Survivor communities outside the known world

[Aierdome]

Even if it wasn't colonized from the beginning, it has strategic importance that makes me think that Iceland should have colonized it by now: Long-distance radio equipment, an airfield, geothermal energy, and a choke hold on leviathan migrations. Seriously, what's not to like?

My guess would be that post-Year 0 Iceland has never been much of an enthusiast of widening their borders or doing anything towards exploring the Silent World at all. Just look at how negative was the Council's attitude to the expedition - I wouldn't be surprised if Iceland's contact with the rest of Scandinavia came only when Norwegian drakkan sailed into Reykjavik or Finnish mage stumbled upon his Icelandic colleague in dreamspace.

As to the rest of your post, you're right about the ship's own supplies being available for the beginning and it being a big ship in itself, rather than something small - I haven't thought about either. What type of ship, you suppose, would make for the best ark? Cargo ships have the most supplies, but tiny crews, no more than a dozen; the opposite is true for passenger ships (not sure how many are there in N Atlantic - for all I know, the only oceanic people-carriers in existence in year 2015 are tropical cruisers). Military vessel would also be a good candidate - they have the discipline, supplies edible for good two decades and weapons that would turn any leviathan into chunky salsa - but on most Naval ships, women can be usually counted on two hands, which could present a problem when it came to prolonging the existence of the colony.

[microFerret]

I was guessing a military ship as well, but you may well be right that it would not be the best for starting a colony. I don't think any of the choices are really ideal, but I would guess that's really the best shot (or some combination of the choices? Maybe a cargo ship contacted some smaller civilian cruisers, or a group of smaller military or commercial ships banded together and decided it was their best bet). As far as Iceland goes, I think they would need to look at it more for its military importance than as a reasonable place to relocate civilians. It's small, even compared to Svalbard, and I think that the radio station and airstrip would probably be the most valuable things there.
Speaking of which, do we know if Iceland had military planes at year 0 in SSSS? I don't think it maintains its own air force, but there is a NATO presence there and I know that Reykjavik has its own airport. I feel like this would be an important detail, because if, for some reason, Iceland had no planes, I would think obtaining and maintaining them would be a first priority (especially given that this would be the only easy way to travel without being harassed by trolls).
Also, Jan Mayen actually *might* survive without a ship, as it maintains a research staff of up to 18 every winter, and has supplies to support at least that many for about a year. But any society of 18 would be hard-pressed to survive and repopulate for 90 years.

[Aierdome]

Speaking of which, do we know if Iceland had military planes at year 0 in SSSS? I don't think it maintains its own air force, but there is a NATO presence there and I know that Reykjavik has its own airport. I feel like this would be an important detail, because if, for some reason, Iceland had no planes, I would think obtaining and maintaining them would be a first priority (especially given that this would be the only easy way to travel without being harassed by trolls).
Also, Jan Mayen actually *might* survive without a ship, as it maintains a research staff of up to 18 every winter, and has supplies to support at least that many for about a year. But any society of 18 would be hard-pressed to survive and repopulate for 90 years.

Some sort of coalition between different ship types seems reasonable indeed - the best would probably be all three, military's weaponry, cargo carrier's supplies and cruiser's population. Those scientists are good news, too - they'd know a lot  about the land and could lend a helpful hand, not to mention knowing how to maintain the equipment.

As for Iceland's air force, they don't have fighter planes of their own - Iceland Air Defense System consists of radars and whooping total of 25 people. Other NATO countries do provide some planes to Keflavik base as part of Iceland Air Policing system, though, so this would be available, unless they pulled it back due to Rash. Then again, it's interesting question whether Iceland would let them out. And of course there's this small problem of aircraft, especially fighter craft, needing a dedicated fuel.

[microFerret]

As for Iceland's air force, they don't have fighter planes of their own - Iceland Air Defense System consists of radars and whooping total of 25 people. Other NATO countries do provide some planes to Keflavik base as part of Iceland Air Policing system, though, so this would be available, unless they pulled it back due to Rash. Then again, it's interesting question whether Iceland would let them out. And of course there's this small problem of aircraft, especially fighter craft, needing a dedicated fuel.

