Survivor communities outside the known world

[Esn]

The problem with that kind of outpost is that it's nice and isolated but not necessarily inhabitable. For starters the White Sea like the Baltic usually freezes over during the colder months, which means that fishing is limited to a short season.

They would also have a difficult time fighting off any trolls crossing the ice.

Isn't that just as true for the surviving communities in Sweden and Finland? Seeing as they're on lakes that freeze in winter. Not sure about Bornholm... Wikipedia tells me that the Baltic Sea does on rare occasions completely freeze in winter.

Growing vegetables like potatoes is also difficult and provides small crops.

Surprisingly, it seems not. If you read Russian you can read section XII here (or use Google Translate). In that account, written in 1872, the monastery's vegetable garden is said to provide onions, cabbages, potatoes, cucumbers, carrots and radishes. The keeper is quoted as saying "we buy nothing from the city".

There is not really much there that can be turned into weapons, so they would have to conserve whatever they have.

Well, I imagine it would be the same problem as with the Finnish communities. There's a forest on Solovki. There are also over 600 lakes and a very extensive network of canals that was built over many centuries (bring your own inflatable boat if you ever visit!)

EDIT: Here are some photos of the canals. Looks a bit like Finland.

[Mayabird]

That monastery would be awesome, and then we could have Russians in the setting too!

Something wild I've been wondering is if there could be tiny bands of nomads wandering the Silent World in distant places.  They wouldn't be "communities" so to speak but rather an extended family or three, no more than maybe 20 people per group, all immune, shunning ruins and always on the move, secretive and furtive, maybe meeting up with another band every few years.  There could be boat people, living on large rivers and lakes, sleeping on the water or tiny islets by night and foraging by day.  Maybe hunter-gatherers on open plains, who burn the grasses every late fall to clear the land, with the most sure-eyed being spotters to alert the rest if there was any danger and they needed to move on.  In order to keep quiet their language may have become simply sign language and bird whistles for long distance communication.  A couple amongst their clan might be mages of sorts, using whatever innate talent they have to determine if danger is near or to try to keep it from noticing them.  Of course they'd probably keep a few cats following them around too. They might have a few metal tools they've been able to cling to but would basically be stone age, but they would still be survivors. 

To live, they would've had to become so quiet and hidden that if Our Heroes were to travel to some distant land and wander about, they could be followed by one of these groups for days without even realizing it.  They wouldn't know until one night they were camping and all of a sudden people emerge from surroundings without even making a rustle.

[Sue D Nym]

Here's something I've been wondering: what about the foreigners in places like Iceland? For instance, say that I (an American) were visiting Iceland when they closed down the borders. What would happen to tourists like me? I can understand that people in the other, mainland countries would be just about doomed. However, there would probably be a few foreigners trapped in Iceland. Would they be sent elsewhere or kept in Iceland until further development?

On another note, I think Great Britain would have a fifty-fifty chance of survival. While I think some of the more inaccessible towns in the Scottish Highlands would survive, I cannot imagine that much of the rest of England would survive as most towns here are pretty close together (my own town of residence is literally ten minutes walking time from another small town).

p.p.s. Did you know that in England, a settlement is a town if it has a market square and is a city if it has a cathedral?

[Ceceoh]

I believe that island nations who had the foresight to shut down their borders early, and more importantly, patrol and protect themselves from fleeing refugees would have fared pretty well. Japan certainly would have had a hand on the situation, and they have the fleet to protect themselves. Madagascar might have closed their borders, but I don't think they have the strength militarily to keep out determined survivors.

American survivalists might not do as well as you'd think. They are mostly loners. If they just had to avoid getting sick, that might work, but the trolls and beasties are way too vicious and strong to be defeated by small bands. You need numbers and coordinated efforts to get those monsters at bay.

[Esn]

That monastery would be awesome, and then we could have Russians in the setting too!

I know, right? If Minna decides to reveal at some later point in the story that any Russians did actually survive, that would be both one of the most logical locations for a surviving settlement and one of the most interesting ones.

But I don't imagine that the Scandinavians would ever find out if a settlement survived there unless someone (from either side) made the trek by boat. I suppose it's possible that fishing boats from both sides could accidentally meet, if they ventured far enough north.

Maybe there could be a big commotion later in the story as, to everyone's surprise, a ship from Russia suddenly appears from nowhere in a major port and a new community of survivors is discovered. (wishful thinking, hah)

Something wild I've been wondering is if there could be tiny bands of nomads wandering the Silent World in distant places.

