Survivor communities outside the known world

[Mayabird]

According to the big map of the world, the Netherlands are reflooded anyway.

[Prestwick]

According to the big map of the world, the Netherlands are reflooded anyway.

Sounds to me like they -or someone in Holland with the knowledge - opened the dykes in a last ditch attempt to defend what was left of the Netherlands by means of flooding.

Well it beat the Spanish way back when...

[Superdark33]

I had a discussion with a guy from Northern Ontario

Quotes:
Him:"We have wolves up north where I'm at, but they usually are smarter than to come that close to humans, Due to bullets"
Him:"Northern Ontario, where there's no population density to speak of, and everybody's got some kind of ranch rifle
Me:"Now im curious. How self sufficiant is it there?
"Well, you gotta drive into town once in a while to pick up staples like dry foods and wood and whatnot, but for the most part people are pretty good getting by on their own, We could cut down our own trees, but meh"

I say that place can have a sizable survivor community.

[Fimbulvarg]

I had a discussion with a guy from Northern Ontario

Quotes:
Him:"We have wolves up north where I'm at, but they usually are smarter than to come that close to humans, Due to bullets"
Him:"Northern Ontario, where there's no population density to speak of, and everybody's got some kind of ranch rifle
Me:"Now im curious. How self sufficiant is it there?
"Well, you gotta drive into town once in a while to pick up staples like dry foods and wood and whatnot, but for the most part people are pretty good getting by on their own, We could cut down our own trees, but meh"

I say that place can have a sizable survivor community.

He seems to have a lot of points that are regularly brought up in this thread. That being said I think it's adorable how he seems to believe that wolves can comprehend the nature of firearms

[Hrollo]

He seems to have a lot of points that are regularly brought up in this thread. That being said I think it's adorable how he seems to believe that wolves can comprehend the nature of firearms

Welllllll… wolves do show tendency to attack unarmed settlements and to avoid armed ones. This is of course because wolves in these respective areas are selected toward these kinds of behaviors by the presence/absence of firearms, rather than because of direct understanding but yeah, it turns out the "wolves don't attack man" thing is only mostly true in areas where people have the means to repel wolves.

[Sunflower]

I think it's adorable how he seems to believe that wolves can comprehend the nature of firearms

I imagine wolves could recognize the shape and maybe the smell (metal, oil, gunpowder) of firearms, possibly even the body language and pheromones of someone intent on shooting them, even if they don't actually understand how guns work. 

The great animal behaviorist Konrad Lorenz said crows and magpies could recognize people with guns as threats.  And I gather prairie dogs can do the same.  It may help that all these species are social animals, presumably sharing info within their flock/pack.

[Richard Weir]

Animals can learn fear by imitation. If (say) a wolf is brought up in a pack that nervously avoids humans (because too many humans in the area have guns) then it will learn that behaviour, even if it doesn't understand why it has to be afraid. Meanwhile, wolves living near unarmed settlements won't learn that humans are bad news and are more likely to be bolder.

If there are enough encounters with both armed and unarmed humans, then the older pack members can learn to tell the difference, and their cubs will also have a chance to learn the same. What cues they use (shape of gun, smell of gun, colour of clothing, even the body-language of the confident and aggressive hunter as opposed to the fear of the unarmed wanderer) we can't be sure - it may vary!

[Hrolfr_2]

Yeah, its pretty well certain Canids and Corvids can recognize "human too dangerous to bother, because armed" and "human, not dangerous, prey class."

Crows and Ravens are smart and have a healthy dislike to getting shot at. They are quite capable of distinguishing human with gun from one without. Ravens in particular are known to lead hunters, both wolves and humans, to kill-able prey. Patient scavengers.

Coyote in eastern Canada (Who have learned to hunt in packs since wolves were driven to extinction) are known to have killed (chased down, brought to bay and taken down, & partially eaten, by the forensic evidence) at least one ( to my certain knowledge, and I do not follow these things closely) person, a healthy young woman on a road in a rural area of Nova Scotia.

The locals were not terribly astounded at the news.

