Disqus, infected

[viola]

Hey guys, this troll issue is really not something we need to worry about. Minna is perfectly capable of handling her comment section, and we are capable of handling the forum.

Really the more important thing to be aware of is that there is someone impersonating JoB in the comments and we need to be aware that we might not be talking to JoB when we see the name in the section.

Otherwise, everything is fine. We've dealt with trolls in the past and Minna has too. She can and will ban people she feels are a problem from her comment section, it's happened in the past. This really isn't an issue worth arguing over. It will happen again one day and probably even more often, and we will just keep going on being the awesome community we are and not let it get to us.

[Guardian G.I.]

I agree with Sc0ut and Gwenno.

As a pro-active measure I did some noodling and found pretty much everything about him, his name, his high school, college, some professors, current residence, where he works, etc.  - thus if his behaviour worsens to the point where it is absolutely necessary , then, measures can be taken .

Trying to dox people because you didn't like the tone of their comment on the Internet isn't a good thing to do.

[Lenny]

Troll or no, this thread is bringing out the worst in a lot of people.

There will be times when new commenters appear and we don't like what they're saying. This community is getting bigger, and these things will probably happen more often now. We may think that their opinions are unfair, that their tones are rude, and that they're out to pick a fight. These things could be due to a bias in our perception, a misunderstanding gone out of hand or they may well be true! Just remember that overwhelming an unfamiliar commenter may be unintentionally creating an environment which forces them to be defensive, makes them lash out, and produces rude 'troll like' behaviour from someone who feels under attack. Equally, we have gained good community members when we've treated these disagreeing commenters decently. Your own actions can be powerful, even when you don't intend on them to be.

You can't force everyone on the internet to live to your own standards, but you can live up to them yourself. Be the change you wish to see. It may be hard to do when you feel hurt not to reply in spite, but please hold back, both on the comments and on here. You'll be creating the world you hate, and become the monster you think you're fighting and worse. One of the many wonderful things about the internet is that you can take time to think before replying, a luxury that would be very appreciated in real life. Use this time to think about what you're saying, who it can hurt and what it can do.

Hey guys, this troll issue is really not something we need to worry about. Minna is perfectly capable of handling her comment section, and we are capable of handling the forum.

This, please.

As far as I can see, the only productive thing about this thread has been "hey, alert that people are becoming slightly unpleasant on an unaffiliated platform", and "warning, imposters are creeping in". The imposter issue is much more warning flag than the very minor troll, yet everyone's harping on about one person who is very easily dealt with through just ignoring him. It's not even as if he were posting on every comment that says the comic is good and contradicting him, he's just posting to his own original comment.

I'd also like to know why we are discussing someone essentially behind their back? *raises eyebrows* Not needed. I like the way this place is mostly conflict free and friendly. I'd like it even more if it didn't cross the line and go Dolores Umbridge sickly sweet we-know-what's-best-for-you.

[Aliax]

Foreword: I'm in no way saying that everyone should feel or act like me. I'm only explaining where I'm coming from and why I think and act the way I do, nothing more.

Just remember that overwhelming an unfamiliar commenter may be unintentionally creating an environment which forces them to be defensive, makes them lash out, and produces rude 'troll like' behaviour from someone who feels under attack.

(emphasis mine)

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. In my opinion and experience, nothing anyone says can force anyone else to act like a troll. I've seen this being proven untrue again and again. We can't choose how we feel, but we can choose how we act. We can feel horribly hurt and angry and attacked, but that does not mean that we have no other choice but to react in an abusive and insulting manner, as this guy did. You even say so yourself at the end of your post. I quote:

One of the many wonderful things about the internet is that you can take time to think before replying, a luxury that would be very appreciated in real life. Use this time to think about what you're saying, who it can hurt and what it can do.

This applies to that troll just as much as to us.

Equally, we have gained good community members when we've treated these disagreeing commenters decently.

We DID treat this guy decently. Nothing we said "deserved" the kind of troll behaviour he dished back.

Be the change you wish to see.

Which is precisely why I won't let anyone argue that their opinion is fact when it isn't, or that something is crap just because they don't like it, when they do this on a topic I care about. I spent the first 37 years of my life being brainwashed into blindly accepting my abuser's opinions as facts even when they clearly weren't, and 30 of those 37 years being indoctrinated into accepting that whatever my church didn't like was evil even when I couldn't see anything wrong with it. I will no longer sit on my hands when I see someone acting in such an outrageous way again on a topic I care about.