I've been kind of assuming that that's exactly what might be encountered in the course of the adventure. We'll see...

[Fimbulvarg]

Here's something I've been wondering: what about the foreigners in places like Iceland? For instance, say that I (an American) were visiting Iceland when they closed down the borders. What would happen to tourists like me? I can understand that people in the other, mainland countries would be just about doomed. However, there would probably be a few foreigners trapped in Iceland. Would they be sent elsewhere or kept in Iceland until further development?

On another note, I think Great Britain would have a fifty-fifty chance of survival. While I think some of the more inaccessible towns in the Scottish Highlands would survive, I cannot imagine that much of the rest of England would survive as most towns here are pretty close together (my own town of residence is literally ten minutes walking time from another small town).

p.p.s. Did you know that in England, a settlement is a town if it has a market square and is a city if it has a cathedral?

We know from the prologue that Iceland closed its border completely. Iceland is fairly inaccessible with anything else than airplanes, and we can gleam from the Norwegian newspaper that Keflavik airport seems to have been shut down completely. It's doubtful that anyone would be required or even allowed to leave at that point.

As for the British it's probably possible that the Falklands have a large community of them. The British isles though don't really have any places that are truly isolated except from some of the Scottish coastal islands, possibly Man and Jersey to some extent.

[BrainBlow]

Isn't that just as true for the surviving communities in Sweden and Finland? Seeing as they're on lakes that freeze in winter. Not sure about Bornholm... Wikipedia tells me that the Baltic Sea does on rare occasions completely freeze in winter.

The problem is that there's a difference between a community initially simply holing up, and a sustainable population lasting for 90 years.
Those are wildly different. Not to mention that at the time of the rash outbreak it would essentially be nothing but a tourist object, and would as a result not have any viable gardens of food.(not that that could supply for thousands of people for nearly a hundred years)
So any population holing up there would be more likely to starve to death, fall victim to scurvy, or be crippled by other diseases. In any case, the population would not last until the present time of the comic.

[Cynic]

I believe that island nations who had the foresight to shut down their borders early, and more importantly, patrol and protect themselves from fleeing refugees would have fared pretty well. Japan certainly would have had a hand on the situation, and they have the fleet to protect themselves.

To big to much air traffic they clsoed to late so the rash was alreday in Japan. Possible for survivors on isolated island much like in Sweden/Finald/Denamrk/ or fjords as Norway yes but as whole like Iceland no chance at all.

Madagascar might have closed their borders, but I don't think they have the strength militarily to keep out determined survivors.

very possible

American survivalists might not do as well as you'd think. They are mostly loners. If they just had to avoid getting sick, that might work, but the trolls and beasties are way too vicious and strong to be defeated by small bands. You need numbers and coordinated efforts to get those monsters at bay.

I think they may need less copoeration to keep the troll out (if they built right at least), but complet loners will be gone in a gernations, single families very inbreed in two. And the same attitude of don't trust anybody and shoot first that keep them fairly safe from thr epedmic and the monsters will make it impossible to rebuild society by merging with other survivors.

 

[Thorin Schmidt]

American survivalists might not do as well as you'd think. They are mostly loners. If they just had to avoid getting sick, that might work, but the trolls and beasties are way too vicious and strong to be defeated by small bands. You need numbers and coordinated efforts to get those monsters at bay.

That's again why I refer to the Appalacians... those people are survivalist COMMUNITIES.  They even resent doctors, nurses, dentists and teachers who try to donate time to help them.  Like I said, they are isolationist to the point of willfull stupidity.  True, the mounatins there are pretty heavily wooded, but most of the communities are already solidly defended from outsiders.  It would not take much for some of those communities to become innaccessible.

Thre are also some lake-people enclaves in the ozarks, and swamp-dwellers in the Louisiana Bayou.

Also, there might be a possiblility of enclaves in the Great Plains of America.  I grew up in a relatively populated area of Nebraska, but it was still a 30-mile drive to the nearest town.  The terrain is FLAT.  You have unbroken views for MILES.  That town I spoke of? You could see the taller buildings from my house. 

So, as long as crops would continue to be viable, Nebraska farmers would do quite well, maybe not even having to cluster up all that much, since you'd be able to see anything coming long before it got close....

[Esn]

The problem is that there's a difference between a community initially simply holing up, and a sustainable population lasting for 90 years.
Those are wildly different. Not to mention that at the time of the rash outbreak it would essentially be nothing but a tourist object, and would as a result not have any viable gardens of food.(not that that could supply for thousands of people for nearly a hundred years)
So any population holing up there would be more likely to starve to death, fall victim to scurvy, or be crippled by other diseases. In any case, the population would not last until the present time of the comic.