Where my sister lives in rural Ontario, you do not let any dog out alone (2 big dogs together are ok, they protect one anothers back.) after dark (to pee for instance) , and certainly no dogs under ~20kg off leash in the dark. You do and a coyote pack comes through and... no more pet doggy, and cats too regularly vanish.

Further, I've heard enough hunter's & other peoples anecdotes about meeting and being stalked by wolves out in western & northern Canada recently that the urban legend that "Wolves/Coyotes are afraid of humans" is an old wives tale that was probably true when every rural person shot them on-sight on the principal as being dangerous pests.

The surviving wolves gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.

These days you sometimes have to make the point clear you are likely tougher than they want to bother with, so carrying a bang-stick works wonders. My friend the hunter in eastern ontario had to convince Coyotes to leave his still warm deer carcass alone, as they didn't back off until he took the rifle off his back.  They FULLY understood the gesture & moved off far enough to be discreet and were yap-happy of the viscera he left behind for them.

Yes, they comprehended firearms just fine.

[Prestwick]

Crows and Ravens are smart and have a healthy dislike to getting shot at. They are quite capable of distinguishing human with gun from one without.

I can vouch for avian species being able to discern between gun toting humans and those who aren't. Pheasants for example tend to flee if you walk towards them with anything that looks like a gun. If you have your hands visible, they'll still keep their distance but won't be as worried about whether you're about to fill them with buckshot or not.

They still haven't made the connection between grown men slashing the undergrowth with sticks with being shot full of lead when they take flight however ;-)

[Cynic]

I can vouch for avian species being able to discern between gun toting humans and those who aren't. Pheasants for example tend to flee if you walk towards them with anything that looks like a gun. If you have your hands visible, they'll still keep their distance but won't be as worried about whether you're about to fill them with buckshot or not...

Ah, but is that something they learned or just that Pheasants born with an irrational fear of stick-like objects survived and so much better that now almost all of them have it? just by survival of the fittest, when it turned out stick-like objects is indeed more dangerous than almost anything else.

[Richard Weir]

Does it matter? Whether it is learning or recently evolved instinct, they differentiate.

[Prestwick]

If someone pointed something at me I'd sure run.

I ran away from a woman offering me free water once...

[Solokov]

I skimmed the thread, didn't see it covered.

I would have to say, Central California in the U.S. would probably survive initially. The mindset is very different from your stereotypical Californian, and there are plans in place among various people in the central portion of the state that during a breakdown of society the major route into and out of the central San Joaquin would be closed off through the use of heavy machinery and possibly even blasting the mountainsides to block the passes.

I'd also say the recent revelations about sunlight, particularly U.V. radiation killing the infection, and how the cleansing of various locations is done with fire would leave central Californians in a good position to survive. Unlike the "eco warriors" from the bay area and coast, central Californians understand how vital fire is to the ecology of the state (all the plants are adapted to a 4-7 year fire cycle) and would likely start a crusade to remove the infection in a cleansing fire and then set up portable UV lamps to bathe the area in a healthy glow, that and everyone has firearms.

Anyway between the agriculture in California, the mindset, and the knowledge of ecology (and the plans for civil unrest to let the rest of the state burn and block off the passes in) I'd say Central California would last a few years. Hard to say how long they might last after that though.

[Oskutin]

As UV-light is ionizing radiation it can damage DNA and kill the cell or cause genetic mutations.
So thats why using solarium or bathing in the sun too long may cause skin cancer.
Strong UV-lights are used in watertreatment plants to decontaminate and kill last remaining viruses and bacteria in the water.
And in the tank the UV chamber can kill the thin and scarce layer of few alive viruses.
But for the rash infected creatures, it won't help, as they have protecting layer of (dead)skin where killing the virus/bacteria/thing won't help.

Lot of the Californians would die in the pandemic and like 25% could survive it, but...
That's just the beginging, after that it will go much much more worse as infrastructure has collapsed and fuels, food, fertilizers, medicine and machinery starts to run out and trolls start to roam around the area. And remaining humans start to fight against each other for the remaining resources. Plus to that other diseases will also start causing a trouble...

[Haverberg]

I guess with this latest revelation of UV and sunlight (which shouldn't be a surprise, really) I could easily see Bedouin tribes surviving and areas of the middle east.