Character Development: Onni

[Latiria]

Indeed (and welcome to you!).  Just as an aside, I'm under the impression that everyone in Keuruu is housed in barracks, not individual family units.  There might be family units in the barracks, but we have seen that Lalli had his own (tiny) barrack room - presumably Onni & Tuuri would as well.

Thanks)

I'm not sure they have any family unit in Keuruu. Once in Mora Tuuri said she hasn't seen any children for a while... Hotakainens could be an exception (or one of the exceptions), and had lived together for the first time after arriving in Keuruu. But not for long.

I see no reasons for creating a nuclear family (without children) in year 90 on military base...

[Temteno]

Latiria, I like your conclusions about astrology and connecting it to these characters. I would've never thought about it!

P.S.: I disagree with many things from the previous comments (and totally agree with another), but this is only my opinion. For example, in my opinion, Onni was rude to Reynir only once, giving him a punch in the face. More of this, it can be easily to write off on emotions (incidentally, for the entire comics we have never seen Onni realistically cried, although causes was abound; under this Tuuri, Reynir and perhaps Lally cried), and judging by his response in Iceland, he even not took this to heart. All the rest of the time, it was either logical exclamations (I can't teach you – I don't know your gods, we won't meet again – I kind of went to die, you don't need to thank me – it's my job, look for this church yourself – I can't do it from Sweden), or systematic sentences (Oh, I told Lally, not you not to come either systematic (Oh, I told Lally, not you not to come again - didn't I tell you not to come again? - well, now I definitely told you not to come again). Not to mention the number of times he thanked Reynir, apologized to him, saved his life, and generally spent his time on him.

I agree, Onni hasn't really been that rude to him - and let's take in account that Reynir has had his small share of being mildly rude. The punch on Reynir's face was definitely just a way for Onni to let his emotions flow because he felt useless and Reynir just happened to be there. Maybe something like "if Reynir hadn't lied to me I could've saved Tuuri" went through his head at the spur of a moment. He probably didn't remember it afterwards because Reynir had just stepped in the worst time when all his emotions and past's traumas were spilling out.

Though honestly, sometimes it feels like Reynir isn't given enough credit to his own skills. He learns quickly and can make fast judgements when situation calls it (him sending his fylgja to call Onni for help, the whole plan of Pastor Anne banishing Sleipnope etc.). He is also the most determined one out of the whole group when he just puts his mind to it. He just happens to lack some sort of situational awareness (different than with Lalli though), experience and ability to think further in future. He has still a habit to think the best of the people - Reynir wants to believe in them. It makes him look naive even when he isn't.
Reynir believes in Onni and he believes that Onni is a nice person. If Onni was truly rude to Reynir, he would've given up on him a long time ago.

I would also write some of the "rude" and "snarky" attitude as Minna's style of writing.

(About the crying thing - I think Minna mentioned once that she doesn't really draw characters crying. She finds it more powerful and emotional to have them in verge of tears than crying on-screen [please correct me if I'm wrong]. That's why it's safe to assume that Sigrun, Tuuri, Onni [multiple times], Lalli and Reynir have all cried off-screen - just keep track of when circles and/or redness appear under their eyes.)

[JoB]

I don't think we've seen anything about year 90 society which implies that Onni would be considered to have any right to lock his sister in the house, throw out her things, or do anything other than to try to talk her out of going.

Million kronur question: Do we know for sure whether society at large, or Tuuri herself, would ever have found out if Onni used his noita powers to that end?

(Which he apparently didn't, of course, but that's our hindsight from behind the 4th wall and down a different timeline ...)

[thorny]

Now that's an interesting -- and unnerving -- thought.

If mages are capable of changing people's minds on significant matters without anybody even noticing -- they'd be terrifying. Not that some of them might not be terrifying anyway; but that's a step beyond usual levels.

I would think that, if such a thing is even possible, there'd have to be some drastic work done during the training to try to prevent anybody from behaving like that. (In which case, of course, our almost-untrained Reynir could be a serious problem. He means well, of course. But horrible things have been done in the name of meaning well.)

[JoB]

(In which case, of course, our almost-untrained Reynir could be a serious problem. He means well, of course. But horrible things have been done in the name of meaning well.)

... foreshadowing much?

[wavewright62]

... foreshadowing much?

We didn't get to see the edition of the newspaper that covered palm trees, only the trifolium repens.

[Nadzak]

I am necroing this thread because it's about time. Onni is doing something stupid, to get his sister back.

[Jitter]

Hello Nadzak the Newbie! Do pop by to the introduction thread as well!

And yes, clearly a lot character development can be seen. He's conquered his fear quite admirably although today's page (p 328 / A2) seems to indicate he may have gone overboard with that!

Spoiler: today page • show

Today Onni is jumping off the cliff

In addition to the events in the flashback, he has recently demonstrated first incredible immaturity with the troll-onna-stick trick and when that failed, he was suddenly in his right mind again and took the team to his sanctuary, even agreed to explain his deeds, and didn't blow up on anybody's face at all. At least yet.

[wavewright62]

(psst - remove the apostrophe from the spoiler preview and it will show - doesn't like commas, either)

[Jitter]

Cheers Wave!

[lwise]

I hope I may be forgiven for a bit of thread necromancy.  I reread this thread, and no one seems to mention a point that I've thought about.  My comments are long so I put them in a spoiler.

What job did Taru offer to Onni?

Taru says, "What's with the hostility?!  I offered you a job, and you turned it down!"

Onni answers, "So you decided to take my family instead?"

Spoiler: So what was the job? • show

Lalli serves as scout.  Tuuri serves as driver,, skald, and mechanic.

