General Discussion Thread

[Ragnarok]

Shock collar.

Seriously

Seconded. Was essential in training our two very large, very rambunctious dogs.

[steadfastjewel]

{I have never lived with a dog for extended periods of time before, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.}

How much exercise is this dog getting? It sounds like your living space might be on the small side, especially for multiple people + a dog that don't all get along. I know some people treat their dogs by the toddler principle- if you let them run around a whole bunch they'll be less inclined to mischief later on. My friend's dog was also quite jumpy as a youngling, but getting her out on a good long hike would leave her much more suitable for polite society. Of course, this idea predicates on your roommate having the extra time to give the dog extra attention in that way. Out of curiosity, do you know how old the dog is? If they're a rescue, it's also possible that they might simply have some unfortunate tendencies that are just hard to correct. I hope that things get better for you!

[Róisín]

Both a shock collar and exercise can help. My son's kelpie was utterly crazy until he got a ten-mile run every morning. And big leaping dogs can be dangerous, even if not actively trying to savage you. The owner of a sharehouse where I lived in Sydney had a huge territorial pitbull which had the charming habit of throwing itself at people on the stairs, knocking them down and causing several nasty falls.

And big leaping dogs can be a problem even if friendly. I was once knocked out by a friend's Afghan hound. Oscar meant no harm, he was just rushing up and greeting me with a loving embrace, but he had forgotten that his front leg was in a heavy cast at the time, so that when he flung his paws around my neck I got the plaster-and-chicken-wire cast full in the temple, and ended up with a bleeding wound and a concussion.

Fortunately, the person I presently know who has a pack of large dogs keeps them under firm discipline. She rescues abandoned big dogs and heavy horses, and at present her farm is home to several Clydesdales and about a dozen wolfhounds, elkhounds and deerhounds. Without that discipline it would be utter chaos, especially since some of these animals had been badly treated and not socialised. Fools will buy these glamourous huge animals not realising that they are expensive to feed and knock things over, then dump them when they can't manage. Humans, grrrr!

[Lenny]

Also disclaimer, I haven't owned a large dog, I've just read and absorbed a stupid amount of dog behaviour stuff because one day I do want to own a large dog >.>

It might be an idea to link you to good things in the dog's mind, rather than neutral or "not supposed to be here" which is what it seems to be right now from what you're saying? (As he's barking at you even when held back it seems a bit more than just a big excited dog that wants to greet you and makes me think it might be a territory thing if it's not solved by exercise.) That does involve you and owner being okay with you being somewhat involved in his care, and involve time and effort from both of you, but it might be worth a shot. (ex. training him with commands he's learnt, maybe helping feed him, stuff like that)

Also definitely echoing daily exercise here, that can solve a load of things. If he's not getting any, in what I assume is a student apartment with no yard, little space, and owner not being home for a large part of the day, it's... not a good place for the dog to be. If he's under-exercised, everything else is much harder, and it'll be difficult to ascertain what behaviour is due to his lack of exercise and what is due to other problems. Some breeds also need far, far more than just one walk a day - several high energy working breeds need more like two walks + mental stimulation (why border collies, German Shepherds, huskies etc. don't really make great apartment pets - or just even pets - unless you're a very disciplined owner).

Owner might or might not go for a shock collar, some people are vehemently against them even for large dogs. Regardless, since you don't seem to be part of his life much outside of being in the same area, getting disciplined whenever he sees you might not be the best idea - need to make sure that he can distinguish between you being there with him, and him lunging/barking at you.

Oh, and just thought of a thing, that might or might not have been tried yet - if she's been attempting to train him and had some success with some commands, you guys could work on you entering the common room with him there with her distracting him with commands and treats (rather than just holding him back), to teach him that you're not a big deal. But again, that will require work and time from the both of you. Is you opening your door a trigger/alert for him? She needs to desensitise him to that if it is.

And not sure if owner's done this, but often obedience training can be pretty generic. If she hasn't told them of the dog's specific problems and gotten advice and training specific to that, she probably should do that. They can probably give better help/tips than anyone here can.

[Róisín]

Lenny, those are all good points. Years ago, a friend owned a large fearsome black dog of whom most people were afraid, and trained him taking that into account. He wasn't vicious, just huge and fast and bumptious, but when he charged people, especially little kids, or people like me who had had the experience of being badly savaged by random dogs, they had no way of knowing that. So she thought through what people usually do in those circumstances, with the result that when she realised he couldn't be trained out of running up to people, she trained Scaramouche to respond to people freezing in place, or throwing up their hands, or yelling "Go away!" by rolling onto his back, wagging his tail and generally looking gormless and sweet. That defused a number of what could have been unpleasant situations.

[midwestmutt]

We are getting a Springtime winter storm today. We are expecting up to 5 inches of snow here in Northwestern Illinois where I live over a 12 hour period. Tomorrow I will be setting up camp for a week-long Buckskinner Rendezvous an hour north of here in Wisconsin where they are expecting 6-7 inches of snow today. Fortunately the snow is expected to melt tomorrow in 45 F temperatures. The event, sponsored by the club I belong to, will open on Tuesday. Looks like it will be rainy off and on all week. I'm just kind of picking up where I left off last October. Somehow we always manage to have a great time. The odd weather just gives us bragging rights.

[thorny]

He wasn't vicious, just huge and fast and bumptious, but when he charged people, especially little kids, or people like me who had had the experience of being badly savaged by random dogs, they had no way of knowing that.

