Author Topic: Writers' Corner  (Read 53497 times)

Lazy8

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2016, 11:22:48 AM »
I can't just go and put a character that 'feels' lime-green and silver in a world that is mostly black, red and dark grey, with hints of saturated dark blue and green! It's impossible!

But once characters of 'the first generation' die, the colour/energy/feel of a world changes for me, because their weight is missing from weave and matter, my sensibilities start revolting once more.

The only thing I can do with my characters and worlds is to try to slowly morph them by adding or subtracting strands of colour, a smell, a distinct sound or, well, "energies"  :(

Slightly off-topic, but... do you have synesthesia, Asterales? Never seen anyone describe a character or world in terms of color or smell before.
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Keeper

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2016, 11:43:50 AM »
Thats great! *pretends to understand how you did it and is not secretly weirded out at all*
Well, at least the characters changed with their surroundings. I get that part.

What do you think you will be able to get out of the medieval setting opposed to the modern one?

How I did it? I pretty much scrapped everything I had and started over with only the characters and the original surrounding area. It helps that when I had the very first thought of the story, it was very similar to the setting it has now. The modern-day thing came later, but it wasn't working out, storywise. I don't want to have a conflict between tow human parties driving the plot. Rather, I want it to be more humans vs. fate/nature which works better with a more nature-heavy setting. And I read a lot of fantasy books, so a medieval setting is one I feel like I actually understand better, plus I have a bit more flexibility.
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Róisín

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2016, 04:57:20 PM »
Lazy8: noticed that you were asking Asterales about synaesthesia? I don't know whether that is what is happening with her, but there are other reasons as well for using other senses as descriptors. I have a poet friend who is blind, and years ago knew another poet and musician who started to go deaf as a child due to a disease which affected the bones of his inner ears and who became totally deaf by his early twenties. Their work is good verging on brilliant in both cases, but has a slight but disturbing element of alienage when it comes to descriptions.

If you want to see that progression of writing from the perspective of a wonderful poet whose sensorium gradually changed, look for the work of Judith Wright. The descriptors changed over time, especially in her landscape poetry, as she gradually became profoundly deaf. And of course it can be the mental balance that changes, and with it the landscape depicted. You don't have to go past the work of Vincent van Gogh to see that.

If you read my stuff, for that matter, you'll note that the balance of descriptors is a little strange. In my case, I've a very good proprioceptive sense- I can, if you like, always 'feel' myself very accurately in the landscape, and it reflects in my writing. My sense of touch is very good, and I have a 'perfumers' nose' which again is reflected in descriptions of landscape, food, people and the like. On the other hand, because my hearing is no longer brilliant, and my eyesight is fading, being far better at night than in glaring bright light, the things I notice, and therefore describe, are different.

But I completely get Asterale's descriptions, and find them interesting.
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Lazy8

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2016, 05:29:10 PM »
Lazy8: noticed that you were asking Asterales about synaesthesia? I don't know whether that is what is happening with her, but there are other reasons as well for using other senses as descriptors. I have a poet friend who is blind, and years ago knew another poet and musician who started to go deaf as a child due to a disease which affected the bones of his inner ears and who became totally deaf by his early twenties. Their work is good verging on brilliant in both cases, but has a slight but disturbing element of alienage when it comes to descriptions.

If you want to see that progression of writing from the perspective of a wonderful poet whose sensorium gradually changed, look for the work of Judith Wright. The descriptors changed over time, especially in her landscape poetry, as she gradually became profoundly deaf. And of course it can be the mental balance that changes, and with it the landscape depicted. You don't have to go past the work of Vincent van Gogh to see that.

If you read my stuff, for that matter, you'll note that the balance of descriptors is a little strange. In my case, I've a very good proprioceptive sense- I can, if you like, always 'feel' myself very accurately in the landscape, and it reflects in my writing. My sense of touch is very good, and I have a 'perfumers' nose' which again is reflected in descriptions of landscape, food, people and the like. On the other hand, because my hearing is no longer brilliant, and my eyesight is fading, being far better at night than in glaring bright light, the things I notice, and therefore describe, are different.

But I completely get Asterale's descriptions, and find them interesting.

Oh yeah, just asking out of curiosity. Mostly because I find it fascinating the various ways in which people's senses can intermingle, and learning about different ways that people perceive the world.
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Jethan

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2016, 11:06:48 PM »
Spoiler: show
I can't just go and put a character that 'feels' lime-green and silver in a world that is mostly black, red and dark grey, with hints of saturated dark blue and green! It's impossible! [...]