It may be hard to do when you feel hurt not to reply in spite, but please hold back, both on the comments and on here.

I can't do that. I will NOT hold back around people who outright attack me or the principles I hold dear. I literally spent my life holding back, and I will no longer do it (if only because it's incredibly toxic to both my physical and mental healths.)

And let me repeat what I said at the beginning of my post: I'm in no way saying that everyone should feel or act like me. I'm only explaining where I'm coming from and why I think and act the way I do, nothing more.

[Haiz]

@ everyone still reacting over that one "troll":

he's not worth your time, there will be more of them, you're not getting paid to defend minna and her work in every situation, and. Aliax - it's not about just you personally. yesterday I scrolled down to see the comments, and there were SO MANY replies. it's not just you, it's the horde of people retaliating on one person being rude and maybe even upset. prof_marvel, it's not buddhist to hold grudges. People say dumb things, I said dumb things once, and someone declared their hate for me in the comfort corner as a result of that. It was bad.

[JoB]

Really the more important thing to be aware of is that there is someone impersonating JoB in the comments and we need to be aware that we might not be talking to JoB when we see the name in the section.

Well, not necessarily only me ... I noticed the extra JoBs because I'm not a registered Disqus user and have to actually Ctrl-F through the SSSS page to notice people replying to me.

I'd also like to know why we are discussing someone essentially behind their back? *raises eyebrows*

You're referring to Mr. "pacing issue" here, I take it? Well, he did effectively announce he'ld keep his back turned to our fanboyishly dissecting his opinion, so I don't quite see why we should be obliged to keep cluttering Disqus' daily chunk instead of having it all neatly sorted into this thread on the forum instead. A thread in the part of the boards readable to anon visitors, mind. As far as I'm concerned, feel free to throw a link his way on Disqus.

[Aliax]

@ everyone still reacting over that one "troll":

Can I take this opportunity to ask why people do what you did here? Whether it's saying, "Let it go", or "People need to stop discussing this topic" or anything of the sort? I honestly don't get it  ??? To me, it seems obvious that if people are still discussing something, it's because they are still interested in the topic, so it seems very rude to me to tell them to stop talking about it. Similarly, if someone is still upset or emotional in any way over something, it seems like a complete lack of compassion to me to tell them to "just let it go". I honestly don't understand this, BUT I also refuse to conclude that people must simply be that rude or that lacking in compassion, so clearly I'm missing something here. Could you help me understand, please?

he's not worth your time, there will be more of them, you're not getting paid to defend minna and her work in every situation

All of this is true, but why does it mean that we can't individually choose to do any (or all) of this anyway if we feel so inclined?

Aliax - it's not about just you personally.

I'm perfectly aware of that  ??? ?

[Curry]

I think it's more that it's unnerving to see this reaction to negative views of Minna's work and a bit of rudeness. Yes, it is GREAT that this community is so unified in their love of the comic, but honestly I'm a bit driven away by the threats to find your personal information and offline, private life and use them against you, especially because I've had the exact same feelings that this person has expressed.

Can I take this opportunity to ask why people do what you did here? Whether it's saying, "Let it go", or "People need to stop discussing this topic" or anything of the sort? I honestly don't get it  ??? To me, it seems obvious that if people are still discussing something, it's because they are still interested in the topic, so it seems very rude to me to tell them to stop talking about it. Similarly, if someone is still upset or emotional in any way over something, it seems like a complete lack of compassion to me to tell them to "just let it go". I honestly don't understand this, BUT I also refuse to conclude that people must simply be that rude or that lacking in compassion, so clearly I'm missing something here. Could you help me understand, please?

People do this because there is discord growing and they are trying to nip it in the bud. This thread isn't a comfort corner, it was an announcement, and if you're upset and emotional (which is entirely understandable), that thread might be a better place to express your feelings - a quick reminder that we have already had moderators put their words in on this topic:

Hey guys, this troll issue is really not something we need to worry about. Minna is perfectly capable of handling her comment section, and we are capable of handling the forum.

Really the more important thing to be aware of is that there is someone impersonating JoB in the comments and we need to be aware that we might not be talking to JoB when we see the name in the section.

