moon?” And the reason is always “scary stuff on the Moon.”
Q.: Any update on the books going out?
A. (2:16:00): Yes, the first, one-book- only tier has already started going out, some of you have already got your notices. That’s like 800 people. They will all have been shipped out mid-to-late next week, and then they will move on to the next tiers. The first 800 people, your books will start going out within the week.
Q.: Which of the folklores/mythologies will be predominant in the next adventure, Finnish or Norse?
A. (muted): You’ll see. I mean, they’ll both be very prominent, but, yeah, one of them is gonna be predominant.
Q.: What are some of the other ideas for bonus comics you have so far for the other two books?
A. (2:47:00): I haven’t decided yet. There are too many ideas, I don’t have any good specific ones to share.
Q.: How much time inside of the story is going to pass between the end of the first adventure and the beginning of the second one? Or it starts just right after?
A. (4:08:01): It’s gonna start right after. I think it’s gonna be like one or two weeks between, there won’t be like a 10 year time skip.
Q.: Whose fashion sense is most like your own? What outfit have you drawn that you would like to wear the most?
A. (4:10:07): Let’s see… One of these three [Sigrun’s, Mikkel’s or Emil’s]. I wouldn’t wear anything that’s too weird, I don’t want to be really noticed by people when I’m outside, so Emil’s is pretty nice, but Mikkel’s and Sigrun’s jackets are also fairly okay. One of those. [pauses] I’m one of those people who like to move around the world as a so-called “gray man”, one who people just don’t even notice that is there. [pauses] It can be a little bit tricky because if you wear too nice clothes people will be all “oh, your clothes are so nice!” but if you wear too ugly clothes, people will look at you with “ugh, who’s that hobo? homeless woman”. Heheheh.
Q.: I get the idea of being invisible - I’m now middle-aged, and am truly invisible, and I LOVE IT. It’s the best.
A. (4:14:35): Yes, I really do also enjoy kind of going outside and knowing that nobody’s gonna say hello, hahah. Well it doesn’t really work in my town, it’s a small place that, if you go past an old lady she might just go “Hello! How’s your day?” and then you have to stand and talk with her. She goes: “Oh, you’re that artist girl, oh, how’s it going?” No, they don’t actually know I’m an artist, the old people in this town think that I’m an author. They know that I make books and hahah, they don’t really understand that I make comics. Except one old couple, they’re almost my neighbors, and they, I obviously run across them now and then and they have, apparently looked up my website and checked out my comic and went: “Oh, yes, very interesting work.” [laughs.] Seen all the horrible mutants that are drawn and blood and guts spilling out. [pauses] They genuinely think it’s cool, they weren’t like “Ugh, mnn, interesting young people stuff.” [laughs]
Q.: I wish I was invisible, I get catcalled all the time… do you have any pointers?
A. (4:16:23): Well uhh, I did get catcalled sometimes when I was like actually wearing nice clothes I guess, so you know, nowadays I just wear like, how would you call it, a windbreaker jacket, like the kind you wear when you’re just, you know, it’s autumn and you might go for a walk in the woods and, you know. Worn out pants, kinda baggy, and you know, everything’s kinda grey, white, black. My hair is just in a ponytail, I don’t have it, like, done anything extra with it. Almost no makeup when I go out and, you know, stuff like that. People don’t really notice me. I guess it’s really, you know, if you live in a big city, I mean, people are gonna think, if you’re a woman, someone’s gonna think you’re pretty. You can look like a hobo and some hobo is gonna be “hey, pretty lady!” [laughs.] So you know, I guess you just have to accept that you’re attractive. But yeah, just wearing really boring clothes helps a lot.
Q.: How do you deal with creepy guys?
A. (muted): When they walk up to me I scream “GO AWAY” in their faces and run away.
Q.: There have been a few panels that made me wonder if you ever tried to get NSFW things past the radar or write/draw them as a joke or pun. Is that something you do or was my mind in the gutter?
A. (4:26:06): I think your mind might have been in the gutter, heheh, I haven’t done that.
Q.: Did you plant anything in your garden this year?
