Author Topic: Books!  (Read 146443 times)

Dverghamrar

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Re: Books!
« Reply #210 on: March 13, 2016, 05:21:33 PM »
Make that three people. :) I've read Lovecraft before bed, but I think I've gotten used to reading horror before sleep since there are days where before bedtime is the only time I have to get any reading done. I don't recall it affecting my dreams as much, but perhaps I've gotten used to it. :)

Has anyone read The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison?
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Yuuago

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Re: Books!
« Reply #211 on: March 13, 2016, 05:26:33 PM »
Has anyone read The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison?

*_* I love TGE! It's such a charming novel. I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it, but somehow, it pushes my buttons juuuust right. Planning to do a re-read one of these days, though perhaps in paper copy... to make flipping to the character list easier.
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Dverghamrar

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Re: Books!
« Reply #212 on: March 13, 2016, 05:32:45 PM »
*_* I love TGE! It's such a charming novel. I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it, but somehow, it pushes my buttons juuuust right. Planning to do a re-read one of these days, though perhaps in paper copy... to make flipping to the character list easier.
Yes! :) And this one, I remember, was leaving me with such feel-good pleasant dreams about the world and characters while I was reading it right before bed. It's a comfort book. :) I know the criticisms had been about the realism, but I thought there was a healthy dose of darkness along with the light.
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Yuuago

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Re: Books!
« Reply #213 on: March 13, 2016, 05:41:50 PM »
Yes! :) And this one, I remember, was leaving me with such feel-good pleasant dreams about the world and characters while I was reading it right before bed. It's a comfort book. :) I know the criticisms had been about the realism, but I thought there was a healthy dose of darkness along with the light.

Ah, yeah, I know what you mean re: realism etc. And to that, I say... well, I don't always want realism in my comfort reading, so that's just fine with me. ;p Plus! As you mentioned, it isn't all coziness.
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Re: Books!
« Reply #214 on: March 13, 2016, 07:40:43 PM »
*JUMPING UP AND DOWN* I love TGE! :D Read it in two days and am planning to reread it soon. (Slower. Possibly on my phone on a bus, if I'm lucky enough to get a seat where I can stay plugged in.)
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cati

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Re: Books!
« Reply #215 on: March 13, 2016, 08:04:59 PM »
I read TGE earlier this year - never really became involved in fandom for it, but it is a charming book in lots of ways.
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Kiraly

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Re: Books!
« Reply #216 on: March 13, 2016, 08:39:38 PM »
YES, I LOVED The Goblin Emperor! It was a very strange reading experience though, because I was hooked on the story but the language made for slow going. It took me quite a while to figure out the naming/title rules and the formal vs. informal we/I thing. And then I got to the end of the book and found that handy section that explained all of those rules...oops. That's happened to me far too many times, I really should learn to start checking for those.

Edit: Okay, the number of times I've messed up a whole post because I started something with an italics tag and ended it with a bold tag...ugh.
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Re: Books!
« Reply #217 on: March 14, 2016, 10:01:41 AM »
YES, I LOVED The Goblin Emperor[/b]! It was a very strange reading experience though, because I was hooked on the story but the language made for slow going. It took me quite a while to figure out the naming/title rules and the formal vs. informal we/I thing. And then I got to the end of the book and found that handy section that explained all of those rules...oops. That's happened to me far too many times, I really should learn to start checking for those.

Hahaha... same. That's part of why I want to reread - I didn't pick up on as much of the political, social, or linguistic worldbuilding detail as I'd like.
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Vafhudr

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Re: Books!
« Reply #218 on: March 14, 2016, 11:09:55 AM »
You're only the second person I've encountered in my life who thinks that! The first was a baby-sitter who read it to a friend and I at bed time when we were very very young, and then got upset at us for refusing to sleep in our own beds after it. Still scares me too much to read alone at night; I've learned the hard way that even re-reading a story I know, that doesn't sound very frightening, is somehow still a bad idea.

You see the thing here is that I don't find Lovecraft scary in the slightest. To me he is a stunning failure has a horror writer. There is no suspense or tension in his stories at all. He is the written equivalent of a b-movie and he is very guilty of telling not showing. What I do like in his stories are some of his concepts - I love the idea of stunningly old civilizations rising and falling before humans ever saw the light of day.
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Hrollo

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Re: Books!
« Reply #219 on: March 14, 2016, 02:27:12 PM »
To be fair to Lovecraft, "show don't tell" just wasn't a thing when he was writing — this is a concept that largely emerged from writer workshops that started to appear during the cold war and were a (subtle) attempt to stir american writers away from what was perceived as communist style.

