Survivor communities outside the known world

[Tojin]

I'm thinking that my native Arizona would be a good place for some communities to survive. Obviously, Tucson and most of Phoenix would be doomed, but tiny places in the middle of the desert like Quartzsite would be great places to live, at least in terms of troll repelling. Although, Quartzsite does tend to attract somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million people every fall/winter, which is when the Rash outbreak occurs, so maybe it's not actually that great.

As for why I said most of Phoenix, and not all, Phoenix is one of the largest cities in the United States in terms of land area. While downtown is probably screwed, places like Ahwatukee, which is isolated from the rest of the city by a mountain range, might have a decent chance. Failing that, the survivors might flee to the Gila River Indian Reservation, which is both very isolated and close to Phoenix, considering that its border with Phoenix is probably a 2-minute drive from my house.

Finally, there are at least a few suburbs that are just randomly out in the middle of the desert down towards Tucson. If a wall got put up around them, I think those suburbs might be decent places to live in. I saw that a few pages back, someone came up with a sort of return to the Wild West era, with little towns sprinkled all across the desert. Maybe one of those is a fortified suburb? (Preferably Ahwatukee, since, y'know, that's where I live. =P)

[Possib]

Failing that, the survivors might flee to the Gila River Indian Reservation, which is both very isolated and close to Phoenix, considering that its border with Phoenix is probably a 2-minute drive from my house.

Its not isolated if its a two minute drive from the suburbs of Phoenix. Everywhere in Arizona (and the rest of the west) that can't be closed off by bombing out a mountain road is done for

[Tojin]

Its not isolated if its a two minute drive from the suburbs of Phoenix. Everywhere in Arizona (and the rest of the west) that can't be closed off by bombing out a mountain road is done for

Fair point. I probably should have explained a bit more; while the border of the reservation is really close by, the bits of it where people actually live has nothing nearby for miles around, which should at least help them survive a bit longer than others, if not make a little community in the middle of the desert.

[Redheaded Beijinger]

So, I don't know if this has been posted already, but I spent pretty much my entire afternoon run thinking about this.  I expect that the largest place, outside of Iceland, to have survived could be the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido.  (Indeed, by population Hokkaido could be the largest concentration of people left alive in the world.)  We already know from the introduction that Japan was the second country (after Iceland) to close its boarders, and Hokkaido is only connected to Honshu (the biggest island) by a single tunnel.  The climate is also quite suitable: cool summers, icy winters, and the northern half of the island is basically tundra. Not to mention this is the historic homeland of the Ainu, who, I imagine, would be not unlike Finns in their aptitude for magic.

[JacobThomsen]

So, I don't know if this has been posted already, but I spent pretty much my entire afternoon run thinking about this.  I expect that the largest place, outside of Iceland, to have survived could be the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido.  (Indeed, by population Hokkaido could be the largest concentration of people left alive in the world.)  We already know from the introduction that Japan was the second country (after Iceland) to close its boarders, and Hokkaido is only connected to Honshu (the biggest island) by a single tunnel.  The climate is also quite suitable: cool summers, icy winters, and the northern half of the island is basically tundra. Not to mention this is the historic homeland of the Ainu, who, I imagine, would be not unlike Finns in their aptitude for magic.

Seems possible, I've also thought of the many islands of Japan as a possible safe haven, and they seem to have the cold weather on their side. But if the islands population where to survive the rash, the local government would have to succeed in keeping out all the other refugees from the rest of Japan trying to enter through the tunnel, and in keeping the rash infected swimming mammals out from their large coast at the same time. It would be hard but not impossible, though I would bet on some of the smaller but more isolated Japanese island as a possible safe haven in year 0.

Oh and Redheaded Beijinger, have you remembered to introduce yourself over at the official  Introduction Thread over at the General Discussion Board?

[Redheaded Beijinger]

Nope,  . I introduced myself in the language introduction thread and then got distracted... I'll do that right after this post!

I think you make a good point-- I just don't see a Japanese government enforcing as ruthless a quarantine policy against Japanese refugees as Iceland was able to against foreigners. Longer-term, they'd also have to dynamite the tunnel shut to keep out trolls, which they'd be loath to do. And, thematically speaking, having an island of 5 million make it through the apocolypse intact seems not to jive with the SSSS world, somehow.  At the very least, preserving a society of that size through year 90, what with famine and social unrest, seems difficult.

What seems much more likely would be the twin islands of Rebun (pop. 3,000) and Rishiri (pop. 5,500) off the northwest coast of Hokkaido, as the new site of Japan proper. These islands together have 8,000 people, not a single large city. They are only connected to Hokkaido by a single ferry line from Rishiri to Otaru- there are no ferries from Rebun directly to Hokkaido. If Denmark could save Bornholm, then these islands, in the infamously hard to traverse Sea of Japan, could make it through.

Sea Beasts I think would not pose much of a problem. The Japanese do have a huge advantage in the Self-Defense Force, which is one of the most advanced militaries in the world (though legally not a military), and is geared fully towards naval defense of islands.

