Author Topic: General Discussion Thread  (Read 2387554 times)

Purple Wyrm

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13635 on: January 20, 2016, 03:33:13 AM »
I actually grew up pretty close to where this supposedly took place, and yes, they have a statue of Lalli in the middle of the village ;D

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13637 on: January 20, 2016, 07:02:50 AM »
Well, the Finnish side of the story has that the bishop and his men ransacked Lalli's home while he was away (or that his wife first sold them some extra food from the storage and then for some reason that never gets explained lies to Lalli that the house was ransacked instead), which would have meant death by hunger for the whole family since it was winter.
In reality there's no record that bishop Henry ever came to Finland at all. Sweden was quite good at keeping records of who they sent east so missing an actual bishop's visit is a little bit unbelievable, but since Sweden and Finland both liked the idea of having a saint no one let this fact get in the way of things.
Speaking of facts getting in the way, how would slaying the bishop help the we're-gonna-starve aspect any unless there were plans for a bit of cannibalism? >:D
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Laufey

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13638 on: January 20, 2016, 07:26:47 AM »
Speaking of facts getting in the way, how would slaying the bishop help the we're-gonna-starve aspect any unless there were plans for a bit of cannibalism? >:D

There's actually quite an interesting and complicated system of honour and revenge at play here!

In the Finnish text bishop Henry and his men are referred to as "ruokaruotsi", which meant the type of taxation where a person of higher standing demanded taxes from the people who lived in the area that he considered his property. If there were no other nobles' lands neighboring his he could freely expand them as he wished.

Lalli was the master of Köyliönsaari and by all accounts a powerful and wealthy man who most likely considered the lands around as his own. For bishop Henry to arrive and demand food and hay was akin of him treading heavily on Lalli's toes in matters of land ownership, no matter whether he paid for what he took or didn't (most likely he didn't pay: there's no note that he would have negotiated the price of food and hay with the mistress of the house, the account that he "left some money in the place where he took food" is most likely a later addition meant to show the bishop in better light). It was the bishop coming over and declaring to another land owner that his house and lands were now under his ownership and had to yield whichever tax he decided to demand.

Since Lalli was not at home when this visit was done he couldn't protect his property and thus suffered a massive blow to both food and hay storage, his reputation and position in general - from a head of the area to someone serving a foreign, invading nobleman. The only thing he could do to regain his position, save face and possibly also to discourage future invaders was to hunt down the group and kill them, which is exactly what he did: he gathered up his men and gave chase on skis and killed the bishop and his men.

- According to the legend, that is. Most likely none of this actually happened and it's just a made-up saint legend constructed to back up the Swedish crown's claim over lands in Finland. It's also possible that the person killed on lake Köyliö was not bishop Henry at all but some other Swedish noble, and that the legend was put together from many stories, naturally spinning the whole tale out of shape and size like Medieval people were wont to do anyway.
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Laufey

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13639 on: January 20, 2016, 10:30:33 AM »
And now for something completely different.

There's a key difference between Finns (or rather Helsinkians) and Icelanders: when you tell them bye the first ones just walk out and might not respond at all, whereas the latter ones turn to look at you while they reply. I'm used to the Finnish kind so I just shout bye-bye at people as they're leaving, but that combined with our slow automatic doors means people will accidentally walk into them. I thought I'd learned my lesson during the busy Christmas season but no, I did it again today... -.- One step earlier. I just have to learn to be one step earlier.

On a more positive note someone left/forgot a framer's apron here and it has pockets! No more running around looking for the measuring tape and pens, plus I can also carry the phone around! No, I could not use the pockets of my regular clothes, I have no memory span to speak of and would just forget workplace stuff in my pockets when I go home.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13640 on: January 20, 2016, 10:42:40 AM »

On a more positive note someone left/forgot a framer's apron here and it has pockets! No more running around looking for the measuring tape and pens, plus I can also carry the phone around! No, I could not use the pockets of my regular clothes, I have no memory span to speak of and would just forget workplace stuff in my pockets when I go home.

Hooray for pockets! :D ...I'm glad I'm not the only one with a habit of accidentally bringing work stuff home. /facepalm Goldfish memory, yes!
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13641 on: January 20, 2016, 01:25:38 PM »
Since Lalli was not at home when this visit was done he couldn't protect his property and thus suffered a massive blow to both food and hay storage, his reputation and position in general - from a head of the area to someone serving a foreign, invading nobleman. The only thing he could do to regain his position, save face and possibly also to discourage future invaders was to hunt down the group and kill them, which is exactly what he did: he gathered up his men and gave chase on skis and killed the bishop and his men.
So, in a nutshell, whichever interpretation the bishop might've had of the situation, the Finns saw a declaration of war (well, seizure of power, to be precise) and proceeded to see said war to its end as soon as their commander-in-chief was available for that? Well, there've been wars with more arguable a casus belli in those times, I suppose ...
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urbicande

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13642 on: January 20, 2016, 01:57:21 PM »
So, in a nutshell, whichever interpretation the bishop might've had of the situation, the Finns saw a declaration of war (well, seizure of power, to be precise) and proceeded to see said war to its end as soon as their commander-in-chief was available for that? Well, there've been wars with more arguable a casus belli in those times, I suppose ...

I'm pretty sure that "I want $THING" was a pretty common cause back in the day.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13643 on: January 20, 2016, 03:20:58 PM »
Laufey, seems like you're an accidental troll both in the sonaverse as well as in real life. congrats to you.


aaaaaaand it has barely stopped snowing at ALL for four days straight, I think we have a snowpocalypse upon us. i cant make snow labyrinths or go any shortcuts because the snow will be up to my knees. but despite everything being impractical and slow, it's kinda nice?? it's so quiet and everything is a white blob. it's a good aesthetic


i've also found out that i can retake the exam i didnt pass, this semester! whoop
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13644 on: January 20, 2016, 04:26:27 PM »
I wish I could have snow for four days straight. It's probably not as cool as I imagine, but I think the novelty of the situation would get me through it.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13645 on: January 20, 2016, 04:28:36 PM »
i've also found out that i can retake the exam i didnt pass, this semester! whoop

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13646 on: January 20, 2016, 04:32:32 PM »
I wish I could have snow for four days straight. It's probably not as cool as I imagine, but I think the novelty of the situation would get me through it.
honestly this should not be a novelty to me either seeing as i live in norway and all, but the winters the past few years have been REALLY WEIRD so im surprised at what it's like to have lotsa snow again. i think the worst part is how slow traffic has become and how hard it is to get anywhere, but so far the temperature is keeping steady and everything is allright. it'll be worse when the vicious melting/freezing cycle starts anew.

oh and it makes everything less dark. like yes the sun goes down early but it's not complete pitch dark anymore
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Fen Shen

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13647 on: January 20, 2016, 04:46:26 PM »
Quote
it'll be worse when the vicious melting/freezing cycle starts anew.
Oh yes, we're currently experiencing that... guess my bike will stay at home tomorrow and I'll walk to the station instead.  :-\
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Laufey

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13648 on: January 20, 2016, 05:51:32 PM »


Go home snow, you're drunk.
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Johannabelle

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #13649 on: January 20, 2016, 05:54:35 PM »


Go home snow, you're drunk.
How... is this even possible...
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