A. (4:47:15): Yes, I planted a few carrots. I won’t eat them, I just like watching them grow and have a reason to go out and water something now and then. And I still have a long-term, I don’t know what they’re called, but they’re like mini spruce trees, that are supposed to be like strawberry, but they don’t have leaves, they are evergreen. I have one that almost died the first year, a couple years ago, so I go outside every other day and water it really carefully and look if it’s getting better or if it’s still dying. But no, it has survived, so I go outside and look if it’s grown at all. I’m not much for planting anything, because I’m kinda lazy, but the old lady who lived here before me was great at planting and planted a lot of perennials, so they keep coming up, lots of flowers and stuff, and I don’t have to do anything, my garden is really pretty. All I do is cut the grass and prune the strawberry thing.
Q.: Have you seen those draw the squad prompts on the internet? Would you ever do one of those for the crew?
A. (0:24:44): No, I don’t know what that is. Sometimes I see on Twitter “draw your 10 favourite characters” or “draw a bunch of eyes” but I don’t know what the crew prompt is. And I don’t think I would do that kind of challenges. I find them a little boring since I have my own ideas. When you are limited by time, you have to choose what you draw and what you don’t.
Drawing: Inspirations, Techniques, Process
Q.: Do you use a pen or a mouse to do the line drawing?
A. (2:00:50): I have a tablet and a stylus, so pen, definitely not a mouse. It’s a twelve inch tablet. I have had it for about 5 years.
Q.: Have you ever worked with Corel Painter for the watercolor capabilities?
A. (4:42:06): No. I actually had Corel Painter, it came with some device that I bought, but my computer is not powerful enough for it, so it’s super-laggy. I tried it and it seemed cool, but I wasn’t able to do anything. I’ll definitely try it out in the future if I upgrade my computer.
Q.: Given you've had your tablet so long, would you ever consider one of the large on-screen style tablets? Or do you want to work with this one until it's done?
A. (2:07:00): Actually, I really want one of the large ones, like 27 inches, its really big, but they are so expensive, they are like, 5000. I’m waiting until I’m in situation where I can spend that kind of money. Of course I can spend it, it’s for my job, but I don’t want to buy it and then regret it. The current one was a big investment, 1000, when I was 20. It would be bad if I bought one of them and then wouldn’t like drawing on one of them. It would just sit on the table and every time I would look at it i would be like “Ugh, 5000”. Yeah, I want it and eventually I’ll be able to afford it because I make okay money from my comic but I’m not quite there yet, maybe next year. I have bought a used tablet for 600$, a 10 year old model. Yeah, it’s stupid but I like it and so I have a backup if this one breaks and I won’t find another model I like.
Q.: Is the red-grey-white colour scheme indicative of the new adventure, or just something you felt like drawing?
A. (0:09:50): No, it’s just what I like drawing. The comic’s “official” color theme has been purple, tan, and red, so it’s pretty similar to that. I just went with a little bit less purple this time.
Q.: Over the course of the comic, the way the characters are drawn has become slightly more simplified and consistent. Was this a conscious choice to make them easier to draw, or just the result of "getting to know them" by drawing them so many times?
A. (1:14:34): It’s the latter. I’ve become more consistent with them as I’ve become more used to drawing them. And the reason why things are more simplified is that it’s the way my style has developed. And also if you’re not secure in how things are supposed to look you overcompensate it by drawing a lot of extra lines to make a bit more ambiguous so it’s not that clear that you don’t really know what you’re doing.
Q.: Is there a character you particularly enjoy drawing?
A. (0:28:18): It varies. Sometimes I really like drawing Reynir, sometimes I really like drawing Emil, sometimes I really like drawing Lalli, that depends. Yeah, they are fun to draw. It’s just that usually I draw a particular setting and one of the characters fits the setting better than others.
Q.: Any advice for aspiring artists who are just starting out drawing?
A. (5:18:02): Well I would say find something that you really enjoy drawing because you have to draw like every day to get better for several hours. When I was starting out what I’d like to draw was just drawings of pokemon, that’s all I wanted to draw. Find something that you like to draw and an artist whose style you would like to learn to draw in and just, not really copy but try to draw like them and the subject matter that you like because really the only thing that matters is that you draw a lot and the hard thing is staying motivated. If you have really good discipline you can, the best thing is to draw anatomy practices and color studies and live drawings and stuff. But that can be really boring so if you start with that and don’t have the discipline, you might give up really easily, so that’s why it’s usually a good idea to draw something that you enjoy drawing. At least you get over like the first couple of years when you’re kinda really bad at drawing no matter what. And then once you worked off a little bit of confidence, then kinda work in more of that proper studying stuff.