Otherwise, everything is fine. We've dealt with trolls in the past and Minna has too. She can and will ban people she feels are a problem from her comment section, it's happened in the past. This really isn't an issue worth arguing over. It will happen again one day and probably even more often, and we will just keep going on being the awesome community we are and not let it get to us.

[Aliax]

I think it's more that it's unnerving to see this reaction to negative views of Minna's work

In my case, it had nothing to do with my love for SSSS. I've occasionally taken similar stands about works I don't like (like Twilight or 50 Shades - no offense meant to people who like them, they are just really not my thing): dislike a work all you want, but when it comes to judging it (which this guy was doing), then judge it on its own merits and according to what it pretends to be, not according to what you wish it were.

I've also been on the other side of this problem: complaining about how a manga I used to follow was evolving, because its second chapter (an extended flashback) had led me to believe that it was going to be something vastly different from what its author is actually interested in. Once I realised that I was basing my assumptions on a false premise (that the second chapter was intended to modulate the mood and plot established in the first chapter), it became a simple matter of, "Oh, well in that case, this manga is not my cup of tea and I just need to drop it".

So really, to me, this was never a matter of liking or not liking SSSS. It was only a matter of judging it according to how Minna has always described it, instead of how this guy wanted it to be. You know, simple fairness.

honestly I'm a bit driven away by the threats to find your personal information and offline, private life and use them against you, especially because I've had the exact same feelings that this person has expressed.

While me, on the other hand, I couldn't care less about that. So what if people figure out who I am? I have nothing to hide. I do understand and respect, however, that this is something which is a real bother and even fear to a lot of people on the internet, and I do feel uncomfortable about this on your and their behalf.

People do this because there is discord growing and they are trying to nip it in the bud.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how this is supposed to work How is telling someone to quit talking about a subject they obviously still care about, supposed to reduce discontent? It seems to me that on the contrary, it's far more likely to increase the discord, because now those people feel like they are being silenced on top of being invested. This is how resentment is created, and resentment is never a good thing to promote in a community, in my experience.

This thread isn't a comfort corner, it was an announcement, and if you're upset and emotional (which is entirely understandable), that thread might be a better place to express your feelings

1. I'm not upset. I'm confused. I'm trying to understand things that I know I'm ignorant about.

2. I really don't want to sound mean by saying this, but the idea of getting comfort (let alone asking for it!) from half-strangers on the internet makes me extremely uncomfortable. I don't even like talking about my problems with my colleagues, because I can tell that most of them are just performing interest and compassion and don't actually care, and it's even worse on the internet, where I don't have any body language to read to tell me who might be sincere (if anyone).

[Haiz]

Can I take this opportunity to ask why people do what you did here?

Okay, I will explain. I apoligize if I was being rude or condescending.

I posted what I posted because several posts seemed to have had a very concluding tone, and it seemed like we were ready to move on from the Rude Person. What was done was done, and there's not much we can do about that anymore, and at this stage it is in my humble opinion to leave that whole episode be. But you kept responding to things as if they were directed at you personally. And I feel like it's really bad if I feel the need to tell someone to 1) get a thicker skin, 2) learn to let go, and 3) recognize not everything is about you. Because I am 100% guilty in all of these offences. I'm trying to say that obsessing over what someone (who you don't know or even care about) on the internet said for a longer period of time is NOT. WORTH. IT. and i say it because i've been there. I hold a million grudges and I am a bitter person and I have an inability to shut up, but i've learnt that some times it's best to just let go. I say what I mean - it's not worth it. Save confrontation for times it will help. pick your battles. save your energy. i don't know what more i can say about it.

you had your reasons for reacting as you did, so might the other person have. maybe they had a terrible day and were letting off steam, maybe they compulsively lash out thanks to past experiences! that doesn't have to justify rudeness, but they didn't seem to intentionally cause any damage except for being, well, unpleasant to talk to. it doesn't qualify for a witch hunt or doxxing.

[Curry]

Aaaaalright I really don't know what the purpose of this conversation is or what you're looking for? And I really don't want to continue talking about this, but it's rude to just not reply to people, but. Consider this my last response before I disappear for another week or so lmao

Spoiler: just a lot of text • show

quotes don't work under spoilers so bear with my obnoxious bolding here ahaa

In my case, it had nothing to do with my love for SSSS. I've occasionally taken similar stands about works I don't like (like Twilight or 50 Shades - no offense meant to people who like them, they are just really not my thing): dislike a work all you want, but when it comes to judging it (which this guy was doing), then judge it on its own merits and according to what it pretends to be, not according to what you wish it were.