*sigh* After this little discussion I feel like throwing up and my whole body aches...
Not to mention, I feel more deranged than I probably am.

No one else has this problem?

[...]
Yes, as long as they are with characters that were 'born' in that world and the 'web of energy' extends to them, it's possible.
But once characters of 'the first generation' die, the colour/energy/feel of a world changes for me, because their weight is missing from weave and matter, my sensibilities start revolting once more.
There has to be something to anchor these energies to the world, like legends, name giving habits or iconography, for all I care, but...something!
Spoiler: Sorta long, sorta rambly • show

I also see my characters and stories with very distinctive colors and atmospheres, and if I think there's a misfit going on there I can't bring myself to write the story, it would just be off.  I don't get sick from it though (and I hope you'll feel better!), but I wouldn't be able to put pen to paper if I feel the colors and flavors are wrong.  Also, I really like the term energies in addition to colors. 

But I don't think I have a problem with switching settings and characters around.
Probably because I technically only have one setting.
It just happens to be an entire galaxy when it gets down to it.  If you had a sci-fi spaceship you would be possible to travel to all of the storyworlds (I think there's only one or two realms that are purely magical and aren't on a real planet, they're only reachable by portals, and sci-fi travel doesn't start for a long, long time though.)  Plus, certain storyworlds know not to interact with the silly storyworlds because that completely messes up their tone.  The planets do control the tone of the story (and sometimes the art style), but it's pretty obvious what characters belong there and which don't.

So, I guess when I have an entire galaxy with thousands of years of history on my main planet (Thren) and histories on other planets (that aren't as in-depth), there's just room for any sort of character there.  They will find some place to call home.
It's just like, "Well, I got this idea and that idea, I know there's somewhere I can dump this new atmosphere, character or story idea, if not in Thren, then I will stick it on another planet!"  There's just a lot of room and time for everything to have a space that makes sense.

But it becomes hard to keep track of everything, and sometimes I wonder if flavors that are visually similar but not magically or story-historically consistent with each other end up getting mixed up and then I'm not sure which world they belong on.  It's like, "Does this have to be on another medieval fantasy planet, or could it go on Thren?"  How many planets can I have?  What's sensible?  I'm probably going to turn a little too rambly if I try answering those questions, or ask more.

I think my main problem is being concerned with getting Thren's worldbuilding and history to be very consistent and thorough.


I also wanted to reply to your comment on the OC Showcase...
Quote
Spoiler: show
Because, every world that pops up in front of my eyes has an "energy" so unique, it cannot be transplanted and the only way to reuse some of it is slowly warping it until it essentially is a different world - to me, at least.
And that means I never get to write about the original, which makes me sad.

By the way, how are you dealing with the great detail of your world, when writing? For me, not describing the environment is unthinkable, not describing the mood in a room, the color of a piece of wood, the slat of a ray of light, feels like ripping out the heart of my characters, or forgetting to give them two arms.
That means my prose tends to be rather heavy on description, but it essentially reflects the characters personality/mood, so I never know what to tell people, who don't pick up on it.
Spoiler: Atmosphere and Description • show
I'm also very sad if I have to scrap an original idea for a story, because it seems impossible to recapture that original atmosphere, it kinda loses its freshness and you just know it's become something else now.  I have a particular story that really bothers me this way, Sheyla's story, I've only mentioned her a little bit in the OC prompts, for the most part.  I'm just not sure if it's possible to keep the original atmosphere.  Unless I do two versions of her story, one a comic and one a novel.  I don't have as strong a problem with this with any of my other stories.  It's kinda funny.

But as for how I deal with description...I usually plan on making my stories webcomics so I can express exactly and precisely what everything looks like and what the mood is.  But my drawing ability isn't good enough for most of my stories, yet.  I have a really hard time writing because I feel like it's impossible to get exactly what's in my head onto paper in such a way that a reader would see exactly what I would see.  I just have really strong visuals with my stories (definitely in the form of mind movies!).  I want to get back into writing, but nothing quite clicks with being just words that will create images in everybody's mind that are completely different.
When I do write I either go heavy into description in order to convey precise imagery, or I manage to forget to add any description (whether of actions or surroundings) because I'm focused on dialogue and it sweeps me away with it.

Ha, I keep thinking, "I want to write! I really should have a book because that would be spiffy!  Why don't I just write a story?!" And then I felt a little bit of my stomach going "Eghh, no thanks," xP.  So, maybe writing a novel is simply off for me right now.  (I guess it's that same sort of sensitivity you described with not wanting to change settings for characters and such, if the form of the story isn't right in some way, your gut will tell you so!)
I just don't know what to do about my stories right now....