Thanks, that's actually really important, since it actually makes the Jan Mayen airstrip very valuable indeed. Speaking of which, has anyone adressed Franz Josef or the northern Canadian isles as potential candidates? Both are more of a stretch than Jan Mayen or Spitzbergen, but Franz Josef has oil, fish, and a Soviet airbase that could make it a candidate.
Also, I have a couple of other ideas that don't have active threads directly applicable to them, and I'm wondering where to post:
1. Questions about what happened to some of the military equipment left over by a few particular silent-world countries (I'm thinking of doing an SSSSona that relies heavily on equipment left behind by the Scots)
2. Potential strategies for reducing the threat of sea-beasts and leviathans.

Thanks!

[Laufey]

I think the main problem of Jan Mayen would be food... far as I know the land there is not arable and the climate is bad for growing anything. Sheep? Fishing and whaling (with the threat of sea beasts in mind)?

Then again, it's interesting question whether Iceland would let them out.

There's nothing Iceland could do to stop them though, especially when the old world has not yet collapsed entirely. Any military is first and foremost going to answer to their own country, so if home would order them to return they'd just do it and I doubt Iceland would want to mess with other countries' armed forces in that situation. Iceland would have no way of fueling the planes anyway, that much is for certain.

However, within Iceland aviation would not necessarily die entirely since we have lots of ultralight hobbyists and many small "airports" throughout the country (I say airport but that basically means a small landing strip, controls and a wind sock - take Gjögur for example). Ultralight planes, gliders and para-gliders within Iceland would be an option; being small and light the planes need much less fuel, and recently there's been interest in electric powered ones so with a bit of work Icelanders might be able to continue flying.

[Aierdome]

I think the main problem of Jan Mayen would be food... far as I know the land there is not arable and the climate is bad for growing anything. Sheep? Fishing and whaling (with the threat of sea beasts in mind)?

Ah, if the land isn't much for growing food, then yeah, probably yes. I wonder - if they had a big ship, say, a container ship, could they set up some sort of "fish farm" in it? I know that fish farms are usually found in lakes and the such, but with waters being risky, I guess it would be safer to have fish out of leviathans' reach.

However, within Iceland aviation would not necessarily die entirely since we have lots of ultralight hobbyists and many small "airports" throughout the country (I say airport but that basically means a small landing strip, controls and a wind sock - take Gjögur for example). Ultralight planes, gliders and para-gliders within Iceland would be an option; being small and light the planes need much less fuel, and recently there's been interest in electric powered ones so with a bit of work Icelanders might be able to continue flying.

Would you say any of them would be able to reach continental Europe? Both Mora and Bornholm have airports, after all. If not and those are just short-range crafts, I'd say that after a decade or so of patrolling the waters for survivors etc., they'd be unfortunately sacrificed for much-needed metal.

2. Potential strategies for reducing the threat of sea-beasts and leviathans.

For ships, metal hulls and guns. The good thing would also be a sonar and simply avoiding the sea beast.

For ports, thick nets at entrances to bays, and if you want to go more BOOM, mine fields. You could also, if you have time and tech to do this, make your ports so shallow that while ships could swim in, but a giant underwater beast would be as good as beached.

[Róisín]

Fish farms. Hmm. Have you come across the concept of aquaculture/aquaponics? Basically like hydroponics in gravel beds, with the beds being irrigated by water pumped from the fish tanks, thereby turning the fish waste into fertiliser. The gravel retains nutrients to feed the vegetables (You can even grow fruit trees and some grains). Clean water from the gardens is pumped back into the fish tanks, nicely aerated, and around it goes again. Some small farmers and more dedicated home gardeners around here use it. Might be a workable system for your survivors.

[microFerret]

Fish farms. Hmm. Have you come across the concept of aquaculture/aquaponics? Basically like hydroponics in gravel beds, with the beds being irrigated by water pumped from the fish tanks, thereby turning the fish waste into fertiliser.

I hadn't actually thought of this, but that seems like it might work well in this scenario! If there are two things that Jan Mayen has, they're fish and gravel. Especially if the survivors had seeds from ship cargo (probably potatoes) or even something better suited for the climate from the Global Seed Vault relatively nearby. Yay, I'm excited that my idea might actually work!