As for Hokkaido itself, it has much of the same advantages as Sweden- cold enough for cleansing, mountainous enough for defense, enough developed technology for both. I imagine that there would be pockets of surviving communities in northern Hokkaido, and, over time, they could probably link up significant chunks of them, making post-apocalypse Japan not unlike Denmark and Sweden put together.

Expect to see even more lucky waving cats, kitty ears, and cat cafés than you already do...  

The romantic in me wants to imagine that, after Japan closed its boarders, the former Kingdom of the Rykuyus declared independence and pulled through.

They do have the advantage of
being home to enormous American and JSDF bases-- if the military went along with it, they could seal themselves off from the outside world forever, and would see a revitalization of the Rykuyuan language and religion-- both of which are distinct from Yamamoto Japanese, and neither of which died off fully. Unlike the Yamamoto, I think the Okinawans would be much more willing to believe in spirits and magic, especially since a sizeable portion of them already do. Continuing my analogy here, it would be not unlike

 It would be too warm for cleansing, but, aside from Rebun and Rishiki, this seems to be the place (in Japan, at least) with the greatest possibility of never getting the rash sickness in the first place.

[ruth]

This is pretty old now (more than two years, what!?), but given Japan and Hokkaidō being mention again, I thought I'd repost it. Certainly it can seem out of place for an area as large as Hokkaidō to survive in a post-apocalyptic setting, but in my opinion, it's all about how you frame it. I gave it a bit of a darker theme, which I think suits the rather grim setting.

SSSS · 日本 by ruthszulc, on Flickr

here's my take on japan! keep in mind this is just one way it might pan out, and i've been somewhat harsher than most as far as population and cleansed land are concerned for the sake of a different kind of story. either way, feedback and critique is definitely appreciated!

—

it would be easy to see the statistics and think that japan, among all the nations to survive the rash, is among the more fortunate. while less than 2% of their population has survived the ravages of the deadliest disease that has ever struck humankind (to say nothing of other mammals), the large majority of japan's northern island, hokkaidō, has remained pristine and untouched by the hideous monsters created by the rash. but scratch deeper than surface level and darker truths emerge of the survival of the country.

it begins with the system of government. while the nation of japan before the fall ranked among the world's most prominent democracies, the people who live on its soil today are by no means free. there are some vague gestures at the system, of course; it is hard to revoke a right that has already been granted, after all, but the people's advisory council is widely understood to be powerless compared to the real source of power: the daimyō, and above all the shōgun.

japan was the first nation to seal off its borders after news of the rash became public. japan soon found, though, that even as they escaped the first pass of rapidly escalating chaos of the disease, their problems would not be solved with this unilateral act. the most pressing, and most dire situation, was the state of their food supply. on a caloric basis, japan was roughly 40% self-sufficient. and as the months dragged on, even with brutal rationing, millions began the slow, agonizing process of starvation. but this, the japanese would soon find, would be the most merciful part of the long dark period of their nation.

in march 2015, with the nation in the throes of the greatest famine in its history, dozens of whaling vessels left port, intent on bringing back as much as they could carry, to feed the nation with whatever they could. what they encountered in the open sea, however, were not whales but something entirely different. though one was brought on board to attempt to identify it, it was quickly determined that the mutated, deformed creatures were simply not edible. starving, isolated, and entering a desperate stage of disconnection from reality, the whalers did not make the connection between the deformed whales and the rash that had covered the planet in its entirety. the sailor generally identified as japanese patient zero (JP0) visited tokyo four days later, and the inevitable fall began.

by the time the national government realized what had happened, establishing a quarantine cordon around tokyo was impossible. hundreds of thousands of people were dying every day, if not from the rash illness, then from the famine that became even more entrenched as communication and transportation of food between different areas became impossible. it grew so desperate that the governor of the most isolated northern prefecture, hokkaidō, shut down all traffic into the province and established a strict quarantine zone in the densely-populated capital, sapporo, and the southern port town hakodate, and not a moment too soon: though isolated cases would crop up in the countryside, the most severe outbreaks were held to sapporo and hakodate.

however, the aftereffects of this absolute seclusion, within the boundaries of the two quarantine zones, were nothing short of disastrous. cut off from all outside food, and with the self-defence force soldiers shooting any attempting to escape, more than two million died in what would later come to be known as the "sacrifice zones." the government ordered the total razing of sapporo and hakodate, and though they likely saved the rest of the island from infection, their tenuous authority crumbled as the populace became aware of the scorched-earth techniques used. an alternative provisional government based in asahikawa, supported by a large contingent of disgruntled SDF soldiers and—most importantly—makiko sen, a descendant of emperor taishō and distant member of the royal family, organized a largely bloodless coup, declaring sen empress and assuming responsibility of what is, for all they know, the last remaining safe area on earth.