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Asterales

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 03:11:38 AM »
[...] I want it to be more humans vs. fate/nature which works better with a more nature-heavy setting. And I read a lot of fantasy books, so a medieval setting is one I feel like I actually understand better, plus I have a bit more flexibility.
That is probably true. I hope the setting works out for you the way you imagine!

Spoiler: Sorta long, sorta rambly • show

I also see my characters and stories with very distinctive colors and atmospheres, and if I think there's a misfit going on there I can't bring myself to write the story, it would just be off.  I don't get sick from it though (and I hope you'll feel better!), but I wouldn't be able to put pen to paper if I feel the colors and flavors are wrong.  Also, I really like the term energies in addition to colors. 

[…]

[…]

But it becomes hard to keep track of everything, and sometimes I wonder if flavors that are visually similar but not magically or story-historically consistent with each other end up getting mixed up and then I'm not sure which world they belong on.  It's like, "Does this have to be on another medieval fantasy planet, or could it go on Thren?"  How many planets can I have?  What's sensible?  I'm probably going to turn a little too rambly if I try answering those questions, or ask more.

I think my main problem is being concerned with getting Thren's worldbuilding and history to be very consistent and thorough.
Flavor is a very good word, too. I think words kind of have a "flavor" and a texture according to tongue movement and sound.
And I get, what you are saying about becoming confused when trying to figure out if an element fits a story or not or a story can have that setting. Could imagine being able to move characters around in an universe, but my setting(s) have never grown beyond a continent or two (which aren't even necessary)

I really think concentrating on that planet is a good thing and admirable. Why not fill in as many holes, you could trip over, as possible? What would you be doing if you weren't fussing over it? Would it be something more productive? As long as you don't feel you are holding yourself down with it, what's the harm?

Spoiler: show
I'm just not sure if it's possible to keep the original atmosphere.  Unless I do two versions of her story, one a comic and one a novel.  I don't have as strong a problem with this with any of my other stories.  It's kinda funny.

[…]

[…]
I understand the kind of difference the medium could make. I would find it hard to write the exact same story in German and in English.
A comic and a novel version would surely be interesting, but I can imagine them being very confusing at the same time.
Hopefully you'll be able to find a solution!

To avoid disappointment though, I don't think it is ever possible to produce a story, that isn't interpreted differently from what the author intended. Just look at the different readings of a single panel in SSSS - sometimes it has huge repercussions.
Not to discourage you, but maybe you should mentally prepare yourself to succeed only mostly, instead of completely.

Slightly off-topic, but... do you have synesthesia, Asterales? Never seen anyone describe a character or world in terms of color or smell before.
[…]


No, I don't think I do. There might be strong connections between the different senses for me, but I don't think that qualifies as Synesthesia.
Spoiler: show

But if I ever convinced myself to have me tested for it, I'd more than likely end up on the Autistic Spectrum. Somewhere as a mild form of Aspergers or something. 'Mild' because I seem to be the highly-functional type and because I am less affected by it, the older I get. There are mechanisms you can learn to deal with almost everything, after all.

Using colour, smell, sound and so on to describe characters simply feels more whole to me than using adjectives. I do that, too, so I can be sure to have a precise definition when I need it, but a personality, is, to me, more like a kind of mist in certain colours, that changes form and fills crevices, the way it is expressed constantly changes and adjectives are just too limiting to do it full justice.
It's simply easier for me to think about, say, Karsofin, as someone who is the sound of a not fully dried plank of cedar breaking, has a muted sand-gold-brown colour that is very saturated and a somewhat corduroy feel to her. The solidity, muted saturation and the deep reverberation of the echo underlying the high notes of breaking wood are, what makes her fit in the universe. The other character I mentioned above, the lime-green silver one, is not muted or saturated enough. In Karsofin's and Ferusch's world he would seem like the faded imprint of someone, a memory or ghost. In his own universe, he seems full and strong.
I suppose not using actual words, but a compilation of different sensory impressions to define and recognize a character by, is rather like keeping them as a malleable, flexible thought. You don't think in words all the time, right? You feel emotions, and when you see or touch something, it moves something inside you.
Only when you want to communicate these feelings to someone else do you try to frame them in words, but there is only so much you can express.
So which one is more accurate, the precise word or the vague, multilayered feeling?