I've also been on the other side of this problem: complaining about how a manga I used to follow was evolving, because its second chapter (an extended flashback) had led me to believe that it was going to be something vastly different from what its author is actually interested in. Once I realised that I was basing my assumptions on a false premise (that the second chapter was intended to modulate the mood and plot established in the first chapter), it became a simple matter of, "Oh, well in that case, this manga is not my cup of tea and I just need to drop it".

So really, to me, this was never a matter of liking or not liking SSSS. It was only a matter of judging it according to how Minna has always described it, instead of how this guy wanted it to be. You know, simple fairness.

Ok, he's allowed to have that idea. We've been over this over and over again all throughout this thread. I personally don't see his opinion as particularly rude (just his manner). There's nothing more I can say here that hasn't been said already.


I'm sorry, but I don't understand how this is supposed to work How is telling someone to quit talking about a subject they obviously still care about, supposed to reduce discontent? It seems to me that on the contrary, it's far more likely to increase the discord, because now those people feel like they are being silenced on top of being invested. This is how resentment is created, and resentment is never a good thing to promote in a community, in my experience.


There is increased resentment because the conversation is going on and on unnecessarily and a lot of people don't see the reason for the reaction against this person. There's not even consensus if he's a troll or not. We've had very heated discussions before in this community and after leaving them be, things have smoothed over. There's inevitably going to be resentment because nobody is exactly the same and communities aren't homogenous, but harping on a subject will only bring up the discord more because it really doesn't seem like people on this thread are changing their minds on anything


1. I'm not upset. I'm confused. I'm trying to understand things that I know I'm ignorant about.

2. I really don't want to sound mean by saying this, but the idea of getting comfort (let alone asking for it!) from half-strangers on the internet makes me extremely uncomfortable. I don't even like talking about my problems with my colleagues, because I can tell that most of them are just performing interest and compassion and don't actually care, and it's even worse on the internet, where I don't have any body language to read to tell me who might be sincere (if anyone).


1. Sorry, you mentioned people being upset and emotional in the message I quoted, and it seemed that the only person who was very invested in this was you, so I assumed that you had feelings you wanted to talk over.

2. don't worry, there's no pressure to use it, and i kind of feel the same way, but a lot of people on this forum find it very useful so I just thought it might be good to throw that out there

[Aliax]

But you kept responding to things as if they were directed at you personally.

Oh, so this is where the problem was! Well then, I apologise for whatever I did which made you think that I was taking anything personally, because at no point did I think anything was directed at me personally. I mentioned stuff that happened to me, or explained the way I think, sure, but these were only meant as examples in a broader discussion, nothing more. I never thought about any of this as being about me. I only keep replying because I'm interested in the various general topics of the discussion, such as, "What counts as troll behaviour vs. rude behaviour?", "What can reasonably be expected of people when they are confronted to something which upsets them?", and so on.

As a rule, I won't say that I never take things personally without being aware of it, but it's really rare. It pretty much only happens when I get triggered and I don't realise it. You can rather safely assume that, if I don't outright say that I'm taking something personally because it's a topic that's sensitive to me, then there's a 95% likelihood that I'm not taking it personally. In fact, I've been FAR more often accused of discussing topics in a too dispassionate way, than of taking things personally As in, "This is something that matters to a lot of people, you know, it's not just some theoretical discussion!"

***

Aaaaalright I really don't know what the purpose of this conversation is or what you're looking for?

Nothing in particular? As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of a conversation is simply to discuss things: sharing knowledge, exchanging opinions and points of view, and when lucky, expanding understanding. I'm sorry if my way of having conversations upset you I apologise.

[viola]

Just a reminder, if people are unable to keep this discussion amicable we will have to lock the thread.

Also to be clear, any and all threats made by forum members towards other forum members will not be tolerated.

[viola]

Due to rising tensions and the atmosphere of the comments in this thread, I have had several requests from various users to lock this thread, therefore it will be locked while we discuss whether to move it or keep it locked in the future.