Not only that, but he could easily have hurt someone by knocking them over. And falls in people whose bones, because of age or other reasons, are fragile can be dangerous.

I hesitate to weigh in on the shock collar issue, because the very idea makes me cringe but people who I respect have recommended it (here and elsewhere); but the dog who set off this discussion most definitely needs to be properly trained. And fast. Even if he means no harm, he may cause serious harm to somebody (which also, in many places, puts the dog at serious risk of his life).

And I agree that many dogs need a whole lot more chance to run than they're getting -- and, in some cases, that really does mean run, not just walk or jog. Very few people can provide proper exercise on a leash for dogs originally bred to be able to run at speed for hours every day. This has less to do with the size of the dog than the particular breed, and to some extent the nature of the individual dog.

-- in other general discussion, I really, really wish my fields would dry out enough to work. The amount of rainfall on any particular day has mostly not been huge; but it just keeps raining, and raining, and raining, with only brief dry bits intervening that aren't long enough to get anything done. Though maybe this afternoon it might dry long enough to let me mow some lawn; it needs it.

[Róisín]

thorny, good points! I quite agree about the risk to fragile folk, and sometimes even the able-bodied, citing my own experiences with Oscar, the Afghan Hound who knocked me out with his plaster cast, and the horrendous Sydney pitbull. And training is hugely important, both for the dog and their owner. I think I have mentioned a friend over in Gippsland who is a professional dog trainer, both of herding dogs (she lives in a farming area) and of seeing-eye dogs and other assistance dogs. Her advice is to start talking to puppies, in a calm authoritative voice, as soon as they are born, and to start training them as soon as they are mobile. She says you should be firm but never cruel, and reinforce advances in obedience by giving a small reward accompanied by a proud and affectionate tone of voice. She keeps a pocket full of dried fish flakes for this purpose, giving a 'good dog' a pinch of said fish flakes when the dog learns something, since this a reward which is not only pleasing to the dog, but healthy.

And I wish there was some way for you to share with us your excessive rain. We have had .2 of a mil of rain since the start of the year, the driest autumn in the century and a half that consistent records have been kept. Don't like it!

Midwestmutt, may I say that I also envy your weather? We have the Gumeracha Mediæval Fair next weekend, and unless the weather breaks we won't be able to run the cooking spits, blacksmith's forges or other fires the craftspeople use for their displays, and the group of Aboriginal women who usually have a cooking fire down by the creek, at which they feed passers-by with native foods, won't be able to do that either. And the Mylor English Ale, which is on the same weekend this year, won't be able to do their huge bonfire or have the torchlight procession and firedancers. Rain is usually easier to deal with than heat and drought.

[thorny]

Yes, I wish we could share all these weather extremes back around, and get all of us something more in the middle!

[Róisín]

Yeah, I wish! I guess all we can do is live with care not to make the situation worse, plant trees and try to keep them alive until the atmosphere and climate can stabilise a bit.

[thorny]

And vote . . .

though I don't know how much of an issue that is, in Australia.

[Róisín]

It is an issue here. Our conservatives (confusingly called the 'Liberal Party' out here), are also in many cases climate change deniers. Even the so-called Country Party is largely biased toward the interests of the big east coast cities and the mining industry because those larger population centres and megarich companies are where the money and influence are.

And fascism is on the rise here too, as people are running scared because of their loss of security and livelihood, and want somebody to blame (we only have to look at how that one played out in 1930s Germany or present-day America), even if not as badly as in Europe and America, with its accompanying 'make Australia great again' nonsense. We also have the problem of foreign interference, not so much directly in politics because our electoral system is still remarkably representative of what the voters actually want, with no electoral college to modify 'what the hoi polloi think they want'. However, it is happening by commercial interference, undercover infiltration of big companies, huge land purchases through shelf companies, and the good old traditional method of buying politicians.

All this is happening against the background of horrendous real-world droughts, floods and fires as, well, the climate changes. But most of that is not majorly affecting the big east coast cities beyond the level of inconvenience, or not as much as it does the country. Up north the country has been flooded to the extent of huge environmental and infrastructure destruction and stock losses, while down here we have record-breaking heat and drought. And dust storms, urgh, some of them even reaching as far east as Sydney.

We have elections in May. I will certainly be voting.

[thorny]

I think the coastal cities here are starting to notice the water rising.

But then, in the USA the cities tend to run liberal, anyway; though how this managed to become a left-right issue is confounding to me -- well, I suppose the right thinks of it as having to do with government regulations; that may have something to do with it.

[Ragnarok]

I think the coastal cities here are starting to notice the water rising.

But then, in the USA the cities tend to run liberal, anyway; though how this managed to become a left-right issue is confounding to me -- well, I suppose the right thinks of it as having to do with government regulations; that may have something to do with it.

The right in the USA tends to oppose critical thinking (and no, that's not a strawman, there's been campaigns on the right who literally have 'oppose teaching of critical thinking skills' as part of their platform) and dislikes science. I think it's an end-product of how economic conservatism ended up becoming entwined with the religious right- the economic right doesn't like things that cut corporate profits, the religious right already has a distrust of science in general due to evolution being a thing, and both influence and feed off each other until we reach such heights of stupidity as 'I am holding a snowball, therefore climate change isn't real' (again, literally happened, on the Senate floor no less).

[Demopans]

Everyone is going crazy nowadays. It doesn’t help when people stay inside echo chambers inside echo chambers