Writers' Corner

[OwlsG0]

Thank you !! See, I think for any fantasy setting there should always be rules in place for the magic, or at least some sort of limitations unless they're as you said a bunch of immortals or something but even then I feel like there's gotta be limits. I suppose I was talking more along the lines of would it still have the same laws, rules, and physics our world has without really any magic, normal just thousands of years in the future, or if I want to blend in aspect of something mystic and not scientifically accurate ya know ? But as I said the mystic and not scientifically accurate is just so much more fun.

Yeah I get what you mean! And magic does totally have to have limits on it, or it just turns into a shonen manga where every new mission has people mastering moves in a week to destroy ultra powerful enemies for no reason other than FRIENDSHIP POWER and stuff. Don't hold much with that kind of stuff.

One series which I think did the limitations of magic really well was the Inheritance cycle. Now I've got plenty of complaints about the series in and of itself, but the way they put energy and strength down as being the limiter on what a magician could do was uncompromising; you played by the rules, or you died. And because of that the pre-teen OwlsG0 that read the series really felt the sense of achievement every time Eragon mastered a new spell.

[Juniper]

Ohhhhh yes yes I agree, inheritance series is a good example of a good magic system despite its other flaws. I still have yet to read the last book and even though it'll probably make me feel like a 12 year old I still plan on it eventually.

[OwlsG0]

Ohhhhh yes yes I agree, inheritance series is a good example of a good magic system despite its other flaws. I still have yet to read the last book and even though it'll probably make me feel like a 12 year old I still plan on it eventually.

I happened to finish the series in Paris and had a lot of French questions directed to me, as to why I was sobbing over a closed book. I can assure you the last book will make you feel like a kid and if you were like me, re-live an obsessive crush on Murtagh.

[Juniper]

I happened to finish the series in Paris and had a lot of French questions directed to me, as to why I was sobbing over a closed book. I can assure you the last book will make you feel like a kid and if you were like me, re-live an obsessive crush on Murtagh.

Aw heck yes I had a weird little crush on Murtagh too and I am SO ready to relive that

[Aierdome]

*Sees words "good magic system" flashing in text*
Can I tell you about our lord and saviour Brandon Sanderson?   Seriously, though, if you want to see a well-limited magic system that's really powerful and full of potential at the same time, he's the go-to writer for that, and did a series of articles for writing that kind of stuff (Google "Sanderson's three laws of magic").

If I may, Juniper reading through your notes on worldbuilding...

Ohhh do I want to go far enough into the future where noticeable evolutionary changes have happened with some of the flora and fauna ?? That might be kind of fun but I don't know if I know enough about biology to do that . .

If you're going with magic, you could go the route of "magic energy radiation" or somesuch causing mutations in some animals and plants, like growing horns on horses or causing a flytrap to have a growth spurt and develop a taste for human flesh. If it's consistent internally, you don't have to worry much about biology.

I wouldn't worry about comparisons with SSSS or Adventure Time - The Magic Comes Back is a common enough motif to have its own TVTropes page.

Because the first character, the idea of them being the last of something that was genocide'd off sounds almost mary-sue-ish to me I might combine that character with the trickster imp-ish one and make them one in the same. I feel like it might be harder to classify a character as a mary sue when they're a mischievous insufferable little pain   

I admit I wouldn't say that the character being the last of his kind would instantly throw the character into Mary Sue territory, not even close. At contrary, I believe most Mary Sues are decribed as being insufferable pains, though the idea of the character being trickster imp who's last of his kind sounds pretty interesting. Also, I like those plot ideas you're throwing about. Sounds like bare bones of some interesting story (the trickster imp embarking on a journey with wax/wayne OCs while the genocidal person and deep research person pursue them? At any rate, interesting).