Doesn't have to be thousands of people. Most of the settlements (particularly in Finland) seem to be under 1000 people, and that's after decades of relative stability. Probably there weren't much more than a few dozen survivors in many communities initially.

It all depends on if there was enough stored food to last the first winter - not for everyone who got trapped on the islands to survive, but for at least some. It's not correct to say that it's only a tourist attraction; there's also a functioning monastery. They restarted the garden in 2004, and have 800 types of plants growing there (many of them medicinal). There's a warm microclimate there that allows growing foods that don't normally grow that far north; even apricots, melons and watermelons (before 1917 they grew them in greenhouses, but they apparently grow even without, just not as well). If some of the population survived the first winter, they would have been able to replant the garden with more practical plants the following spring - then, smooth sailing, assuming the settlement was kept protected.

[ruth]

Stand Still, Stay Silent by ruthszulc, on Flickr

here's a little project of mine looking at what survivor communities outside the known world might look like! of course, everyone else's "known world" is going to be different if they haven't made contact. canada hasn't fared as well as iceland, and the largest community in the otherwise safe island of newfoundland—st. john's—fell early to the rash. isolation has been cold and lonely for its survivors, who aren't quite as keen on cleansing as the swedes, but nevertheless by year 90 there are a few projects to expand into the boundaries of the silent world. and the legacy of france lives on with its tiny colonial province.

[Esn]

That's great, Ruth!

It seems more or less believable, although why are there so many communities along the coast that don't seem to be in fjords?

I'm not sure that Newfoundland's population would stay that high... Iceland's is pretty high, but Iceland also has limitless geothermal energy, which Newfoundland doesn't.

[ruth]

That's great, Ruth!

It seems more or less believable, although why are there so many communities along the coast that don't seem to be in fjords?

I'm not sure that Newfoundland's population would stay that high... Iceland's is pretty high, but Iceland also has limitless geothermal energy, which Newfoundland doesn't.

that's probably true! it's kind of brutal to think about it though. i cut newfoundland's population to about 20% of its previous level, and newfoundland does have some sources of hydroelectric energy, but more realistically its population would fall even more drastically. that's harsh! a world with less than 100,000 people in it is kind of chilling to consider.

and many of the communities that seem to simply be on the coast (gaspé, grande-rivière, grand falls, gander, point amour, etc.) are actually on rivers, but they're somewhat small so i didn't doodle them out.

[Headfinder]

That's really cool ruth!
I've been trying one myself since yesterday (over 9000 hours in paintGIMP, do not steal  ), but I still can't find the right place for the settlements...

(Click for a biger one)

Something's clear though: It shouldn't be bigger than Mora, it should be away from the coast (The most densely populated areas, specially in the mediterranean, after the capital's surrroundings), and it should be In the northwest and north, because of the temperatures. Then there's things like castles, small walled towns, little villages in the mountains... The only two places I've found are Almeida (Portugal) and Ciudad Rodrigo (Spain), one next to the other, and I hope to find something in the Pyrenees...

Care to share any tips?

[BrainBlow]

Stand Still, Stay Silent by ruthszulc, on Flickr

here's a little project of mine looking at what survivor communities outside the known world might look like! of course, everyone else's "known world" is going to be different if they haven't made contact. canada hasn't fared as well as iceland, and the largest community in the otherwise safe island of newfoundland—st. john's—fell early to the rash. isolation has been cold and lonely for its survivors, who aren't quite as keen on cleansing as the swedes, but nevertheless by year 90 there are a few projects to expand into the boundaries of the silent world. and the legacy of france lives on with its tiny colonial province.

Wow, that's really good!
Is it a simple photoshop job, or do you make it by hand?

That's really cool ruth!
I've been trying one myself since yesterday (over 9000 hours in paintGIMP, do not steal  ), but I still can't find the right place for the settlements...

(Click for a biger one)

Something's clear though: It shouldn't be bigger than Mora, it should be away from the coast (The most densely populated areas, specially in the mediterranean, after the capital's surrroundings), and it should be In the northwest and north, because of the temperatures. Then there's things like castles, small walled towns, little villages in the mountains... The only two places I've found are Almeida (Portugal) and Ciudad Rodrigo (Spain), one next to the other, and I hope to find something in the Pyrenees...

Care to share any tips?

Your picture appears to be broken.