having the legitimacy of someone on the chrysanthemum throne is an immense psychological boost for a population desperately needing something to cling to, and through this the new provisional government of asahikawa is granted sweeping powers to allow it to begin the slow process of reorganizing japan to survive and sustain itself. however, the immense centralized power of the new government starts to show signs of totalitarianism. armed with the impeccable credentials of restoring the monarchy, few are able to stand in its way as rights and freedoms are slowly rolled back to make way for aggressive de-industrialization, and a return to immense investment in agriculture. those with money and power are able to consolidate it, and those without slide inexorably into what is really a glorified neo-feudal society. it takes some time, but eventually even the government comes clean, adopting the archaic terms of medieval japan to describe their new state. the military junta is headed by the seii taishōgun, the commander of the japanese self-defence force and overlord of the ten daimyō, who each rule over a fief contiguous with the old pre-meiji provinces.

though much of the technology of the modern world remains, many of the ideas have been cast aside to make way for the new order. the nation has returned to the old policy of 鎖国論 sakokuron, or "isolation doctrine," which prohibits any outsider from landing in japan and prohibits any citizen from leaving. with the abbreviation of the country to the northern island, with the exception of a small military base in mutsu, everyone beyond the tsugaru strait separating hokkaidō from honshū (the main island), is unwelcome in the empire of japan. a small class of military nobility known as bushi or samurai enforce the social contract, swearing loyalty to a daimyō. while the weapon of a samurai today is a rifle rather than a longsword, there are many eerie parallels with the japan of hundreds of years ago, and the idea that all people are equal has long since given way to the notion that everyone has a given place in society. if you're one of the common folk in year 90, it probably isn't a great living. but the harsh, stark decisions made by the asahi shōgunate have also made japan one of the safest havens in the world from the rash.

[Redheaded Beijinger]

Oh I'm so glad you made this! It's really cool, and the map is beautiful!  And it does make a lot of sense. Does having immunity play into the caste system at all?  As in, the new samurai families are so because they have the immune gene, which is interpreted as the favor of the gods?
 
I'm guessing that for the samurai and noble castes, there is electricity, telephones, etc, but that there's nothing for the other castes.  I suppose, too, that the idea of ritual cleanliness/uncleanliness that pervaded feudal Japan would come back with a vengeance.

One thing is, those two islands to the East are today under the control of Russia... though post-fall Japan, as by far the most populous country in the world, with plenty of well-preserved technology to boot I'd be curious to see what happened in Eastern Russia and the cost of Alaska. It seems to me like that corner of the world, northernmost East Asia plus the northernmost part of North America, would be another area of "high" survival, like the Known World of northern Europe, being, as it is, a frigid, sparsely populated archipelago.

[finndutchican]

Finally, there are at least a few suburbs that are just randomly out in the middle of the desert down towards Tucson. If a wall got put up around them, I think those suburbs might be decent places to live in. I saw that a few pages back, someone came up with a sort of return to the Wild West era, with little towns sprinkled all across the desert. Maybe one of those is a fortified suburb? (Preferably Ahwatukee, since, y'know, that's where I live. =P)

I've been to Kitt Peak a few times, and I could definitely see some of the mountains like that working as little islands of humanity.  Especially since the weather gets cooler and more things grow up near the tops of the peaks....it's weird going from sweltering to wearing a jacket that fast.

Supplies would be the bigger issue there, since I dunno how much farming you could do on a mountain peak in the Sonora desert.

[Róisín]

Not impossible, you'd just have to eschew broadacre agriculture in favour of the techniques used by the original people who lived there. Pocket gardens with the soil carried up to hollows in the peaks, nightsoil and animal manure fertilisers, water cisterns, Three Sisters gardens down on the flatter bits, a lot of foraging and hunting. And fewer people, though the Illness, trolls and beasts might take care of that.

[ClockworkDawn]

Hello! Newbie here!

Just an idea, but what about Vancouver Island? Though it is pretty close to both British Columbia and Washington.

[JacobThomsen]

Hello! Newbie here!

Just an idea, but what about Vancouver Island? Though it is pretty close to both British Columbia and Washington.

Maybe, its north enough to have the weather on its side, and the inner parts of the island seems pretty isolated.

Oh and ClockworkDawn why don't you introduce yourself at the introduction thread over on General Discussions

[ClockworkDawn]

Maybe, its north enough to have the weather on its side, and the inner parts of the island seems pretty isolated.

Oh and ClockworkDawn why don't you introduce yourself at the interdiction thread over on General Discussions

Oh, sure thing!

[OwlsG0]

Has anyone discussed Greenland yet? I have a feeling that with the cold weather over there they might be able to handle the crisis better than other nations.

[SalmonKat]

Has anyone discussed Greenland yet? I have a feeling that with the cold weather over there they might be able to handle the crisis better than other nations.

I always figured there had to be a few people alive in Greenland, but I don't know enough about Greenland to speculate anything specific. It's big, cold, mostly empty. Probably there weren't even enough people infected to create much of a troll population but really I don't know.

I've also been looking at Russia a lot lately, thinking about what might happen there in the Rashpocalypse. It turns out they have a huge native population living around Siberia who traditionally live nomadically and herd reindeer. So far I have a very general concept of government, religion and society in post-rash Russia. I plan on working on it more but there's just so much research to do.