Author Topic: General Discussion Thread  (Read 2410067 times)

Pessi

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5775 on: May 28, 2015, 06:58:09 AM »
They've made great noice for many years about how we don't support our own poor people enough and that they would correct this fault if they had the power. Now that they are in the goverment the first thing they do is cut all support to the poor. How is that not forgetting promises?
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Koeshi

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5776 on: May 28, 2015, 07:30:25 AM »
Cutting benefits to fund the creation of more jobs would benefit people in the long run, even if it is at a short-term cost.  Clearly this is something you care about and I neither know nor care enough about Finnish politics to make a really informed opinion here.  However from your previous posts I can see that you dislike people who are not of a left-leaning political persuasion, which forces me to question just how bad they actually are behind your bias.

Laufey

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5777 on: May 28, 2015, 07:52:31 AM »
Cutting benefits to fund the creation of more jobs would benefit people in the long run, even if it is at a short-term cost.  Clearly this is something you care about and I neither know nor care enough about Finnish politics to make a really informed opinion here.  However from your previous posts I can see that you dislike people who are not of a left-leaning political persuasion, which forces me to question just how bad they actually are behind your bias.

Benefits have been steadily cut since the late 90's, this is not just some passing little thing. What's more benefits have always been cut from the poor, elderly, ill, the education and children, and rarely if ever bettered in any way. Students have every reason to feel betrayed, right before the elections they were promised in very exact words that the cuts would not hit education this time by the very same people that now decided to do exactly that - 150 million Euros cut from education on the long run is not a small thing in a country the size of Finland.

In any case I'm also not sure how many jobs this approach has thus far created, but certainly Finland's grown something new - a whole new group of people living well below the poverty level that didn't used to be there before the 90's depression. Besides I think it's a bit impolite of you to suggest Pessi's opinion biased when a) you admit yourself you're not informed about or even care about Finnish politics and b) being left-leaning is a choice, often influenced by the simple fact that the left side parties are pushing things that matter to you. If left wing parties' focus of importance helps Pessi, not criticizing the opposing parties' unfavorable decisions would be illogical. In the same way people who feel Basic Finns stand behind causes they view important back them up. You (generic you) may not like it but that's how democracy works, someone having different priorities than you doesn't make them biased.
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Koeshi

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5778 on: May 28, 2015, 09:17:16 AM »
150 million Euros cut from education on the long run is not a small thing in a country the size of Finland.

That is a very different number to the 600 million that Pessi originally gave.  Which one is it?

Besides I think it's a bit impolite of you to suggest Pessi's opinion biased

It is not impolite, it is fact.  Pessi is biased, you are biased and I am biased, nobody gives a completely even view that isn't flavoured by the personal beliefs.

b) being left-leaning is a choice, often influenced by the simple fact that the left side parties are pushing things that matter to you. If left wing parties' focus of importance helps Pessi, not criticizing the opposing parties' unfavorable decisions would be illogical.

That is of course true.  However, as above, this will have an effect on their personal bias, someone who supported the Basic Finns would most likely tell the story in a rather different manner.

koalalou

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5779 on: May 28, 2015, 09:25:27 AM »
Wow...this is why my mom banned my dad and my sister from talking about politics at the dinner table...


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Laufey

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5780 on: May 28, 2015, 09:26:27 AM »
That is a very different number to the 600 million that Pessi originally gave.  Which one is it?

Both numbers are correct. Pessi is referring to cut in education in general, I - and I apologize for my mistake - spoke of the part that comes directly out of the students' own pockets, in other words the cuts to student allowance. The total sum to all education cuts really is 600 millions, which is quite a sum for a country the size of Finland.

It is not impolite, it is fact.  Pessi is biased, you are biased and I am biased, nobody gives a completely even view that isn't flavoured by the personal beliefs.

We may well all be biased, but pointing at each other and saying "you're biased" is still impolite.

That is of course true.  However, as above, this will have an effect on their personal bias, someone who supported the Basic Finns would most likely tell the story in a rather different manner.

Good to see we're agreeing on this. :)


« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 09:29:24 AM by Laufey »
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Koeshi

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5781 on: May 28, 2015, 09:38:46 AM »
Both numbers are correct. Pessi is referring to cut in education in general, I - and I apologize for my mistake - spoke of the part that comes directly out of the students' own pockets, in other words the cuts to student allowance. The total sum to all education cuts really is 600 millions, which is quite a sum for a country the size of Finland.

I see now, thanks for clarifying on that.