Róisín: What you say is very interesting! When I read it, I had a strong recollection of reading a book in which descriptions of taste constantly popped up and confused me to no end. It were good descriptions and not over the top, but they still felt foreign to me and I thought about them a lot at the time.
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Mélusine

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2016, 08:24:39 AM »
Question : am I the only one always wondering if I write properly the characters who are the opposite gender ? (*Fears not to be clear enough* Mens, for me, because I'm a girl ?)
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Aierdome

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2016, 09:30:21 AM »
Question : am I the only one always wondering if I write properly the characters who are the opposite gender ? (*Fears not to be clear enough* Mens, for me, because I'm a girl ?)

I admit that I don't have this problem most of the time, but then again, my stories suffer from having very little female characters, so perhaps there's something I'm not aware of. Also, the problem raises its ugly head when I have to write romantic scenes. When I try to write them from female perspective, they always just... fail to work properly. No matter what I write, it just never feels like something a real woman would do, and I have to escape into male POV to make it work. Which is... weird, to say the least, seeing how I'm a woman myself.  ???

I'd say if you worry about this, just give it to some guy to read and ask him if it feels right.
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Yuuago

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2016, 09:54:22 AM »
Question : am I the only one always wondering if I write properly the characters who are the opposite gender ? (*Fears not to be clear enough* Mens, for me, because I'm a girl ?)

Hmm... I've run into this problem when writing in historical settings, but in those case I think it's due to having yet another level of research that I need to take into account (societal expectations of the period/class vs individual approach to situations, etc).

But with modern/fantasy/non-historical settings, I haven't found it a problem. I take the same approach to writing women as I do to writing men, and it all comes out fine. Since people are individuals, it isn't really like there is a "proper" way to write anybody, really.
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Mélusine

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2016, 10:04:28 AM »
Also, the problem raises its ugly head when I have to write romantic scenes.
*Shivers* My nightmare... okay, less than battles/confrontations, but I always feel so clumsy !

I'd say if you worry about this, just give it to some guy to read and ask him if it feels right.
Of course :) But I haven't a lot of guys in my potential beta-readers... Until now the only one hadn't saw too much problems... I hope...

But with modern/fantasy/non-historical settings, I haven't found it a problem. I take the same approach to writing women as I do to writing men, and it all comes out fine. Since people are individuals, it isn't really like there is a "proper" way to write anybody, really.
Maybe I'm thinking too much :) I tend to write better, or to have the impression to be able to write better when I have an experience to relate with what I'm writing, because I can use memories, sensations... to describe something more "real".
And it's just that, sometimes, when you've spend so many hours writing, you're not anymore able to see the little details which might be small problems, attitudes which sounds a little wrong, reaction a bit weird, ... For example, a friend I was beta-reading had a male character, a big brother, strong, worrying for brother and sister, and putting his hands on his hips while asking them where they were. Which is an attitude I never saw on any men. I'm not saying men aren't allowed to do it, but with the character's temperament, it sounds wrong, folding his arms was a more coherent attitude. I'm still not sure I'm clear.
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Yuuago

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2016, 10:11:59 AM »
For example, a friend I was beta-reading had a male character, a big brother, strong, worrying for brother and sister, and putting his hands on his hips while asking them where they were. Which is an attitude I never saw on any men. I'm not saying men aren't allowed to do it, but with the character's temperament, it sounds wrong, folding his arms was a more coherent attitude. I'm still not sure I'm clear.

OHH okay, now I understand better what you mean. Yeah, that kind of thing... Well, even in such a case, I'd say it still comes down to individual behaviour, and making sure that one is consistent with the type of person they're writing. Not necessarily on a, like, male/female level, but just what they act like as a person. :Va Probably.
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Mélusine

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2016, 10:14:20 AM »
Okay. First conclusion : I'm worrying too much ^^
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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2016, 10:17:49 AM »
Okay. First conclusion : I'm worrying too much ^^

Worrying too much is definitely a thing, yes, and might be the case here. ;p One tends to be one's own harshest critic.
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Asterales

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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2016, 10:21:12 AM »
Mélusine You can always try to watch the behavior/mannerisms of men when they are in a same-sex group as opposed to when it's a mixed-sex one or they are with someone from the opposite sex they like.
As for emotions, I don't think they can be all that different.

Some of the gestures one gender uses and the other doesn't, might also be learned, so if you have a fantasy world you could arguably invent your own gestures. It might be more difficult to make the reader relate, though.

And I totally agree with Yuuago that it is the individual characteristics that are ultimately pivotal, not the gender or sex.
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Re: Writers' Corner
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2016, 10:26:02 AM »
One tends to be one's own harshest critic.
*Conscientiously looks in an other direction as if she wasn't concerned*

And I totally agree with Yuuago that it is the individual characteristics that are ultimately pivotal, not the gender or sex.
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