Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[Dilandu]

Probably not much personality or humanity left. Whatever they had as probably decayed into pretty basic emotions, reflected in their own formlessness.

Still, the Sleipnope is clearly capable of rational thinking. It may have a problem with motivations, but it is clearly capable to analyse situation, make logical conclusions, formulate tactics and even mantain more-or-less sensible communications with humans.

[Vafhudr]

I think the Sleipnope is a separate phenomenon from the smaller ghosts. I think it's either the ghost of a beast or a giant, or some sort of ghostly mutation.

The only comparable thing we have seen so far is the psychic attack that precedes a giant's attack, such as Lalli's scene on the train. It's something like that, except without a body.

Or at least, that's what I believe.

It's unclear.

[Dilandu]

I think the Sleipnope is a separate phenomenon from the smaller ghosts. I think it's either the ghost of a beast or a giant, or some sort of ghostly mutation.

The only comparable thing we have seen so far is the psychic attack that precedes a giant's attack, such as Lalli's scene on the train. It's something like that, except without a body.

Or at least, that's what I believe.

It's unclear.

My point is, Sleipnope is the only beast/troll/ghost so far, clearly capable of rational thinking. It is not mindlessly reacting, and not even just being cunning. It is evaluating the situation and making conclusions. And - able to communicate, more or less rationally.

I agree, that the psychic attack in the train have similarities, but this attack wasn't... rational action. The Sleipnope is rational, albeit in its own frame of referrence. Which is actually strange, because it is clearly a geshtalt of large number of entites - and impressed on horse brain. Frankly, the horses aren't the smartest of animals around, so the supernatural components of Sleipnope must actually be working pretty hard in unison to just compensate for the lack of neurons...

[Róisín]

Vafhudr: that's an interesting line of thought. But I wouldn't expect Sigrun to emote loudly or obviously, both for the reasons you state concerning how not only individuals but whole villages can disappear without warning, and death would be a constant part of their lives, but because their folk seem to have gone back culturally to their Nordic Pagan roots. Enough of the sagas and folktales from that culture would have been around in Year 0, perhaps especially in the Norwegian country areas, that the culture would have been pretty easy to reconstruct. It is possible, I think, to deduce the psychic edifice of a people quite thoroughly from their folktales, and that culture, while it accepted and understood strong emotion, did not encourage histrionics.

'Cattle die, kin die,
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'

That quote is from the Hávamál, as I'm sure you recognise. For those who don't, it's a collection of precepts and life advice from the earlier Nordic culture. The sagas suggest that they regarded stoicism in the face of adversity as a virtue, and tended to deal with death and loss by stubborn endurance and grim humour.

Whereas my own Celtic culture, from which comes the Táin, was much more given to open expression of emotion, often in formally ornate language because wordskill was at least as highly regarded as swordskill, and the compleat champion was expected to be able to win a battle and then compose a poem about it, or create extempore a blistering satire upon his enemies, but they still regarded toughness, coping and endurance as virtues.

And anent the 'homosocial' definition: another factor of the Celtic social structure was that women were prominent. Warriors were not invariably men - indeed Cuchullain and Ferdiad meet because they both went to the famous school of war in what is now Scotland, which was run by a trio of female warriors. The invading army in the Táin is actually that of a woman ruler, Medb or Maeve, who is considerably more badass, and far more aggressive than the Ulster king she is invading. She is still a woman: she has ten kids and a husband, but she was dangerous. Even today, people treat her grave with cautious respect. It is still traditional for visitors to bring a small stone to add to her mound, which is quite impressive.

Way back early in the Forum, there were some interesting discussions around these subjects, but I'm afraid I don't remember where. I do remember, though, that one of the participants was Laufey.

[Vafhudr]

Vafhudr: that's an interesting line of thought. But I wouldn't expect Sigrun to emote loudly or obviously, both for the reasons you state concerning how not only individuals but whole villages can disappear without warning, and death would be a constant part of their lives, but because their folk seem to have gone back culturally to their Nordic Pagan roots. Enough of the sagas and folktales from that culture would have been around in Year 0, perhaps especially in the Norwegian country areas, that the culture would have been pretty easy to reconstruct. It is possible, I think, to deduce the psychic edifice of a people quite thoroughly from their folktales, and that culture, while it accepted and understood strong emotion, did not encourage histrionics.

'Cattle die, kin die,
Every man is mortal.
The one thing that is never lost
Is the worth of a life lived well.'

That quote is from the Hávamál, as I'm sure you recognise. For those who don't, it's a collection of precepts and life advice from the earlier Nordic culture. The sagas suggest that they regarded stoicism in the face of adversity as a virtue, and tended to deal with death and loss by stubborn endurance and grim humour.

Whereas my own Celtic culture, from which comes the Táin, was much more given to open expression of emotion, often in formally ornate language because wordskill was at least as highly regarded as swordskill, and the compleat champion was expected to be able to win a battle and then compose a poem about it, or create extempore a blistering satire upon his enemies, but they still regarded toughness, coping and endurance as virtues.