Q.: I love a lot of the folk-art touches in your work. Would you be willing to talk a little bit about the inspiration for your art?
A. (1:48:47): Well, the inspiration is just folk art in general, Scandinavian, of course, and Nordic. I have some books which I draw visual inspiration from, like the Kalevala, and books about Nordic creatures and stuff, and of course I collect stuff online. Like, I have folders with folksy-looking images. But I don’t really have specific titles I can give. When you grow up in a culture, you see the visuals [regularly] so you know what to look for.
Specifically for this [the crew’s second adventure outfits], I knew what to look for to get Norwegian patterns like the Norwegian Lusekofte, I know what Icelandic sweaters look like, and I kinda know what the Karelian/Eastern Finnish kind of Kalevala-type attire are, and then Emil has Dala-type patterns.
Q.: Hi! You do "Dala"-art VERY well!
A. (1:51:54): Well thank you! I do always make sure that I look at references before I design something so that I don’t misremember what the visual style is.
Q.: Do you have a favorite runestone carving you take inspiration from? Like Jelling or Ringerike?
A. (3:39:15): No, I just, if I like, design something that uses that imagery, I just take a bunch of different styles and, you know, pick out my favorite shapes and use those. I guess the main trace I used on the book covers so yeah, it’s not a specific one, it’s just an amalgamation of all of them.
Q.: Do you often draw across the canvas like this with different stages, or do you do lineart/inking/color in phases? Also, seeing the fine detailing on his [Lalli’s] sleeves and hood are wonderful!
A. (3:49:34): Thank you, and I do it with different ways depending on what type of drawing it is. Like the comic pages, I do all of the sketching in one go, like I have two pages next to each other. All of the sketching, then I do all of the inking, then I do all of the color sketching and then I do all of the finalizing of colors, like everything at once. If I do, like, more of a painterly thing, I might do a little bit of maybe someone’s face, all the way to the most detailed stage, then a little bit of something else, then a little bit of the background and go back and forth. In this kind of drawings, with it, like, very sectioned off, yeah I usually do it one character at a time, because it becomes very boring to do like everyone’s line art in one go, because then it feels like you’re not getting any closer to being finished, like right now I can be like “oh I have so much left to do”, but at least, like, these two [points at Reynir and Sigrun] are done and I can be happy about that. If all of them were in stage I guess that Emil is in, I would be feeling really tired right now. But now, doing it this way, I have at least one third of the drawing all finished. So I don’t feel as far away from the finish line, if that makes sense. So yeah, I do it a lot of different ways depending on how I feel about the drawing.
Q: Do our questions slow you down somehow?
A. (2:27:59): Yeah, I guess they slow me down in the way that I sometimes can’t think and draw at the same time. Or talk, or read. But it doesn’t really slow me down in the way that when I stream I draw a little bit faster, because when I’m not streaming I’m kinda going like *thiis* and *thiis* and then I’m thinking about something and listening to whatever, so it kinda evens out and my pace is about the same as when I draw by myself. I’m surprised by how much I’ve managed to produce during these streams. I was a little bit worried that I won’t be able to focus properly and draw anything, but the fact that I’ve been able to do one drawing every two weeks is really great.
Q.: Does talking out loud to the chat about your drawing help you figure out art decisions?
A. (0:34:18): Not really, talking out loud kinda just helps me keep focused, because otherwise I forget that I’m streaming while I’m drawing and start spacing out, especially when I start getting tired. But making art decisions? No, for me it’s easier to make crucial design decisions by myself, off-stream, which is why I did the initial sketches off-stream - because I had to do design decisions, and it’s harder to make such decisions kinda “under pressure”, I guess, because you might settle for something that isn’t super-great when you should discard it and start over. At least that’s my experience.
Writing: Character-creation, Pacing
Q.: In the beginning you said the first adventure would be about 5 books, but it turned out to be about 4. how did that come about?
A. (0:56:25): It came about mostly by me not being able to estimate how much space page-wise the books would take. Like a lot of the chapters turned out to be much shorter.
