Survivor communities outside the known world

[DiscoMonster]

Hi, ParanormalAndroid, I'm sure that you are right that the tiny villages in Snowdonia and the Beacons could survive the initial outbreak. It's what happens after that that is the problem, especially in such a mild and troll/beast friendly climate as the British Isles.

I started writing a fan fiction about Year 0 that was set in Eyam in the Derbyshire hills.

Through a mage warning (and the collective memory of their self-imposed isolation during the Black Death) I wrote about Eyam as a survivor community. Thus, Eyam became a rallying point for the immune in the autumn and winter of Year 0. However, I realised I couldn't make the non-immune in the village survive long-term because there would be too many beasts, trolls and giants wandering the countryside and moving along the roads in such a densely populated country.

Eventually, the non-immune of Eyam would have been overwhelmed as the trolls and beasts found their way from the surrounding cities and towns; all it would take is for one beast to get through. In the end, I had the survivor community/small army trying to move from Eyam to Anglesey and the Isle of Man, whilst trying to protect the non-immune. The non-immune didn't make it and neither did many immune due to their being too many troll-filled urban centres to pass through.

In my head, the story did progress to the IOM, where similar survivor communities from Ireland, Wales, northern England and Scotland eventually cleared the island of rash grosslings, but not without dispute and betrayal. I did have the mage and the person who became the warrior leader of the island making plans to establish contact with Anglesey or cleanse and resettle the island. It was a bleak, depressing story though and never bothered to write up properly
 

[ParanormalAndroid]

Hi, ParanormalAndroid, I'm sure that you are right that the tiny villages in Snowdonia and the Beacons could survive the initial outbreak. It's what happens after that that is the problem, especially in such a mild and troll/beast friendly climate as the British Isles.

I started writing a fan fiction about Year 0 that was set in Eyam in the Derbyshire hills.

Through a mage warning (and the collective memory of their self-imposed isolation during the Black Death) I wrote about Eyam as a survivor community. Thus, Eyam became a rallying point for the immune in the autumn and winter of Year 0. However, I realised I couldn't make the non-immune in the village survive long-term because there would be too many beasts, trolls and giants wandering the countryside and moving along the roads in such a densely populated country.

Eventually, the non-immune of Eyam would have been overwhelmed as the trolls and beasts found their way from the surrounding cities and towns; all it would take is for one beast to get through. In the end, I had the survivor community/small army trying to move from Eyam to Anglesey and the Isle of Man, whilst trying to protect the non-immune. The non-immune didn't make it and neither did many immune due to their being too many troll-filled urban centres to pass through.

In my head, the story did progress to the IOM, where similar survivor communities from Ireland, Wales, northern England and Scotland eventually cleared the island of rash grosslings, but not without dispute and betrayal. I did have the mage and the person who became the warrior leader of the island making plans to establish contact with Anglesey or cleanse and resettle the island. It was a bleak, depressing story though and never bothered to write up properly
 

The detail's good, although I've never been to Eyam so I wouldn't know it. As we've seen already though, the beasts seem to prefer sheltered, urban areas to nest in. Snowdonia especially isn't exactly a hotspot for cities or even towns, so there would naturally be fewer beasts. It's possible to kill them too, as we've seen in the library/house- a group of determined people with good enough weapons could easily kill the few beasts that came wandering their way.
Of course, if you wanted to be really bleak, all the non-immune people could just be killed.
I feel like we could put a lot of thought into this..

[DiscoMonster]

"I feel like we could put a lot of thought into this..."

I frequently do. Self-reliant farming communities would be the longest-lived. Attracting the immune might be one way to make such communities survive in Wales. Eyam wouldn't survive as there are too many large metropolitan areas nearby.

[ParanormalAndroid]

"I feel like we could put a lot of thought into this..."

I frequently do. Self-reliant farming communities would be the longest-lived. Attracting the immune might be one way to make such communities survive in Wales. Eyam wouldn't survive as there are too many large metropolitan areas nearby.

Of course, one of the best places to be would be somewhere like the Isle of Lewis, up in the north of Scotland. One of my friends lives there. Sparsely populated, close-knit community, little access to the mainland, etc..

[DiscoMonster]

"Of course, one of the best places to be would be somewhere like the Isle of Lewis, up in the north of Scotland. One of my friends lives there. Sparsely populated, close-knit community, little access to the mainland, etc.."

Yep! Islands are good. My family has a holiday home and relatives out in the Finnish Archipelago. It takes four ferries to get there from the mainland. If something like the rash ever happened, there would be food, water and fuel until the next summer. Old, wood-heated stoves would be brought back into use and most houses can be heated by the wood of the plentiful forest. Wells that can provide drinking water are commonplace. Vegetables and staple crops could be grown, fish caught and the locals would start planning and building for the years ahead. The island's hunting club and the ability of the locals to work together would be invaluable. But that's the positive scenario.