The whole idea that "show don't tell" is good style in a book, a media that works through language (as opposed to a movie, which is primarily visual) is thus rather arbitrary and much more recent than you'd think — but the fact that's it's constantly hammered as dogma in writer circles make it hard to appreciate books written from a different perspective.
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Vafhudr

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Re: Books!
« Reply #220 on: March 14, 2016, 02:59:10 PM »
For effect he relies almost entirely on piling up adjectives. Telling me something is horrible, inhumane, terrifying or an undescribable writhing mass of tendrils does not actually inspire that particular emotion in me. It's a waste of words. Pushed by workshop or not, it does not change the fact that it makes for rather boring writing and uninspiring reading. The medium is perhaps word, but the effect is upon my mental theater where I imagine the scene described. In that regard, it does not evoke much.   
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cati

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Re: Books!
« Reply #221 on: March 14, 2016, 05:15:11 PM »
For effect he relies almost entirely on piling up adjectives. Telling me something is horrible, inhumane, terrifying or an undescribable writhing mass of tendrils does not actually inspire that particular emotion in me.

See, telling myself this is exactly how I end up deciding to read his stuff before bed - I read plenty of old heavy flowery writing and I'm pretty used to the style, and to laughing at it when called for - and somehow it works some kind of magical scare-effect on me despite its ridiculous self. Doesn't make sense, but by now I've learnt through experience!
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Róisín

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Re: Books!
« Reply #222 on: March 14, 2016, 06:46:45 PM »
It's a different style or fashion of writing, as Cati says. Each country, each historical period, has its own style, sometimes more than one. Compare, say, Villon to Dumas to Huysmans to Dantec. Except for writing in French, you'd never find their styles similar. Or in English, say, Chaucer, Milton, Defoe, Wilkie Collins and Michael Moorcock.

Back when Lovecraft was writing, he was right at the end of a period when flowery language and adjective-heavy writing was just how it was done. A reader of the time would find his prose actually quite sparse; some contemporary commenters found his work numinous and scary precisely because he hinted and suggested rather than detailing the intricate corrugations of each tentacle! I rather like the style, done well, but my tastes are fairly broad because I've read a lot across the work of a number of eras, and struggled through a lot of books in their original languages.

And Rollo is correct about the style being discouraged in American English because of the politics, since that style was popular among Russian novelists. Whereas in British literature, it was edged out on the wave of post WW2 depression, anger and kitchen-sink 'realism'.
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Re: Books!
« Reply #223 on: March 14, 2016, 07:15:04 PM »
While I am a big Lovecraft fan, I do have to admit that Vafhudr has a point. I've always been fond of the "Books a Minute" summary of The Complete Works of H.P.Lovecraft from the old Rinkworks site (which doesn't appear to be around any more)...


The Complete Works of H.P.Lovecraft

Narrator: I will tell you about something horrific I witnessed.

(Narrator discusses MUNDANE experiences which supposedly lead up to something HORRIFIC.)

Narrator: We're almost at the horrific bit.

(Narrator talks about more stuff that might be SPOOKY if he'd only GET ON WITH IT.)

Narrator: We're very close now.

(Narrator draws it out MORE.)

Narrator: This time I swear we're just about at the horrific thing almost.

(Narrator FINALLY gets to the HORRIFIC thing which is HUGE and POWERFUL and EVIL and LAME)

THE END

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Vafhudr

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Re: Books!
« Reply #224 on: March 14, 2016, 08:39:46 PM »
Well I guess I should reformulate. It's not that Lovecraft is bad (there is infinitely worse than him), but that I find him soporific, which I chalk up to his writing style, and not scary, which I chalk up to the fact that I don't find many of his set ups particularly horrific - and when he tries, I can't help but imagine it as something from an episode of the Mystery Theater.

Like how am I suppose to take seriously a scenario where someone gets his head bitten off by degenerate inbreeding Dutch mole people?

If anything I prefer his more imaginative stuff, especially what I believe is called the Dream cycle - the ones with the Silver key and multiple planes. The Nameless City is another I like, but like I said, I like most of his stories that revolve around the unbelievably ancient civilizations.
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