Author Topic: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2  (Read 18812 times)

thorny

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #165 on: July 15, 2022, 09:20:09 AM »
I don't see how he couldn't have known he was risking his life. And didn't he risk it as a cleanser?

Do we know whether they talked him into it, or whether, like Sigrun, he enthusiastically volunteered?

I suspect that Emil, as he's presented when we first meet him, was unrealistically confident that he could handle anything that came at him.

-- whether they intended to rip him off about the books is another question. However, all the team members seem to have wound up with plenty of money after the books were sold.

I do think it's clear that they were far more willing to risk other people's lives than their own. However, the entire books scheme rested on at least some of the team members getting back alive; otherwise, how would they get the books?


tehta

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #166 on: July 15, 2022, 01:43:40 PM »
Although I usually write the Evil Planning Committee as Eeeeevil with a big Eee, that's partly for fun. I do acknowledge that other interpretations are valid, and that anyway it is implausible that they intended to send the team to their death with 100% certainty. (Of course, even a > 90% chance of Total Party Kill might still have been worth it, for an Evil Committee.. after all, they weren't risking anything except some free time.) And the mission was supposed to be safer than it turned out to be once the bridge collapsed. Still, they were definitely aware of significant risk, based on their discussions after the proposal was accepted. And sending Emil off without even acknowledging that risk seems quite cold to me. I know he's not immediate family, but their kids clearly love him and would be devastated if he died.

As for Emil himself, I think that he was aware of SOME danger, and would, as a member of the military, be more used to danger than e.g. me, but I agree that he was also over-confident. (As was Tuuri, of course... )
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NightMareMage

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #167 on: July 17, 2022, 02:26:53 PM »
For a follow up on a past post, I don’t think Torbjörn or Siv wanted Emil to die or anything like that. But they were part of the planning process where everyone there thought it was a good idea to vulnerable people and then Emil joined the crew. Anyway…

104-115

After having someone’s meal spilled on him, Emil dreams of food. Probably better food than he has had in some time.

Tuuri says that almost no one in Finland speaks Swedish, if that’s true, don’t they run into a convenient amount of people who speak at least one Scandinavian language A2?

Is Tuuri actually a messy eater or just lying to make Emil feel better? I think she is lying.   

Evidently, Siv is very bad at helping people with their emotional needs. She is trying though.

Do you think Torbjörn got an explanation for why Taru wanted to see his feet?

On the last panel on page 106, Torbjörn says, “we have some language barriers here,” while only himself with Emil and Lalli are in frame. Then on page 111, Tuuri and Taru say that Lalli will be working with Emil and Taru says she is sure they will get along.

Do we ever find out what Lalli’s definition of a weird person is?

Not to be grim but does what Tuuri says while boarding the train feel like foreshadowing of her fate?

Tuuri hits Lalli for staring at Emil. I really want to write this off as early characterization, and thus something that can be maybe kinda ignored, but I can’t get over the multitude of implications one can take from this moment.

If I recall correctly, writing out non-English languages gets rarer as the comic goes on.

I’m surprised that shipping Tuuri and Emil does not have a small following. I think they are one of the least common ships between any of the main characters.

Best I can tell, Emil’s mother died when he was young, and he rarely sees his father. The one caretaker we see of his is affectionate and very tolerant of him. So where did he get these insecurities? Maybe he was told the greatness of the Västerström name and his brain filled in the blanks.

tehta

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #168 on: July 17, 2022, 04:14:18 PM »
Yes, Tuuri hitting Lalli, and then a little later telling a guard to manhandle him, is disturbing to me as well. As are some of her statements about him later, like when he throws the soup. But I do agree with her later statement that Lalli calls things weird when he doesn't understand them, which leads me to suspect that he considers pretty much everyone weird. Including Emil, at least some of the time.

Emil/Tuuri is popular in the comments for quite a bit, competing with Emil/Lalli! But then Tuuri and Emil stop interacting, she goes all google at Sigrun, and eventually gets a lot more time with Reynir than anyone else.

