Author Topic: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4  (Read 11056 times)

tehta

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2022, 04:08:21 AM »
Wouldn't it be weird for Tuuri to say that in almost any job, though? Civilians have bosses they have to obey, too. (But, yeah, given that only Mikkel has ever worked outside the military, the others might not even consider using anything but military discipline in the work place. And Mikkel does 'mutiny' as he sees fit, after first trying to collaborate with Sigrun and being overruled. Of course, later they do learn to work together.)

That said, the fact that Tuuri and Lalli can just 'quit' without much consequence means that 'military' might be a somewhat more flexible designation than it is in modern jobs.
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NightMareMage

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2022, 09:44:42 PM »
179-186
This cover is such a delight. No one looks like they’re doing a good job.

Lalli is also introduced to the Boots, which seem to be giving him some trouble in the beginning. I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable in such boots!
Any idea of what the boots are or what they are made from?

Interesting observation, Mikkel is not listed as military at all in his character box. I have all the time been thinking he is, among his other trades, also somehow affiliated with the Danish and / or Norwegian military. I suppose it’s because Torb says on p 181 that Sig and Mik will be “your superiors”. When I stop to think about it, this is not a military mission, but it works like it were. They even call Reynir a civilian, which seems to indicate they think of the team as not civilians. How’s this work?

Another response for military Mikkel is probably admiral Olsen and his mention of Mikkel having worked in the base. But of course there are civilian jobs too.
I think this could be something either forgotten about or added later. Or it could be a poor thought out and/or explained detail.

page 182: Mikkel feels entitled to physically grab somebody who obviously doesn't want to be touched, and force Lalli to shake hands with him. A lot of the comments seem to take it for granted that of course he's entitled to do this. Somewhat further down the comments I thought at first there were some people objecting to it -- but no, they're objecting to Sigrun's backslap, not to the forced handshake or to Mikkel's grabbing and holding on to Lalli. In fact, they seem to be praising it.

I didn't read all the comments, and don't know whether anyone did object, later on.
Honstly, I am more surprised that people are bothered by Sigrun's backslap at all. My guess is that Lalli is bothered by the backslap so the commenters were more bothered by that.

Anyway, we start this chapter with some world building. Honestly, when you think about the world in SSSS it’s not great, even beyond the plague and undead monsters. Like the fact that most Norwegians are illiterate. Even Sigrun, who by all indications is privileged. Then there is Iceland which at best neglects to teach history and at worst suppresses information. Sweden has blatant issues with poverty but this one is explored with the Västerström’s. The others come into play in one way or another but they are left, if memory serves, ultimately unexamined.

Page 181 is basically perfect but I can’t read it without thinking about an edit of the last panel. The one where Tuuri asks Sigrun, “You're so tall. How will boys kiss you?” and Sigrun says, “They can’t. They’re unworthy.” I don’t know if that brings it down or makes it better lol.

My understanding is that (irl) Danish is always difficult for Swedes and Norwegians to understand but Danes, depending on their dialect, may be able to understand Swedish and Norwegian.

So Lalli views Sigrun’s smack on the back and Emil’s fist to shoulder bump as hitting. This is due in no small part to his lack of social interaction. But I do wonder if part of his response is due to Tuuri (and possibly others) hitting him at times...

So does no one want to help the Danes retake their land? Does the Danish government not want help? Norwegians join the Cleaners sometimes and I think Mikkel worked with Norwegians in the past. It’s not like it would be unheard of.

But hey, Shouty Man is here! No one can hear their story grievances over him! And with Cattank we have met 7/8 of A1’s main characters./j

I must add that there is so much good characterization and interactions that character is just oozing out of the pages! This started before but it really picks up here and it is why I and (I believe) many of you love this story in spite of problems with it or it's creator.

NightMareMage

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2022, 11:22:10 PM »
187 - 193

The whole thing about Emil causing the food-candle mix up, I missed this on my own reading, I think it’s easy to forget.

Sigrun just covers for Emil without question, which is sweet but it could be because she or the whole team could get in trouble if they broke it, but if it was already broken, it’s not on them.

Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)

Page 190- It was said earlier that, “Emil joined the military for the wrong reasons,” but I have seen worse.

Why does Sigrun’s file say she can drive? Did someone ask here, even sometime in the past, and she said yes?

Page 192 panel 8. Do I think it was intended as foreshadowing? No. Does it read like foreshadowing? Yes.

Page 193. Did I ever mention the humor in SSSS? Because it is quite funny.

Also, I am impressed by others' guessing powers. Like “Bready” joining the team by crate. It’s a reasonable guess but I don’t think it’s an obvious one.

Suominoita

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2022, 06:03:34 AM »

187 - 193

Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)

Beats me. I personally find that loudness makes words less clear. Yelling or not.

Page 190- It was said earlier that, “Emil joined the military for the wrong reasons,” but I have seen worse.

Why does Sigrun’s file say she can drive? Did someone ask here, even sometime in the past, and she said yes?

Apparently. The whole "how hard can it be" certainly suggests this is on Sigrun's over-confidence, not that she ever drove anything (oh well never mind, Tuuri can do it, she is a mechanic and has at least some sort of driving experience, she just has much less in the way of confidence).

Page 192 panel 8. Do I think it was intended as foreshadowing? No. Does it read like foreshadowing? Yes.

The broken family picture in 189 though, a crack going trough Tuuri's eyes? I think that one was intentional, and the whole matter about  :onni: :'(


Page 193. Did I ever mention the humor in SSSS? Because it is quite funny.

Also, I am impressed by others' guessing powers. Like “Bready” joining the team by crate. It’s a reasonable guess but I don’t think it’s an obvious one.
Yes, the whole matter about Emil's face and not understanding spoken Danish. Well he apparently got something (wrongly) - "my face? did he call me ugly?" until he sees the bruise in the mirror. Too bad Mikkel didn't have a mirror to clarify his meaning sooner. We get nice little info pages about the Nordic languages mid-chapter. The picture about language trees has been seen elsewhere in discussions about languages, out of context.
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thorny

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2022, 08:41:37 AM »
Why do people think yelling helps people understand you? Speaking up can help if you were speaking softly but I don’t know how yelling would even make your words clearer. (With the obvious exception of the person you were speaking to was hard of hearing or deaf.)

Even if the person you're speaking to is hard of hearing: yelling probably won't help and may only be annoying. Speak moderately louder, yes: but often the important thing to do is to enunciate very clearly, and almost nobody can do that while yelling. (And if they're entirely deaf, yelling certainly won't help; though enunciating may, if they're reading lips.)


p190: reference in the comments to "Skippy's List of Things He's Not Allowed To Do Anymore" -- is this the genesis of the thing about the list of things Mikkel's not allowed to do anymore?


NightMareMage

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2022, 01:26:20 PM »
I tend to think of raising ones voice as a kind of yelling and I forgot that others do not. But yeah, actually yelling at HOH and deaf people probably won't help anything but raising your voice may.

Róisín

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2022, 04:48:46 AM »
Speaking as HOH, speaking louder may help a bit, speaking as clearly as possible while facing the HOH person so they can maybe lipread helps a lot.
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dmeck7755

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2022, 09:01:22 PM »
Ah Page 194.  I am unsure if a bridge that has been neglected for 90 would peel like that.  I would expect huge holes where the asphalt or concrete disintegrated...

Page 196...My favorite.. I just gush over this page.  A lot of comments about missing languages. The page would be huge if everything was included...

Page 197. Poor Lalli he gets car sick also...

Page 199 The beginning of Sigrun's story.  Someone made a comment that the feast all looked like the same building as the first prologue. (Maybe by comparing it to page 9).

Page 200 Love Sigrun's smack down :)

Page 202 no more bridge

Page 204 Lalli's dream place.  Lovely artwork here

Page 206 another beautiful art.  I do have a question.  The bottom panel the "ting" and the birdlike blue thing.  Any ideas? 

Page 208.  Blue bird again?  I still really cannot figure it out.  You also get the sense of foreboding on the bottom panel.






« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 09:12:24 PM by dmeck7755 »
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LooNEY_DAC

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2022, 01:07:39 AM »
Page 206 another beautiful art.  I do have a question.  The bottom panel the "ting" and the birdlike blue thing.  Any ideas? 

Page 208.  Blue bird again?  I still really cannot figure it out.  You also get the sense of foreboding on the bottom panel.
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Jitter

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2022, 05:36:58 PM »
Oh I had forgotten how good Chapter 4 is! The foreboding, the mystery of the Dream World, magic, Emil soothing Lalli’s sleep, humor, Tuuri and Emil both unhappy about sending Lalli out for the night. This chapter opens up so many of the themes in the future adventure!

Also it makes me sad that we never really learned much about the Dream World and especially the Dream Sea. What are the… inhabitants? Do they prey on all sleeping humans or just mages? What happens if a mage loses a battle? Apparently nothing good, based on this and the other underwater fight, but would it actually be lethal or do Lalli and Onni just think so?

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dmeck7755

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2022, 09:10:24 PM »
IT gives you the feeling of something big on the horizon.  I also like how Emil and Lalli are starting (Emil's concern and touching on 214)

Also, know what we know now.  Emil get his first hit of Muck :)

I love page 222 the art!
Fate gives all of us three teachers, three friends, three enemies, and three great loves in our lives. But these twelve are always disguised, and we never know which one is which until we've loved them, left them, or fought them.

~ Gregory David Roberts

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2022, 09:34:18 AM »
His first muck and his first useless climb in the Silent World (both happened also at Björköfjärden)
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Suominoita

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2022, 05:24:00 PM »
Oh I had forgotten how good Chapter 4 is! The foreboding, the mystery of the Dream World, magic, Emil soothing Lalli’s sleep, humor, Tuuri and Emil both unhappy about sending Lalli out for the night. This chapter opens up so many of the themes in the future adventure!

Also it makes me sad that we never really learned much about the Dream World and especially the Dream Sea. What are the… inhabitants? Do they prey on all sleeping humans or just mages? What happens if a mage loses a battle? Apparently nothing good, based on this and the other underwater fight, but would it actually be lethal or do Lalli and Onni just think so?


Well, I guess it's similar to losing your Luonto, except more mental than physical, getting very exhausted, possibly insomnia as well. Seeing as you lose that part of yourself. It would make you very vulnerable and very likely to die for real.

As for the blue bird -- why do I think of that old lullaby called Sininen uni (The blue dream). Anyway, suppose the Blue Bird guards dreams like the swan guards the dead?
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dmeck7755

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2022, 05:30:08 PM »


As for the blue bird -- why do I think of that old lullaby called Sininen uni (The blue dream). Anyway, suppose the Blue Bird guards dreams like the swan guards the dead?

I like that idea!! it would make for a good story
Fate gives all of us three teachers, three friends, three enemies, and three great loves in our lives. But these twelve are always disguised, and we never know which one is which until we've loved them, left them, or fought them.

~ Gregory David Roberts

dreki

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Re: Into Silence - Chapters 3 & 4
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2022, 05:39:05 PM »

Interesting observation, Mikkel is not listed as military at all in his character box. I have all the time been thinking he is, among his other trades, also somehow affiliated with the Danish and / or Norwegian military. I suppose it’s because Torb says on p 181 that Sig and Mik will be “your superiors”. When I stop to think about it, this is not a military mission, but it works like it were. They even call Reynir a civilian, which seems to indicate they think of the team as not civilians. How’s this work?

Another response for military Mikkel is probably admiral Olsen and his mention of Mikkel having worked in the base. But of course there are civilian jobs too.

Mikkel worked in the military a decade ago. He was fired right before the disastrous night that wiped out the Danish forces. 

I imagine a decade old position you were fired from isn't enough to keep on his character card - but he did go through military training.

187 - 193

The whole thing about Emil causing the food-candle mix up, I missed this on my own reading, I think it’s easy to forget.


I NEVER realized that's what was going on.  I was confused why it was shown.