Sadly, I think if it was The Rash, we'd be relying on a harsh early winter to kill off beasts that can cross from island to island. It would be difficult to stop them otherwise. The other problem would be other people with holiday homes attempting to escape the spread of The Rash by boat but probably bringing it with them. Also, those with holiday homes would be reliant on locals to feed them after their tinned food ran out. I'd expect ugly conflict. Another problem would be a lack of essential supplies like bullets, spare parts for engines, oil, raw materials for making new products, etc. Hazardous trips to the troll-infested mainland would become a necessity.

A terrifying scenario.

[urbicande]

Also, those with holiday homes would be reliant on locals to feed them after their tinned food ran out. I'd expect ugly conflict.

I'd expect the locals to shoot anyone who tried to come in after a certain point. 

[DiscoMonster]

I'd expect the locals to shoot anyone who tried to come in after a certain point.

Many of the locals have good relationships with those who own holiday homes and visit several times a year. They'd probably see if they were sick first and try to quarantine them, which is why stopping The Rash would be hard. Also, holiday home owners usually have relatives in the area or similar strong links. And despite the tight-knit and initial stand-offish nature of such communities, the locals are welcoming and would try to see if the person holds any benefits for the community. The problems will come when disputes over land, fishing rights and farming arise. I suspect that the current everyman's right might see a reduction in its extent.

Bartering would take over from the exchange of cash and as the former temporary residents rarely have the resources locals have, they'd be in a very weak position. When the potatoes are harvested they'll be up at the crack of dawn walking behind tractors or a horse and plough and doing that back-breaking fieldwork manually to pay off debts. 

Plus, trees would have to be cut down, additional land cleared and ploughed, fishing nets mended, clothes would have to be mended and fixed. Not easy without the correct tools. Old-fashioned hand-cranked washing machines would be taken out of barns and similar tools would become very valuable. The few horses and farm animals on the island would find themselves hooked up to sleighs and ploughs. I suspect the locals would try and find any cattle and sheep they could so as to form breeding herds as there used to be on the island, whoever held such prized animals or herds could become very powerful.

There would be a change in social dynamics and culture. The basis for an epic story in itself.

[ParanormalAndroid]

Of course, if there was mob hysteria over the sickness when someone got chickenpox or simply scratched their arm a bit too much, the community would start to fall apart anyway.

[DiscoMonster]

"Of course, if there was mob hysteria over the sickness when someone got chickenpox or simply scratched their arm a bit too much, the community would start to fall apart anyway."

Nah! They know their diseases in those communities. They wouldn't panic. Besides, I imagine them: "You've got The Rash, you say? Well that's no reason not to go to school. Now go on and don't forget to moor the boat properly when you get to the other side. And if the sea does start to ice up today, make sure you get over to this side before nightfall. We don't want you stuck on the school island for a week like you were last year." (This actually used to happen my children's grandfather)

[FinnishViking]

"Of course, if there was mob hysteria over the sickness when someone got chickenpox or simply scratched their arm a bit too much, the community would start to fall apart anyway."

Nah! They know their diseases in those communities. They wouldn't panic. Besides, I imagine them: "You've got The Rash, you say? Well that's no reason not to go to school. Now go on and don't forget to moor the boat properly when you get to the other side. And if the sea does start to ice up today, make sure you get over to this side before nightfall. We don't want you stuck on the school island for a week like you were last year." (This actually used to happen my children's grandfather)

*shrug* People might not take the first signs of rash very seriously especially when the news coverage seems to be biassed to downplay the effects of the rash. This would very likely lead to quite a few getting the rash and when the trolls start popping out all bets are off. Well really the problem might be that they wouldn't really know for certain who has caught the rash and since people do really do stupid stuff under pressure and when panicking it might lead to witch hunts against anyone suspected, but then again the community might come closer together to tend for the sick.

I guess the biggest thing is going to be if they manage to connect the rash with the trolls and the beasts because if they do they will have far easier time with guarantening, but if they don't some of the sick are going to trollify at some moment and if it gets loose on the civilians it's really a good game at that point.

[urbicande]

I guess the biggest thing is going to be if they manage to connect the rash with the trolls and the beasts because if they do they will have far easier time with guarantening, but if they don't some of the sick are going to trollify at some moment and if it gets loose on the civilians it's really a good game at that point.

Yeah, pretty much anywhere with the Rash is gonna have problems.

[Void Slayer]

The biggest danger is not human trolls, but smaller beasts.  If you do not have cold water, cats/mages and methods to defend against them they can quickly spread disease to non immune.