Q.: At the beginning of the latest chapter, you said you had months' worth of updates before this first arc ends. How much is left at this point? Will it end before the end of this year?
A. (0:15:51): Yes, it will end before the end of this year. I don’t think [] should have that much left, maybe like a couple of months left? I’m not sure of the exact page count and I wouldn’t reveal it anyway since then you would be able to feel when the end is near or stuff like that. But yeah, there’s not that much left and it’s less than I thought a couple of months ago, when I started the chapter because I’ve gone through like I usually do, like extra editing on the script and tightening and making sure it’s as good as possible and usually when I do that, I try to not really condense things but make things more efficient, like fit more panels on one page and stuff like that. And remove panels that don’t really add anything and drag on something for too long so I’ve been able to shorten the expected page count by maybe like a fourth. So yeah, maybe I thought this would be one month longer than it is going to actually be.
Q.: You mentioned that you sometimes change chapter outlines or change things around. What's your favourite scene that never made it into the comic?
A. (2:09:51): Um, I can’t remember if I actually given up any of my favourite scenes like that. Most scenes I cut out don’t add anything to the comic, like I notice I am just dragging on for too long on some bits so I just remove something, or I just notice that something is happening too soon in the story. Or if I remember I forgot to foreshadow something and I have to insert something. I haven’t removed any super cool awesome scenes.
Q.: You mentioned before that you thought about re-writing the story so that Tuuri would come out alright, but couldn't without changing future storylines. Could you give us an example of one, or are they going to be in the next SSSS comic?
A. (0:23:40): No, the future storylines would be completely different, like I would have to scrap one that comes next, for character developments which lead to some things in the next chapter which would otherwise not make sense. So yeah, I would have to come up with a completely different storyline and I was like “aghh, I can’t come up with anything interesting” and I would always wish I have done that from the beginning, because events are cascading and then I would have to scrap one after that too and so on and so on.
Q.: I hear that authors tend to write characters as projections of their own sort of internal monologue. I can easily see you doing so with Lalli and Onni in relation to their attitudes and social mannerisms.
A. (4:13:27): Yeah, I definitely use my own experiences when writing kinda socially withdrawn people, and then I have to really try to think outside my own head box when writing like Sigrun, Tuuri and Reynir, you know. It’s not too hard. Actually, it’s pretty easy to write characters that aren’t like yourself.
Q.: Do you have any advice on coming up with character traits or fitting names?
A. (4:50:50): The character traits. I, at least, come up with them by kinda imagining cool scenes, like, in the future of one of the story I’m thinking of, and the character traits can come from how I imagine the characters deal with each other and those cool scenes, and then I build from that. I might need some characters to fight with each other in a specific way, have arguments and stuff, and some characters I will need to be leaders and take control of situations, they’re characters that have to have some sort of inner strength to deal with this and that. It builds gradually, just by thinking about different scenes and building from that.
Eventually, when you have enough traits, you can decide which of them are the main traits of that character, unless you have person characters, it comes super-early, like, you think “oh, this is the trait of this character.” Some, you have to let them grow, and sometimes they change a lot, you can have a super nice character and then decide that they’re really boring and annoying and change almost everything suddenly, and you just have to let that happen when you make characters. The story is the important part. Some people come up with characters and build a story around them. No.
Shipping
Q.: How do you feel about characters being shipped etc? You seem to take a lot of care not to unintentionally disrupt peoples' visions if the story doesn't call for it but what does it feel like to know so much about other peoples' "headcanon" of your story?
A. (2:56:58): I don’t mind at all. It’s just a sign of people being into the comic. It’s kinda like cosplaying, you know you “made” it once there’s enough of a fan community to get those kinds of fan creations so yeah, I don’t mind it at all. I also kinda keep away from it, don’t visit fanfiction websites and the forum, so I don’t know that much about peoples’ headcanons, I only know if I happen to see something in the comments. I specifically try to stay away from it so that I don’t become too concerned about it; I don’t want to accidentally change the story to avoid breaking someone’s heart or something like that. So yeah, I don’t mind it at all. I’m sure eventually some people are going to be disappointed that their favorite thing didn’t happen but others will probably be more, I don’t know… validated in their favorite, whatever, pairing taste or how you would say.
City of Hunger
Q.: How's City of Hunger coming along?