Considering these jobs in reverse:

No one expected them to need a mechanic.  The plan was for them to explore near the tunnel for a couple of weeks, then return.  In case of any disaster, the survivors would be expected to flee back to base, in the tank if possible or on foot if they had to.  And, in fact, the tank did hold up without needing a mechanic's care for weeks until it was damaged by a troll.  So a mechanic wasn't needed and that wasn't the job.

I don't think Onni could have been hired as a skald.  His Icelandic is "special" and he doesn't seem to speak or understand Swedish, so I doubt he can read Danish.  Mikkel, however, can.   On page 270, Mikkel looks at the medical journal and says, "I'll definitely need to take a closer look at this one."  Tuuri says, "But that's my job!"  This makes me suspect that Mikkel was supposed to be the skald as well as the medic, and that Tuuri's academic skills were a bonus.

We don't know if Onni could serve as driver.  It may seem sort of unlikely that he could, but it's not like Tuuri was a very good driver.  Maybe they both were allowed to try driving a tractor a few times in Keuruu.  Alternatively, maybe the sponsors expected one of the others to figure out how to drive ("How hard can it be?")  So maybe Onni could have been offered a job as the driver, but not necessarily.

Finally, Lalli is the scout.  They absolutely need a scout, and no one else appears to be qualified to be one  -- which means that that is the job Taru offered to Onni.  But how could Taru expect Onni to be a scout?

My head-canon is that  Onni is able to send his spirit out to scout while his body remains safe behind walls, and that's the job Onni was supposed to do on the team, and what he did do in Keuruu.

[Jitter]

I think any discussion, in threads old or new, is very welcome! It’s not as if we have any challenges with too many posts nowadays. So please do comment on any thread you like! And create new ones!

To the matter at hand, you raise an interesting point. Presumably they would have had money for another person then? I’ve wondered about this a bit sometimes, but never got very far. I’ve thought Onni would have been a military mage.

But, while a mage may seem important to Taru, and possibly Trond would agree, the Västerströms don’t believe in magic and would certainly be against spending a hefty portion of the already too low budget on a mage.  Or would they just leave the staffing to Taru and Trond completely, without even reviewing any of it? But they did recruit Emil. Or was Taru planning to twist the truth, saying that her cousin will take care of the scouting, despite the fact that Onni definitely would not do any actual scouting?

Or maybe it was Onni she was meaning to trick? If she knew for a fact that Onni will not leave Keuruu, maybe she just ”offered” a position for him precisely for the purpose of shutting him up when he blames her for getting the young ones? Making him think it’s his fault that Tuuri ”had” to go?

As for your suggestion, my headcanon is that mages, or maybe only Finnish mages, can all feel the black presence (not just the voices but an idea where the beings are p) although possibly to varying degrees and distances. Lalli is actually the only one we see doing this (Väinö’s seeing very far on the water could mean literal seeing through the eyes of the gulls) but I think it’s universal for them. Sensing the natural spirits is part of their gift. But in my mind this only applies over a rather limited distancedozens rather than hundreds of meters.

[Jitter]

To clarify, I do think Väinö and the other sentinels get the detect-grossling sense via their animals. Vipers don’t see very far

[lwise]

To the matter at hand, you raise an interesting point. Presumably they would have had money for another person then? I’ve wondered about this a bit sometimes, but never got very far. I’ve thought Onni would have been a military mage.

Onni's profession is described as "Military: Mage" on page 72.  The question in my mind is what that would mean for a man who never goes outside the walls.

But, while a mage may seem important to Taru, and possibly Trond would agree, the Västerströms don’t believe in magic and would certainly be against spending a hefty portion of the already too low budget on a mage.  Or would they just leave the staffing to Taru and Trond completely, without even reviewing any of it? But they did recruit Emil.

The basic idea of the expedition came from Torbjörn, but I had the impression that Trond basically took over organizing it, as he is the most senior and experienced soldier.  After all, he recruited both Sigrun and Mikkel, who were the "superiors" of the other team members.  So if Taru said she had a Finnish mage-scout in mind, and Trond agreed, it wouldn't matter what the other sponsors thought.

Or was Taru planning to twist the truth, saying that her cousin will take care of the scouting, despite the fact that Onni definitely would not do any actual scouting?

Well, my theory is that she knew he was capable of scouting without leaving the tank.

Or maybe it was Onni she was meaning to trick? If she knew for a fact that Onni will not leave Keuruu, maybe she just ”offered” a position for him precisely for the purpose of shutting him up when he blames her for getting the young ones? Making him think it’s his fault that Tuuri ”had” to go?

That seems a bit tricky for Taru, who seems very straightforward, and also risky.  She couldn't be sure that Onni wouldn't leave Keuruu -- he did leave Keuruu, after all -- and what would she have done if he had accepted?

As for your suggestion, my headcanon is that mages, or maybe only Finnish mages, can all feel the black presence (not just the voices but an idea where the beings are p) although possibly to varying degrees and distances. Lalli is actually the only one we see doing this (Väinö’s seeing very far on the water could mean literal seeing through the eyes of the gulls) but I think it’s universal for them. Sensing the natural spirits is part of their gift. But in my mind this only applies over a rather limited distance: dozens rather than hundreds of meters.

I do think that Väinö sees through the eyes of the gulls, and I'm (slowly) writing a whole fic on that topic.  I figure that Lalli has a limited range for seeing grosslings, and Onni has a much larger range, maybe as much as a couple of kilometers.  So as a military mage, he could watch the immediate surroundings of Keuruu while scouts and hunters searched further out.

By the way, how did Torbjörn and Siv meet Trond and/or Taru to arrange this expedition?  I don't believe I've ever read a fic about that.

[lwise]

I guess I should finish and publish my little fic about Onni.