I suspect this is why immunity rates are so high in the exposed nations but still around 50%, as non immune died off herd immunity to beast infections in the early years allowed a lot of people to live even with no immunity before effective counters were developed.

[Caledfwlch]

Spending an hour stuck in traffic got me to thinking on this exact subject in depth in regards to jolly old blighty. I even made an account speficially to post it cos dammit I spent too much time thinking on this.

I think overall the UK would weather the storm fairly well.

In regards to England. The southeast would be gone in its entirety. London would just be essentially one gigantic troll monster thing, going there would be like tearing off all your skin and jumping into shark infested waters. The major cities such as Leeds, Manchester, etc would also be dead probably with the exception of York which with its walls mostly intact and non-prohibitive size should be able to seal itself up and survive to some extent. So long as it isn't swamped by refugees in the early days it should be equipped to survive the trolls in the new world. The real question is how trolls and other virus spawned creatures would react to modern Englands notoriously extreme weather shifts. If high heat is universally good for trolls then the whole of England may wind up ravaged.

Wales would probably do pretty well. Southern Wales (especially Cardiff) would be troll country but central and northern Wales would be pretty safe due to a winning combo of difficult terrain, spread out sparse population and frequent cold spells.
Anglesey would assuming the people there were smart enough to shut the bridges quickly, be a very safe area. Probably one of the safest areas in the British isles. Its considerable size creating a lot of room for growth.

Scotland would most likely survive very well. It's not a well known country or popular destination with refugees and the like. Though Edinburgh will no doubt go the way of London and Cardiff (more due to actions of the Scottish government than anything else) the rest of the country will probably endure rather well. There'll be a population shift into the north no doubt but overall it's a good place to be as the virus is going to be concentrated in that seething mass of cosmopolitan humanity that is Englands south east, on the other side of the country to Scotland.

Ireland would probably have a fair bit of trouble. The country is essentially flatlands surrounded by mountains near the coast. While not 100% accurate we're going with their general geographical situation. Their only real geographic win is that they're mostly shielded from the continent by the rest of the British Isles meaning refugees will probably stop going there very quickly once the EU and organised transport routes begin to crumble thus eliminating new infection vectors. I still suspect however that much of Irelands surviving population will move to the western coast with its more unforgiving terrain and the cold winds coming off the Atlantic serving to help alleviate the troll issue.

Then of course we have the various islands. I would bet good money that the channel islands would be swamped with refugees fleeing the continent and thus be infected very quickly with no hope of control. Resulting in them being gone. Others especially those around Scotland such as the Shetlands and those in the Irish sea would probably survive and harbour considerable non-immune populations (in regards to proportion of their population)

All in all I would expect the total surviving population to be something a tad more substantial than that of the scandinavian countries primarily due to having more people to begin with and substantial agricultural sectors in the areas most likely to survive.
Somewhere between quarter of a million and one million people.
The main threats would be refugees from the continent seeking relative safety and bringing the virus with them. Once the southeast was utterly ruined however that problem would be somewhat resolved as the overwhelming majority of these refugees would get off their boats only to be eaten by trolls formed from the last group of refugees.


I could go on with my personal favourite subject of politics and how I theorise the politics of the UK would go. But that would probably be a bit much.

[Snommelp]

The biggest strike against the UK is this: they're shown as Silent in the map made by Minna. Granted, a large section is covered by the map key, but one doesn't tend to put a map key over inhabited areas. If there are any survivor communities at all, they are incredibly small and have made zero attempt at contacting the outside world.

[Caledfwlch]

The biggest strike against the UK is this: they're shown as Silent in the map made by Minna. Granted, a large section is covered by the map key, but one doesn't tend to put a map key over inhabited areas. If there are any survivor communities at all, they are incredibly small and have made zero attempt at contacting the outside world.

True that.
But then lets face it, Minna probably hasn't thought much on the subject of survivor groups outside Scandinavia.
Those sea routes we see on that world map pass clean through the Shetlands. So either she never thought about the possibility of survivors there or she just went "Probably killed by refugees trying to get to Iceland". Also could have gone "not relevant to my interests, not worth the effort"

As for the Scots. There's the obvious language barrier (I mean come on they can barely speak English) along with their generally insular and mistrusting nature which would explain why they've not bothered contacting anyone. Plus the lack of serious port facilities in northern Scotland meaning there would be few ships to even use to try and make contact with. You've essentially got Kirkwall in the Orkney islands and thats it. Every other port is further south and its ships less interested in roaming north. On top of all this. Scotlands population is tiny and most concentrated in its south. So even assuming the survivors relocated to the north the population density would still be tiny so any Icelandic ships that poked their nose in the area would probably not find any signs of life without going to shore and looking, which lets face it they won't.

The English, Welsh and Irish would have other things to focus on.