Aw heck yes I had a weird little crush on Murtagh too and I am SO ready to relive that

Add me to the list of People Who Had A Crush On Murtagh, he was so awesome. I admit I quit the series before the final book rolled around, but I always found him to be the best thing about Inheritance Cycle 

[Juniper]

I admit I wouldn't say that the character being the last of his kind would instantly throw the character into Mary Sue territory, not even close. At contrary, I believe most Mary Sues are decribed as being insufferable pains, though the idea of the character being trickster imp who's last of his kind sounds pretty interesting. Also, I like those plot ideas you're throwing about. Sounds like bare bones of some interesting story (the trickster imp embarking on a journey with wax/wayne OCs while the genocidal person and deep research person pursue them? At any rate, interesting).

Ah really ? See when I think of a Mary Sue I think of someone who's perfect and lovable by everyone else in universe, there's a huge emphasis on how lovable they are by everyone around them except anyone who's jealous or threatened by them, for example the very infamous Mary Sue Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way. So I figure a way to avoid making someone a Mary Sue is to make them more flawed and believable, although yeah, you're right some flaws really can contribute to a character's Mary Sue-ishness so it's important to pick and choose what flaws or drawbacks you give them and how you present them.

But ahhh yeah the plan is to make the twins allied with 'last of their kind trickster impish' which is also why I want to make the twins pretty lawful good and upright to kind of act as a foil to trickster imp.

Thanks for all of the tips and info, that's all really helpful ! I've heard of Brandon Sanderson before but now my interest is piqued a bit more.

[Lazy8]

Ah really ? See when I think of a Mary Sue I think of someone who's perfect and lovable by everyone else in universe, there's a huge emphasis on how lovable they are by everyone around them except anyone who's jealous or threatened by them, for example the very infamous Mary Sue Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way. So I figure a way to avoid making someone a Mary Sue is to make them more flawed and believable, although yeah, you're right some flaws really can contribute to a character's Mary Sue-ishness so it's important to pick and choose what flaws or drawbacks you give them and how you present them.

But ahhh yeah the plan is to make the twins allied with 'last of their kind trickster impish' which is also why I want to make the twins pretty lawful good and upright to kind of act as a foil to trickster imp.

Thanks for all of the tips and info, that's all really helpful ! I've heard of Brandon Sanderson before but now my interest is piqued a bit more.

Yes yes yes. *nods* I have lots and lots of Things to Say on the subject of Mary Sues, having kept more than a few of them myself back during my early writing days.

First of all, I've seen some deeply flawed characters *cough* Goku *cough* who were still Mary Sues - not because they were perfect, but because of the way they were treated by the narrative, getting let off the hook for some of their worst and most despicable character flaws in ways that none of the other characters were, and almost always being chosen to solve the cast's problems even when another character might have been better suited to the task.

There's also an unfortunate trend toward crying "Mary Sue!" at any canon female character who shows the slightest hint of competence, while not subjecting male characters to standards that are anywhere near as rigorous. Just as an example, here's a list of canon characters I can think of off the top of my head that would be scored at Mary Sues by the standards of most litmus tests:

• Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z): Most powerful person on the planet in the universe in the multiverse including the afterlife, one of the last surviving members of his kind, always saves the day, every single one of his enemies or rivals ends up either liking him or dead, character flaws swept under the rug
• Luke Skywalker (Star Wars): Unusually powerful by the standards of his own universe, has a connection to the villain that makes said villain obsessed with him, defeats said villain with minimal training
• Aang (Avatar: the Last Airbender): The Chosen One, last surviving member of his people, masters a skillset in a matter of months that took most of his predecessors over a decade

...and again, those are only a few I can think of offhand. With the exception of Goku, I didn't take major issue with any of these characters. Just thinking out loud at this point, but I think the difference between a real Mary Sue and a false positive on the litmus test is how their flaws are treated in-universe, and whether they're allowed to develop.

[Juniper]

Yes yes yes. *nods* I have lots and lots of Things to Say on the subject of Mary Sues, having kept more than a few of them myself back during my early writing days.

First of all, I've seen some deeply flawed characters *cough* Goku *cough* who were still Mary Sues - not because they were perfect, but because of the way they were treated by the narrative, getting let off the hook for some of their worst and most despicable character flaws in ways that none of the other characters were, and almost always being chosen to solve the cast's problems even when another character might have been better suited to the task.