[Bookwormsmittie]

As a native New Zealander, I must point out the importance of a group many of you may not know about. The SCA. Google it if you don't know, please do not make me explain it. However... We have a group of people who can shoot bows (real not compound) can fight with a sword/rapier for real and know how to survive with no tech. If this group survived and passed on this knowledge to the other survivors (as we try to do already by gaining members), we would have enough skills and smarts to survive. Even moving from where we are to a colder climate is not a problem as we know what to pack, and how to pack.
New Zealanders as a whole in rural communities or grew up in rural communities would fare well, knowing how to defend themselves. Auckland would have fallen quickly due to the population and being the main international airport. Wellington may have fallen soon after due to the air traffic between cities. Christchurch would have the army base come in and take over most likely and may or may not be okay. Dunedin is actually about as cold as Christchurch in the actual temperatures but has less sunlight which Christchurch gets a decent amount of. Snow would be a hindering factor here. It does not like to snow above Otago (a region in the south of the South Island). The maori tribes may or may not have been mostly wiped out but their mages would be a force to be reckoned with. Their spiritual religion has been used in the form of blessings that people will swear by so its not a stretch to think that they would exist if New Zealand survived.

[Róisín]

Well, well! Some interesting ideas there. You'd need arts-and-sciences people and fighters rather than Mistress Laurel Seamchecker and her ilk, but it might just work.

 Just as well NZ ran to birdlife rather than too many mammals! Seals and other seabeasts might be a problem though.

Does NZ also have a Garrison (or whatever they call them nowadays) of the New Varangian Guard? Viking Society? Anything else of that kind?

Are there still Tohunga mages in Maori society? Practitioners of Makutu? The Golden People? I'd just about forgotten about that lot, thanks for reminding me. I know they used to practice both healing and war magic. And Tānemāhuta in particular is quite close to the Finnish Tapio in nature. Interesting possibilities.

[Void Slayer]

Well, well! Some interesting ideas there. You'd need arts-and-sciences people and fighters rather than Mistress Laurel Seamchecker and her ilk, but it might just work.

 Just as well NZ ran to birdlife rather than too many mammals! Seals and other seabeasts might be a problem though.

Does NZ also have a Garrison (or whatever they call them nowadays) of the New Varangian Guard? Viking Society? Anything else of that kind?

Are there still Tohunga mages in Maori society? Practitioners of Makutu? The Golden People? I'd just about forgotten about that lot, thanks for reminding me. I know they used to practice both healing and war magic. And Tānemāhuta in particular is quite close to the Finnish Tapio in nature. Interesting possibilities.

Even if there are no active practitioners, having portions of the cultural rituals known would probably be enough to restart the tradition. 

I really like the idea of New Zealand surviving as a capital of the known world for a Pacific Ocean survivor community.

[urbicande]

Even if there are no active practitioners, having portions of the cultural rituals known would probably be enough to restart the tradition. 

*A* tradition, perhaps.  It might not much resemble the old one.

[Róisín]

*A* tradition indeed. New Zealand, like Iceland or Hawai'i, may well have enough scraps left of the original traditions to reconstruct something recogniseable.

[heidiartsy]

Fish farms. Hmm. Have you come across the concept of aquaculture/aquaponics? Basically like hydroponics in gravel beds, with the beds being irrigated by water pumped from the fish tanks, thereby turning the fish waste into fertiliser. The gravel retains nutrients to feed the vegetables (You can even grow fruit trees and some grains). Clean water from the gardens is pumped back into the fish tanks, nicely aerated, and around it goes again. Some small farmers and more dedicated home gardeners around here use it. Might be a workable system for your survivors.

I was thinking about this too. Because it's easy to set up and easy to manage. Plus, you only need a small area.

[Fauna]

Fish farms. Hmm. Have you come across the concept of aquaculture/aquaponics? Basically like hydroponics in gravel beds, with the beds being irrigated by water pumped from the fish tanks, thereby turning the fish waste into fertiliser. The gravel retains nutrients to feed the vegetables (You can even grow fruit trees and some grains). Clean water from the gardens is pumped back into the fish tanks, nicely aerated, and around it goes again. Some small farmers and more dedicated home gardeners around here use it. Might be a workable system for your survivors.

Don't you need some special nutrient solution to keep it running though? Nutrients would still be removed from the system by harvesting fish and edible greens. I had a friend with an aeroponic system who had to add store-bought nutrients constantly to the water.