As for Emil's insecurities, well, I think that being rejected or even just ignored by one's parent(s) could give a person a complex, even if one were provided with nannies and tutors who were paid to be supportive. When we meet him, it seems that the only people who want him around are his baby cousins: Siv and Torb are a bit dismissive, and his dad never even checks in. Minna says he wasn't popular in school or at the Cleansers' either.
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lwise

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2022, 04:38:02 PM »
Yes, Tuuri hitting Lalli, and then a little later telling a guard to manhandle him, is disturbing to me as well.

She also kicked him with both feet to get his attention on page 90.

Suominoita

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #170 on: July 18, 2022, 10:19:33 AM »
Adult cats meow only to humans. Meowing is natural communication only for young kittens to their mom.

Interesting. Same could be said about a dog's bark. There's also the noticeable matter about size: The smaller the dog the more they bark. The big ones don't have to bother, smaller dogs bark just so people don't step on them.
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NightMareMage

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #171 on: July 20, 2022, 10:20:49 PM »
In general, however, I can't stop thinking about 'the heart of Mora'. Who lives there? What do they do for work? It looks like rather diverse jobs like Siv's and Torb's take place outside (they can't be quarantining when they go to work!), and overall 'outer Mora' seems like a pretty sophisticated place. Maybe that's where Sweden's technological industry is located?
Governmental work and/or super rich?

Yes, they likely are ripping off Emil seeing as they're making the deal with Tuuri and not him... Emil's occupation as cleanser apparently voided all the life insurance policies he had, if any and presumably going to the Silent Lands would do so as well so at least that leaves out one way they can use Emil to make cash...
Alternatively, they could just not respect him or his intelligence.

116 - 126
Ah, yes Emil and his bag full of explosives. Was he allowed to take it from the Cleansers? Did he effectively steal them, even by accident? Was that an oversight by the Cleansers? They don’t seem to be the tightness run ship.

On page 124, “That’s my Number! What are they going to do to me?” I do want to make a joke but feel really bad for him. He is just being dragged along and is very confused.

Pages 125-126, we were told a bit about the differences between Finland and Sweden, the lack of electricity in Finland, but Lalli’s interaction with the moving walkway is the first time we are shown. Unless I already forgot something from the past pages.

Honestly, Lalli not knowing what a horse is may make sense. Mammals (stans cats) can be infected so domestic animals could be less common. On his A1 character profile, it says he is not well educated, Tuuri may just know what a horse is from books. And if you know what a moose is but not a horse, calling a horse a moose is not the most out there thing to do.

127 - 141
I think page 127 is the first time I could say the panel layout was bad. I think there were 1 or 2 times thus far that I thought the layout was great that I did not mention. Most of the pages are good but this one is confusing. I think she did something similar in a Redtail’s Dream but with arrows and a recall in the “bunny comic” doing something similar but the layout worked really well. [Note: Yes, the bunny comic is bad but I am talking about panel layout.]

Aha! On page 128, Tuuri implies that horses are uncommon in Finland (or at least the places she has been before).

Our first peek at the Hotakainen’s backstory. Fittingly ominous and does not tell too much at once.

I talked about the fat jokes before, so I will not comment on it here. But if memory serves, it’s that last one in A1. I have my doubts on that but we will see.

When Tuuri tells the kids that one of them is adopted, are the boys looking at Anna or is Håkan and her looking at Sune? (This is rhetorical, I do not think there is a true answer.)

I find the comment from Tuuri on not seeing kids in a long time interesting. I don't think the Västerström children are much younger than she was when she became an apprentice in the military and Lalli is two years younger then she is.

I wonder if Emil’s mother would have made sure he got a proper education. Or a least a better one.

Did they need Siv to leave her job? It was Torbjörn's idea to do all this and so him quitting makes sense. Either Torbjörn and Siv could look after their kids while the other does the work and if they don’t want to take care of their own children, Siv could still be making some money at her job. 

Suominoita

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #172 on: July 21, 2022, 02:05:26 AM »
Governmental work and/or super rich?
Alternatively, they could just not respect him or his intelligence.

116 - 126
A
Did they need Siv to leave her job? It was Torbjörn's idea to do all this and so him quitting makes sense. Either Torbjörn and Siv could look after their kids while the other does the work and if they don’t want to take care of their own children, Siv could still be making some money at her job.