There's also an unfortunate trend toward crying "Mary Sue!" at any canon female character who shows the slightest hint of competence, while not subjecting male characters to standards that are anywhere near as rigorous. Just as an example, here's a list of canon characters I can think of off the top of my head that would be scored at Mary Sues by the standards of most litmus tests:

• Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z): Most powerful person on the planet in the universe in the multiverse including the afterlife, one of the last surviving members of his kind, always saves the day, every single one of his enemies or rivals ends up either liking him or dead, character flaws swept under the rug
• Luke Skywalker (Star Wars): Unusually powerful by the standards of his own universe, has a connection to the villain that makes said villain obsessed with him, defeats said villain with minimal training
• Aang (Avatar: the Last Airbender): The Chosen One, last surviving member of his people, masters a skillset in a matter of months that took most of his predecessors over a decade

...and again, those are only a few I can think of offhand. With the exception of Goku, I didn't take major issue with any of these characters. Just thinking out loud at this point, but I think the difference between a real Mary Sue and a false positive on the litmus test is how their flaws are treated in-universe, and whether they're allowed to develop.

Yes thank you, I agree 1000,000% that fans are unfortunately more likely to cry 'Mary Sue !' at competent and likable female characters while kind of just shrugging of male characters who perfectly fit the mold. Luke Skywalker is actually a perfect example, especially going on the fact that many people would define a Mary Sue as a self insert character who is some sort of wish fulfillment on the behalf of the author / creator. Mark Hamill has even said that he's positive Luke Skywalker was supposed to be a self insert for George Lucas  it always did bug me with both Luke Skywalker and Aang how quickly they progressed through their training and as adolescents were able to take down much older and more competent villains who'd been training for decades and decades, even though I especially liked Aang a lot as a character.

And I also think that's a good way to put it, yeah, not just how the flaws are handled in universe but allowing character growth and development through those flaws is super important in making more believable and real characters.

[Lazy8]

And I also think that's a good way to put it, yeah, not just how the flaws are handled in universe but allowing character growth and development through those flaws is super important in making more believable and real characters.

...I will refrain from subjecting you to any of my Goku Rants.

Yes thank you, I agree 1000,000% that fans are unfortunately more likely to cry 'Mary Sue !' at competent and likable female characters while kind of just shrugging of male characters who perfectly fit the mold. Luke Skywalker is actually a perfect example, especially going on the fact that many people would define a Mary Sue as a self insert character who is some sort of wish fulfillment on the behalf of the author / creator. Mark Hamill has even said that he's positive Luke Skywalker was supposed to be a self insert for George Lucas  it always did bug me with both Luke Skywalker and Aang how quickly they progressed through their training and as adolescents were able to take down much older and more competent villains who'd been training for decades and decades, even though I especially liked Aang a lot as a character.

I also tend to look a lot at Zuko as a character who, in the wrong hands, would have had a very high chance of becoming a Sue (good-looking sympathetic villain, Freudian excuse, childhood abuse / absent parents, born royal, right down to a distinct physical flaw that doesn't actually detract from his appearance), but instead, his character flaws are acknowledged in-universe, they're not all intended to be endearing, they cause him real problems, and a big part of his character arc is confronting and overcoming those flaws.

So returning to the original point, as long as you're not giving your character in your original work undue favoritism, I think you should be good.

[princeofdoom]

i hadn't really had any ideas for worlds or stories in a long time and now all of a sudden i have two. but i know that i'm too scatter brained to work on both. They're both fantasy, but one is modern and one is not (pseudo-medieval?)

One is set in a universe with alchemy. The main character is someone with a chronic illness (but is explained in universe as "lacking blood"), who tries to treat it or one day cure it through magic, while also working for his childhood friend/patron/platonic soulmate as an assassin.