And anent the 'homosocial' definition: another factor of the Celtic social structure was that women were prominent. Warriors were not invariably men - indeed Cuchullain and Ferdiad meet because they both went to the famous school of war in what is now Scotland, which was run by a trio of female warriors. The invading army in the Táin is actually that of a woman ruler, Medb or Maeve, who is considerably more badass, and far more aggressive than the Ulster king she is invading. She is still a woman: she has ten kids and a husband, but she was dangerous. Even today, people treat her grave with cautious respect. It is still traditional for visitors to bring a small stone to add to her mound, which is quite impressive.

Way back early in the Forum, there were some interesting discussions around these subjects, but I'm afraid I don't remember where. I do remember, though, that one of the participants was Laufey.

Haaa... I am always impressed at how you seem to have these quotes at the tip of your fingers.

As for homosociality, I was drawing from my own particular experience of reading the Illiad and ancient Greek culture more generally. I am not nearly as knowledgeable about Celtic culture, though it is my understanding that woman had more presence. I recall a passage, either from Caesar or Tacitus, about how in Gaul woman would often be consulted in matters of war or even participate themselves. What you were mentioning reminded me of all the psychodrama on display in the Illiad. That said, that's more me drawing from a different tradition. You are completely right in pointing out that this mind set is already present in nordic poetry and literature.

Is Laufey even still around?

[Róisín]

I believe Laufey is still somewhere about. She does pop up from time to time. I rather miss her. Many people from the early days don't write so much anymore. Some of us get pretty busy with real life, or discontented with the direction of the comic, or busy with family and other stuff.

I've read the Classical epics, and while they are fine tales, they have more emphasis on what the men and the nobility are doing, and fewer human touches than I find altogether pleasing. Then, I grew up with the Celtic tales, where gender was less important in shaping what people did with their lives. The tales where it does have an effect are often tragedies. I mentioned the tale of Deirdre of the Sorrows, one of the remscéla or prequel tales to the Táin proper. Deirdre is born with fatal beauty, rather like the Classical Helen. The senior druid who is present at her birth wants to kill her straight away, having had a prophetic dream of the chaos, destruction and death that will happen because of her. But he is dissuaded, and the child is sent away to be raised in isolation as a future bride for the king, an act which was extremely uncharacteristic for that culture, and is a root cause of the destruction that follows. The druid names her Deirdre (storm, tempest, upheaval) so people will know she is dangerous.

The inevitable happens. She grows to adolescence having never met anyone but her nurse, her tutor and occasionally the king. She sees her first young man, falls in love and elopes with him and his brothers. They go into exile in what will eventually become Scotland, but are tricked into returning to Ireland where they are of course killed. That is the very bare bones of the story, but it is the reason why decades later, in the middle of the war of the Táin, one of the generals suddenly changes sides. He was Deirdre's uncle, and hasn't forgotten.

Eh, it's Irish folklore, everybody is related to everybody.

[thorny]

My point is, Sleipnope is the only beast/troll/ghost so far, clearly capable of rational thinking.

Isn't Reynir's pastor a sort of ghost?

[Dilandu]

Isn't Reynir's pastor a sort of ghost?

The A? Unclear; she was not shown in physical world yet.

[Yuuago]

Is Laufey even still around?

Around the forum? No. But she's still in the fandom, just in other venues.

I believe Laufey is still somewhere about. She does pop up from time to time. I rather miss her. Many people from the early days don't write so much anymore.

She might be reachable via PM if there's something you want to talk to her about.

[Róisín]

Thanks, Yuuago! Nothing urgent at present, but good to know she is reachable

[Solokov]

The A? Unclear; she was not shown in physical world yet.

Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....

[Antillanka]

Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....

[Dilandu]

Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....

Hardly. Completely different behavior and speech styles. The Sleipnope is obviously some kind of ghosts geshtalt, it have sort of multiple personality fusion (the main voice is constantly supplemented by the additional voices), or at least some sort of collegial decision-making. The A is clearly the single entity, with one distinc personality. And, Onni considered A as "not very strong", while the Sleipnope is obviously capable to gave him run for his money in fair fight. 

Of course, it is still possible that all this is some pretty cunning plan, but frankly, if Sleipnope is able to SUCH kind of planning, no one from expedition would be alive by now.

[Dilandu]

Its a trap!

Possibly, but not very probable. I dare say - highly unlikely, because in that case the whole situation became rather sensless. It is possible, of course, that both Sleipnope and A are parts of some grand strategy, but the question arise - who is the mastermind? The "it", mentioned by Onni?

[JoB]

Had a thought, what if Pastor A is sleipnope....

Sleipnope's the product of a ghost the team rustled at either Kastellet or Amalienborg, thus presumably does not actually have much of a religious background. While I wouldn't put it above Sleip to masquerade as someone and lie 'til the paint comes off the wall, it should be nontrivial to fool Onni (who is expecting such tricks from "spirits", yet pronounced A weak/harmless after a while) and keep Black Speech and the secondary voices hidden. Not to mention the question of "why would it?".