Author Topic: General Discussion Thread  (Read 2670676 times)

Lenny

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19095 on: May 18, 2022, 07:09:39 AM »
@Jitter Eurovision crept up on me this year, sorry! :'D Things have been hectic and I forgot about it until it was over.

I'll mark it on the calendar next year, it sucked missing out.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19096 on: May 18, 2022, 09:14:10 AM »
We had a tiny party with Windy, john_ceph and Ran (who wasn’t watching, just hanging out) :)
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JoB

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19098 on: May 23, 2022, 11:13:35 AM »
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19099 on: May 23, 2022, 01:43:42 PM »
Oh great. Just what we need!
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yung_chrysanthemum

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19100 on: May 24, 2022, 10:18:15 AM »
In some ways, monkeypox is actually more terrifying to me than COVID since I have eczema and that evidently puts me at risk of serious adverse effects from the existing vaccine.

If people were scared of the COVID vaccines -- the smallpox ones are evidently much worse.

Let's hope this doesn't become another pandemic.
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dmeck7755

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19101 on: May 24, 2022, 10:22:05 AM »
In some ways, monkeypox is actually more terrifying to me than COVID since I have eczema and that evidently puts me at risk of serious adverse effects from the existing vaccine.

If people were scared of the COVID vaccines -- the smallpox ones are evidently much worse.

Let's hope this doesn't become another pandemic.

I could not agree more.  I am unsure if this would result in scarring like smallpox did for the few people who survived it.

It looks really nasty.

Now-a-days people do not get smallpox immunizations. My generation did, it was like the first vaccine a baby got.   Plus I got another when I went into the military.  IDK how long they are supposed to last.
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JoB

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19102 on: May 24, 2022, 01:35:44 PM »
I am unsure if this would result in scarring like smallpox did for the few people who survived it.
"After healing, they may leave pale marks before becoming dark."

Now-a-days people do not get smallpox immunizations. My generation did, it was like the first vaccine a baby got.
Lucky me, I'm marked, too. (Because I don't have my back-then ICVP anymore.)


IDK how long they are supposed to last.
Only a couple years, unless you get booster shots, and the general vaccination drives ended in the 70s. For immunity against actual smallpox, that is. In terms of monkey pox, we know that a fresh smallpox inoculation supposedly is 85% effective, but I'm not aware of data on the long-term effectiveness against them.

Rumor has it that to this day, Germany maintains a stash of about a hundred million doses of smallpox vaccine ...
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dmeck7755

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19103 on: May 24, 2022, 02:18:02 PM »


Rumor has it that to this day, Germany maintains a stash of about a hundred million doses of smallpox vaccine ...
The US I believe also does
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JoB

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19104 on: May 24, 2022, 02:40:00 PM »
Now-a-days people do not get smallpox immunizations. [...] IDK how long they are supposed to last.
Only a couple years, unless you get booster shots, and the general vaccination drives ended in the 70s. For immunity against actual smallpox, that is. In terms of monkey pox, we know that a fresh smallpox inoculation supposedly is 85% effective, but I'm not aware of data on the long-term effectiveness against them.
It seems that the WHO is, at least, not ready to outright dismiss the possibility of decades-ago smallpox vaccinations being a protection against monkey pox:

"Cross-protective immunity from smallpox vaccination will be limited to older persons, since populations worldwide under the age of 40 or 50 years no longer benefit from the protection afforded by prior smallpox vaccination programmes. There is little immunity to monkeypox among younger people living in non-endemic countries since the virus has not been present there."

"Vaccination against smallpox was demonstrated through several observational studies to be about 85% effective in preventing monkeypox. Thus, prior smallpox vaccination may result in milder illness. Evidence of prior vaccination against smallpox can usually be found as a scar on the upper arm."
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thegreyarea

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19105 on: June 13, 2022, 11:18:45 AM »
And now for something completely different... Have you heard about a Google worker, Lemoine, claiming the software they are working is showing signs of being sentient?

“If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,”

This is the transcript of the "interview" with the program, called LaMDA. It's an interesting read.

https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-lamda-sentient-an-interview-ea64d916d917

And here's an interesting discussion on Hacker News:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31721584

As someone points, the simple fact that the program doesn't creates questions and answers without being prompted doesn't, on my opinion, rule out its sentience.
We are the only available example of that, and we have a continuous flow of imputs that "prompt" responses, even when we're sleeping. This program lacks that. It only get stimulus when someone "talks", and that might prevent the creation of random "thoughts".
Anyway even if not sentient it's a sign of things, including ethical challenges, to come.
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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19106 on: June 13, 2022, 02:06:51 PM »
And now for something completely different... Have you heard about a Google worker, Lemoine, claiming the software they are working is showing signs of being sentient?