Well, Siv is working on finding a cure for the Disease and Torbjörn didn't much like his job anyway. So I figure he should be the one who quits and looks after the kids. It will at least save whatever they'd need to pay for a sitter to look after the "changelings". It may actually be more beneficial than him working if they pay the sitter more than he earns. Maybe start a hair salon? The kids would love it.
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wavewright62

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2022, 04:00:11 PM »
Arguably, Lalli's dorm room in Keuruu had electricity - it looked like he came home from his shift while it was still dark, and he read Tuuri's note inside a lit room?  Could just be an inconsistency.
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tehta

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2022, 04:42:23 PM »
Hey, you're right! On page 70 there are lights all over the base, and they seem to be connected by wires! So probably electric! (I was going to suggest... gas, I guess?)

I am also guessing that organizing the expedition took a lot of time and effort, so Torb couldn't do that AND childcare all alone.

And regarding Keuruu and children: I think Minna has also said that there weren't any on the base. So maybe Tuuri and Lalli were allowed to start work extra early, to be closer to their caregiver. Or maybe kids, even apprenticed kids, live and train outside the military base, and Tuuri hasn't felt like visiting that part of town (bad memories?)
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Suominoita

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #175 on: July 22, 2022, 11:08:05 AM »

And regarding Keuruu and children: I think Minna has also said that there weren't any on the base. So maybe Tuuri and Lalli were allowed to start work extra early, to be closer to their caregiver. Or maybe kids, even apprenticed kids, live and train outside the military base, and Tuuri hasn't felt like visiting that part of town (bad memories?)

Well, they were starting early, at least Lalli was. Presumably it was partly because Ensi had began already. Tuuri had her studies - maybe Keuruu had Swedish studies while their island school in Saimaa didn't. So anyway, it might not have been all that big of a deal - they were listed as apprentices to a skald and a mage/scout. A big part of Lalli's education was about living off the Forest cue his dismissal of supplies. I know some berries and mushrooms; Lalli likely knows enough to live off the forest all summer.
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Róisín

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2022, 01:33:56 AM »
Summer is good in a Northern forest, Autumn is better, even in winter you can hunt, raid squirrel stashes, or find roots if you know where to dig. But oddly enough the ‘hungry gap’ is late winter through early spring, when the new growth isn’t quite up enough to be useful and most of the Autumn/Winter food is used up. The first nettles, dandelions and chenopodiums are always a delight!

Whereas here in Australia the good foraging season is Autumn through Winter, with fungi coming up and all the greenery sprouting, while there are still roots such as the native yam-daisy or the invasive Disa bracteata if you know where to dig. And of course the soursops, Oxalis pes-caprae, an invasive weed with edible flowers, leaves and storage roots (the long white ones as distinct from the round brown roots which are only good for leaving exposed for the parrots to eat - they can digest those roots, which humans can’t.
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tehta

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2022, 09:47:44 AM »
I wonder whether that wouldn't be a pretty common topic of education for most immune people (in Finland), though? My grandparents, who lived through wars and famines, and my partner's dad, who grew up very poor, all picked up a lot of foraging skills. They all lived at the edge of the forest, but had 'city' jobs, not forester jobs. I mean, I am sure that scouts could have some special tricks, but identifying edible mushrooms and plants seems like a useful general life skill. As does hunting and fishing!

On the other hand, Lalli's actions with that squirrel suggest that he has no idea what he is doing as a hunter, which just seems weird to me. I interpret it as him taking someone's suggestion literally. Like, "Sigrun says it'd be great if we could get a squirrel in that stew!" which would sound crazy to him, but, hey, half of what is asked of him makes no sense, so... maybe it's a foreign recipe.

(I know, I know, Minna added it for humour value.... I am overthinking...)
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thorny

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2022, 06:07:49 PM »
On the other hand, Lalli's actions with that squirrel suggest that he has no idea what he is doing as a hunter, which just seems weird to me.

It came across to me more that he had no idea what to do as a cook.

I don't think we could really tell from the artwork whether the squirrel had been dressed out; only that it hadn't yet been skinned.

(Do we know whether Minna has any idea what to do as a hunter?)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 06:10:35 PM by thorny »

tehta

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Re: Preparations - Prologue Y0 and chapters 1&2
« Reply #179 on: July 23, 2022, 06:36:20 PM »
A lone hunter/gatherer living off the land should able to prepare what he catches. Scouts work alone!
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