A. (4:58:15): It’s coming along as great as one would expect. I’ve just finished Lalli’s and Onni’s running animations, so that means all of the animations are done, and I’ve been doing the super-boring part of cutting out every frame for every character, every run direction and standing still direction, and putting them into those, like, a “grid” file, because they all have to be in a grid for Unity to compound an animation, so I spent the whole day just doing that. Like, hundreds of frames of just people standing and looking in different directions. Argh! Almost done with that. I think I’m back to more interesting parts soon. There’s gonna be another update this Wednesday. At least, it’s time again, if I remember correctly. If not, then next week, if I remember incorrectly.
Q.: Are you still planning to work the whole thing [City of Hunger] through by yourself?
A. (2:35:54): Yes, I do plan to do it myself. Actually most of the work that’s left is drawing-related, like I need to draw the art for the story part of it. Most of the coding is almost done, all of the pieces are there, like 90%, some things I just need to add a little bit here and there, but the most time-consuming part is that I need to draw a lot of art. Once it’s done and I publish it, I’ll do something that requires minimal art and is mostly coding, so I have something completely different to work on on the side of drawing comics.
Q.: Could you give us a hint as to why Lalli and Onni have synthetic limbs in City of Hunger?
A. (0:14:14): No, that’s part of the story, and the story’s the most integral part of the game. Spoilers.
Profession
Q.: Speaking of earning your living as an artist, when did you make that transition and what has it been like for you?
A. (2:12:42): Well, that actually happened kind of right after I graduated university, which was when aRTD ended and SSSS started. I wasn’t actually making a living then but I was making like 700 bucks a month from prints and advertising money from the comic, that would have been right at the end of aRTD, and I was able to make a living from the kickstarter, or IndieGoGo from aRTD book ended. I kind of transitioned into doing the comic full-time after university, and I kind of had enough money saved up until the Indiegogo for the book was ready. I never had a real job, haha! (by the way, this song is my limit for screaminess in metal - Jökelväktaren by Vintersong) ...This is the real job, but I haven’t been employed by anyone, is what I mean. I haven’t gotten a paycheck.
Q.: Do you have any specific, long-term professional goals? Or are you just sort of focusing on the next couple of things in front of you?
A. (2:30:57):Yeah, I have long-term goals. I always feel bored if I don’t have long-term goals. One goal is I’ll be doing City of Hunger in next 5 years and then something else video game related. One goal is also to keep making SSSS. I try new ways to widen my audience, streaming is one way I would like to get more into in the future. I also have plans for when SSSS ends, I kinda know what my next comic is going to be, so I have plans for at least 10 years.
Q.: I recall you studied graphic design prior to comic-work; what is/are your favourite font(s)?
A. (2:34:47):Yes, that was what I was doing in university and I decided I hate doing that as a job, which is why I went into comics and the only font I know I’ve always liked is Garamond, the one I use in the comic for info-pages. It’s the only one I need: small caps for headings and stuff and normal font for everything else.
Q.: Do you feel like you earn enough from publishing your comics to live comfortably, in your opinion?
A. (5:11:27): Yes, especially since I live alone, I don’t have to pay any other persons anything. To me it’s a very good living, comfortable, at least, like I’m not worried about money. If I had a family to support, I would worry about my income. I kinda compare my salary to that of teachers’, because my mom’s a teacher, and I know how much she works every week; teachers don’t make that much in Finland, so I make more than she does. She has a real job that’s actually not hot and cold, that really matters. And I make more money than her, so yeah, I feel like I make a lot of money.
Finland is a really expensive place to live, almost as expensive as Norway, at least the cities, but people don’t make that much money, the medium income is 2500€ a month, which isn’t a lot if you compare it to US or something, where I see people freak out about making 3000€ a month and people go “wow, how can someone live on that, oh my god” and, you know, support family and everything, but people over here where it’s just as expensive to live on salaries of like 2000 or 3000 and I’m like “yeah, that’s a good salary.”
I’m kinda subjective since Finland used to be a really poor country in, like, the 70s. People would move to Sweden to work, because if you lived in Finland you might have starved, hehe. Swedish people said Finnish kids liked Christmas presents, because they you that Finnish people might not be able afford Christmas presents to their children or stuff like that.