We may well all be biased, but pointing at each other and saying "you're biased" is still impolite.

I don't think I was being that abrasive, merely pointing out that people always tell stories in a way which favours their opinion.  But oh well, maybe I was, my parents always did say that my social graces were lacking.

Wow...this is why my mom banned my dad and my sister from talking about politics at the dinner table...

She sounds like a wise woman.  Generally I try to avoid political debates outside of family and close friends, but sometimes I just can't help myself.

FinnishViking

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5782 on: May 28, 2015, 09:56:09 AM »
Politics? Err...

Well let's give it a bash. One of the big reasons that people are voting for the basic finns is that the other parties couldn't handle the current economy crisis. This is one of the reasons the centre party popped down and up during the last two elections since they were claimed to be the biggest plunderers before the latest election and now people are going back to them after seeing that SDP and the coalition party didn't manage to hold up either.

As for the basic finns they are popular because they are a new wind in the grand scheme of political game and offer an actual convervative alternative to the current ones. They do have the serious problem of lacking the skill and experience of the other parties and when the original "Jytky" came i brushed them off mostly as rednecks, but now that Soini has made an effort to clean up their image and has replaced many of the trouble makers i actually view them as a very legimate party to vote for since they do support stuff like removing forced bilingualism and are in favor of a stronger army. Of course as politics go and since i view myself as a leftist liberal it's a hard choice since they also advocate for harsher sentecing and as Pessi mentioned the cuts on education aren't optimal for me either.

Overall for me it's a balancing act in my mind. Basic finns or BS ( har har har so funneh ) didn't get the financial minister spot that went to the coalition party, but they did get the postion as the foreing minister so they have more say in EU matters. In my mind it's overall a fair enough split and with us getting a bit more reasonable defence minister i'm content. Really only thing that really irks me is the justice* minister and i will see how that goes down.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 10:07:07 AM by FinnishViking »

Koeshi

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5783 on: May 28, 2015, 10:03:17 AM »
See, ^this^ is what I mean.  Different people telling the same story in rather different ways.

(and to be fair a tad more balanced this time giving both good and bad points)

FinnishViking

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5784 on: May 28, 2015, 10:13:45 AM »
See, ^this^ is what I mean.  Different people telling the same story in rather different ways.

(and to be fair a tad more balanced this time giving both good and bad points)

Well thats what i have always striven for in life. I always wish to understand why someone does/decides/is motivated by so i can see their view point in a different angle and may even learn something new in the process. I don't have to agree with them, but it's always good to actually listen to someone who sees things differently rather than antagnize them over it.

Also since i'm something that one could call a big contradiction with my beliefs sometimes, i often find a mix of different ideals to be the best suited for me. This also saddly holds the neagtive of sometimes being indecisive on certain things because i think both view points have their merits while i know the other one is in my mind better.

Emil

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5785 on: May 28, 2015, 10:55:53 AM »
Not touching the lukewarm debate here, is there any 'minnions' in Wisconsin? 'Cause we're taking a stave church back to Norway from you!
http://www.na-weekly.com/featured/stave-church-may-move-yet-again/

Ignore the title, it's happening. This is so cool, it's coming to my town even!

ParanormalAndroid

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5786 on: May 28, 2015, 11:13:38 AM »
Basic Finns, enemies of the Acidic Finns. What a strange party name.
Chemistry jokes!
If they have a debate, does it just fizzle out and become.... Neutral?

koalalou

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5787 on: May 28, 2015, 11:14:43 AM »
Chemistry jokes!
If they have a debate, does it just fizzle out and become.... Neutral?

We should consult the textbooks


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Fimbulvarg

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5788 on: May 28, 2015, 11:16:32 AM »
Not touching the lukewarm debate here, is there any 'minnions' in Wisconsin? 'Cause we're taking a stave church back to Norway from you!
http://www.na-weekly.com/featured/stave-church-may-move-yet-again/

Ignore the title, it's happening. This is so cool, it's coming to my town even!
They painted it turquoise and pink? .... We need to liberate the poor thing.

Chemistry jokes!
If they have a debate, does it just fizzle out and become.... Neutral?
I dunno, what happens when a really strong base makes contact with a really strong acid?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 11:23:18 AM by Fimbulvarg »

Mélusine

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #5789 on: May 28, 2015, 11:21:39 AM »
They painted it turquoise and pink? .... We need to øiberate the poor thing.
You need to what ? *I-don't-understand's smile*
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