General Discussion Thread

[Sigrid Marie]

Weather is not the same as climate.

True, but the climate changes have lead to more extreme wheather

[ThisCat]

Weather is not the same as climate.

Let me tell you something about physics. Both movements (wind) and heat is energy. If you pump a heap of energy into the atmosphere by heating it up, you get more wind!

[Eich]

Let me tell you something about physics. Both movements (wind) and heat is energy. If you pump a heap of energy into the atmosphere by heating it up, you get more wind!

I think Fim studies the weather?  I might be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten.

[Fimbulvarg]

True, but the climate changes have lead to more extreme wheather

Sure, many people argue that they already have, but the scale of the changes is still a point of debate. The crucial difference between weather and climate is that the weather is  meteorological phenomena occuring at present or in the short term, whereas climate is a statistical unit for weather. The common definition of capital C Climate is the average weather over a period greater than 30 years. You said it yourself, worst storm in 20 years. The climatic significance of the current weather is not necessarily big.

The important thing is that this is often lost on people in the global warming debate. When we get a week or so of exceptionally warm and humid weather/exceptionally cold and dry weather people always go "this proves/disproves global climate change". That's simply not how climate works. It's just impossible to say anything about it by looking at the weather forecast, you have to sit down and look at the long term trends.

Let me tell you something about physics. Both movements (wind) and heat is energy. If you pump a heap of energy into the atmosphere by heating it up, you get more wind!

Your point being (and I'm going to assume that you don't deliberately intend to be patronising here)?

[ThisCat]

Your point being (and I'm going to assume that you don't deliberately intend to be patronising here)?

Don't mean to be patronizing, no. :/ It's a bad habit, sorry.
My point is, warmer weather on average, which is what global warming is, does logically lead to more extreme weather. It's pretty simple.

[asadderandawiserman]

Don't let the name deceive you, it's the worst storm Norway has seen in 20 years

Wow, that strong? In spite of how terrible and destructive they can be, part of me really likes storms. I think a not entirely rational part of my mind really enjoys the sensation of things 'happening.' It's arguable that the absence of a storm is something 'happening' just as much as a storm, but darn if a storm doesn't feel like something's happening.

[Eich]

Sure, many people argue that they already have, but the scale of the changes is still a point of debate. The crucial difference between weather and climate is that the weather is  meteorological phenomena occuring at present or in the short term, whereas climate is a statistical unit for weather. The common definition of capital C Climate is the average weather over a period greater than 30 years. You said it yourself, worst storm in 20 years. The climatic significance of the current weather is not necessarily big.

The important thing is that this is often lost on people in the global warming debate. When we get a week or so of exceptionally warm and humid weather/exceptionally cold and dry weather people always go "this proves/disproves global climate change". That's simply not how climate works. It's just impossible to say anything about it by looking at the weather forecast, you have to sit down and look at the long term trends.

Mmm, learning.  I never knew there was a difference between "climate" and "Climate."  There should probably be a different word for it... 
Thanks for summing that up, though; it makes sense.  Out of curiosity, do you know how long we've been recording weather/Climate patterns?  That's something I've always wondered but never really felt like digging through...

[kjeks]

Fen seems to be out of electricity now. poor puppy.

Our electricity pole in the garden still holds. but we have many trees around that are big and hold the wind back. the norht of Germany is affected more than we here in the west.

[Fimbulvarg]

Don't mean to be patronizing, no. :/ It's a bad habit, sorry.
My point is, warmer weather on average, which is what global warming is, does logically lead to more extreme weather. It's pretty simple.

Sure, that's what people fear, especially in Florida and such places. My objection, which I should probably just have written out from the start to avoid misunderstandings, is that the wind is quite capable of blowing into a full scale hurricane without climate change being involved.

Additional trivia: the wind blows due to differences in athmospheric pressure (the density of the air molecules). The greater the pressure drop over a distance the stronger the wind. Differences in temperature (which causes differences in air molecule density) is the main cause of the differences in pressure.
If you open a meteorological map of Norway you can see the culprit behind this weather marked as a big red L.

[Sigrid Marie]

Wow, that strong? In spite of how terrible and destructive they can be, part of me really likes storms. I think a not entirely rational part of my mind really enjoys the sensation of things 'happening.' It's arguable that the absence of a storm is something 'happening' just as much as a storm, but darn if a storm doesn't feel like something's happening.

I love storms, so I understand what you're trying to say. I also happen to love thunder and lightning, and heavy rain in the summer while I'm out swimming

[Fen Shen]

Uh, no, we're out of any public transportation at the moment, but we still have electricity. And I hope it stays that way. :/ By the way, in Germany the storm is called "Felix", although I doubt he brings any luck...

[Eich]

I love storms, so I understand what you're trying to say. I also happen to love thunder and lightning, and heavy rain in the summer while I'm out swimming

Yess, to all of these things.  Rain-swimming is a rare occurrence, but a nice one.
Our previous dog used to be afraid of lightning, because our house got struck when she was home alone.  We had to bring her inside or she would scratch the paint off of the door. 

[Nimphy]

If you open a meteorological map of Norway you can see the culprit behind this weather marked as a big red L.

...Lars maybe?

[asadderandawiserman]

I love storms, so I understand what you're trying to say. I also happen to love thunder and lightning, and heavy rain in the summer while I'm out swimming

Lots of fun things there. Many miles away in Cornwall we've just got a boring light wind and rain, but my friends lost their garden door to the wind a few nights back, so that's something.

And thanks, Fim, for the facts. I knew some bits, but never knew that Climate was as wide as 30 years. Although, as a student of Evolution, it's slightly worrying that 30 feels like long time to me...

[kjeks]

...Lars maybe?

Took a tank to the sky and started conquering the world by storm?