The other is a slice of life story about a group of magical girls who defeated the great evil, lived normal lives and are now in their early 60's with careers, families and the like .... when a new evil shows up.

i got more initial interest from friends about the magical girl story, and i think i might be able to do it as a short story or novella, but i've only started figuring out the characters and have no further plot than what's presented. The other story would be a lot bigger, but i have some ideas for subplots, and at least the main character and his friend are based on fan characters i've had for a long time so I could figure out more stuff on the fly.

i should just get writing; i know that inspiration often comes when you least expect it and it's usually that first few words that are the hardest. so just WRITING might get things flowing. but i'm also worried my own health problems will catch up to me write when i get into either one and lose all concept of what i was doing.

[Dar]

I HAVE FOUND MY PEOPLE. HELLO DEAR MANDRAKES.

I am in agreement with IKEA that My Immortal is a trollfic. How can it not be?? I know plenty of people who write bad stuff, but that one is so much of a colossal trainwreck that it just cannot have been created by accident!

What isn't a bad fic though, is anything by eleventy7 on AO3. I won't link them because I almost exclusively read M/M or F/F pairings (Drarry, Wolfstar and Linny are my favourites) and some people might not be comfortable with them, but here's one that doesn't have a romantic plotline and is just gorgeous to read.

It's Astra Inclinant and involves Next-Gen characters as well. It's just beautiful and I teared up more than once reading it.

[Rhynerd]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've recently finished three courses for a Creative Writing Major I'm now taking.

During the course I developed a small idea involving graveyard workers during an alternate version of England's Cholera outbreaks, assigned to keep their eyes and ears out for if any safety coffins started ringing.

I also have two other ideas:
The first is more recent. It's set in a universe starting to become cyberpunk and entails the police force as their city becomes home to a vigilante who relies on technology stolen from one of the corporations to assist in his brutal fight against crime.

The other I've had for quite some time, it's changed alongside myself a bit but allow me to just try and provide a hook for it before I consider going to any full detail: A multi-genre, semi-metafictional adventure involving the exploits and interactions of three story-hopping factions.

[LooNEY_DAC]

So, recently I posted four stories chapter by chapter on the Scriptorium. Would anyone care to dissect them?

I mean that. I would be most grateful if any and all went through the stuff and sent me feedback by whatever means are at your disposal.

EDIT: See below for list of links.

2nd EDIT: As I said up top, you can respond by any means that are at your disposal, including but not limited to:
A post here (spoilered or unspoilered)
A comment on dA
A post on the Scriptorium
A Forum PM
A reply to the comment(s) on the SSSS page
A link on any of the above to a google doc

[OwlsG0]

So, recently I posted four stories chapter by chapter on the Scriptorium. Would anyone care to dissect them?

I mean that. I would be most grateful if any and all went through the stuff and sent me feedback by whatever means are at your disposal.

Which ones were those? I've just emerged from a three-day cold so I have no idea what's going on, but I'd be happy to look over them.

[LooNEY_DAC]

Monstrously long link set (so spoilered):

Spoiler: deviantart links • show

S1: The Advent of the Sword
Between Then and Now
Mission Commission & Briefing
I Think I’d Better Think It Out Again
Striking at the Scowrers
One Step Forward, Two Steps Back
Defending the Inn Crowd
Mission Complete (I Hope)
Post-Mission Debriefing

S2: Realms Above
I’m Always on Tap
Giants Ahoy!
Another Branch or Two
A Summer Trap Springs at Winter’s Fall
It Can’t Get Worse!
It Got Worse
Wrapping Up, Going Down
Back to Mission Control

S3: The Ship/Shape/Span of the World, by a Spick
Mission Briefing
Storm and Board
The Tower at the End of the World
Here Be Dragons
The Boiling Seas
Gold Fever
The Voyage Continues
My Return

S4: The Undesired Princess & (You Guessed It!) the Enchanted Bunny
An Inventor’s Tale Retold
In Which I Am Indeed the Bunny
The Path I’d Trod Before
The Trial of Compassion
The Trial of Honesty
The Trial of Faith
A Witch Arises
Victory, Defeat & an Unavoidable Tragedy