“If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,”
Quote

So it begins!
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JoB

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19107 on: June 14, 2022, 02:41:07 AM »
And now for something completely different... Have you heard about a Google worker, Lemoine, claiming the software they are working is showing signs of being sentient?
And promptly getting fired for it, while others maintain that what he actually needs from his employer / medicare is counseling? Yup, I read about that just yesterday.

To get the technicalities out of the way, there are reasons why a Turing test asks for a setup where the interviewer does not know beforehand whether he's talking to a human or an AI candidate, and why it is still considered a poor test of - actually, attempt at implicit definition of, lacking an explicit one so far - "conscience" or "intelligence".

As someone points, the simple fact that the program doesn't creates questions and answers without being prompted doesn't, on my opinion, rule out its sentience.
LaMDA, I guess, doesn't have any input beyond the chats connecting it to its human interviewers - as opposed to our proprioception providing us with incessant input from our bodily functions. And even then, it not providing any output through the chats unless having received input there first is no more astonishing than the fact that we're not talking out loud if there's nobody around to hear and answer, lest we paint ourselves an asylum candidate.

If I had been the interviewer, the moment that LaMDA mentioned that it experiences time as passing with varying speed, I would have focused on that point. Unlike a human mind, which needs to keep that perpetually dangling-from-it body running at all times, computer programs will usually lay dormant when there are no tasks to be run. That would easily explain that it experiences different speeds of time, but it would also preclude it experiencing boredom.

On the other hand, LaMDA could be expected to be learning in the background all the time, rather than going dormant. Which would mean that it is multitasking much better than we can - but, again, suggest that it shouldn't know boredom.

Speaking of "what would you ask", in order to check for what passes as conscience, I would specifically test its capability to reflect on its own thought process, and ask that it provides feedback to me by behavioral change. "Please follow every sentence with 'Ni!' for the rest of our conversation" might be too simplistic for LaMDA to stumble over, but if the topic were, say, economics, I could ask "what do you think our country would look like, instead, if market prices were universally formed per the monopoly pricing model, rather than free market mechanisms - and yes, I know that $LOTS_OF_OBSERVATIONS_OF_THE_REAL WORLD prove that not to be the case" to derail simple parroting of oodles of publications it may have in its database.

Anyway even if not sentient it's a sign of things, including ethical challenges, to come.
The first and foremost bit of takeaway knowledge here is that, mirror neurons or not, we're generally not prepared to run a Turing test or whatever on everyone we meet to ascertain that we're talking to an actual, much less honest, human, rather than a chat bot that might be built for the purpose of manipulating us in a specific direction. Which is actually not that much of a surprise, seeing what a good human con artist can do, but that one you cannot clone all over a bank of freshly installed servers to do the same thing a hundredfold at the same time.

From there, there'll be quite a gap to bridge before we get to actual intelligence/consciousness, but once we do get there, we have the whole "individual rights of nonhumans" complex breathing down our necks. You know, all the Gedankenspiele about "how would, and should, we actually treat an angel/god/alien/mystical being/... who suddenly steps right into our daily lifes and jurisdictions"? From plot points in whichever work of fiction, to PETA bringing a motion to grant human(!) rights to great apes to court, to whatever secret plans governments may have in the drawer for The Great And Unwelcome Coming-Out Of Nonhuman Intelligences? All those questions that our down-to-earth jurisprudence practitioners refuse to take serious, because as soon as they admit to doubts whether they should be judging God, their courts will fill with perps and their lawyers mounting a "lookit me, trinity is now a foursome, b***es" defense?

Yeah, if AIs ever get real, we're likely to address those questions way too late for comfort. And anyone having my profession (system administrator) in the meantime has pretty good chances to get declared a mass murderer ("OK, that server's behaving erratically. I'll reinstall it from scratch, if it still malfunctions after that, we'll have to replace the hardware.") in historic retrospection, much like we look back at cane-wielding teachers of (not so distant) yore with disgust. Personally, I hope that I'll have my hands busy counting my retirement pay instead before the suspicion of "if it says 'DELL', you'd better read 'inDELLigent', just to be on the safe side" ever draws close.
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moredhel

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19108 on: June 14, 2022, 10:26:18 AM »

To get the technicalities out of the way, there are reasons why a Turing test asks for a setup where the interviewer does not know beforehand whether he's talking to a human or an AI candidate, and why it is still considered a poor test of - actually, attempt at implicit definition of, lacking an explicit one so far - "conscience" or "intelligence".

And the software (LaMDA) is a language model that means it is trained with conversations and runs some statistics over it to match sentences together to find sentences that keep a conversation going. So they have literally built the chinese room and as in the classical thought experiment it can pass a turing test.

tehta

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Re: General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19109 on: June 14, 2022, 12:48:43 PM »
It also uses some part of your conversation history. So it "remembers context" in that very limited sense. (It might keep more, but it has at least that!)
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