Prompt of the week!

[tehta]

I wasn't treating Kasvatus as canon. (I don''t even always treat canon as canon! See: Emil's mother's death.) I was just saying that, according to the author, it's a rune that they have read about IRL (I find this plausible as I have read up on runes myself, and there were so many odd ones.) And I certainly didn't mean to invalidate your story: I just thought the kittenfiller rune sounded amusing. I am very sorry if I was out of line!

And I guess my own take on how magic and science interact in the SSSS word, and in other fictional worlds (which I have never articulated before, mostly because I thought it was the default take) is that newly-discovered magic would become yet another topic for scientific study. I mean, Reynir's runes seem to follow discoverable rules? In canon, not just in Jitter's story. So when I say that Icelandic coffee is grown with magic I don't mean JUST magic, I mean that there are some well-maintained and monitored greenhouses that have a bunch of carefully-chosen runes all over.

[dreki]

I see now! Thats okay.  Less of a "well actually" - rather more "hey here's this neat thing that's similar"

Within Kasvatus I know there's enough evidence they are clones, but frankly any unfixed female with outside access is at risk of knocking up. Cats travel far on their nightly prowls.

Spells to boost fertility I imagine are pretty common in every culture.  I tried looking up the original icelandic rune Kasvatus references and I managed to find bdsm gear so. Um. I think I'm looking wrong.

Reynir's runes seem to follow discoverable rules?

In canon there is definitely an element of plot convenience. In my own experience with magical practice - there can be a strong element of intention and personal belief that impacts the outcomes as well, which if that's true in SSSS canon it throws off the scientific process.  Too many variables.

My mood and intention and belief when I'm writing a line of computer code or mixing two chemicals together won't change the outcome, yknow?

There are definitely going to be scientists who enjoy working with mages and also mages that study and practice science on top of magic. There's also going to be those on both sides that neither like nor trust the other.

I now have the headcanon of disgruntled Icelandic scientists who resent the mages.  I imagine particularly around y15 - thats after the Exodus and after the equilibrium has been reached.

I imagine that initially the scientists were leaned incredibly heavily on to address the famine and then over the years suddenly these bloody Ásatrúar show up claiming real magic that turns out to be true and start helping with the famine as well.

And thanks to the timing, the populace lays more of the thanks on the mages than the scientists and turns their faith to the old gods.

Again, some scientists will get along. I imagine some will be furious, though. 

[JoB]

Spells to boost fertility I imagine are pretty common in every culture.  I tried looking up the original icelandic rune Kasvatus references and I managed to find bdsm gear so. Um. I think I'm looking wrong.

AFAICT (without the background you're starting from) that would be the Fe(i)ngur ... ?

[tehta]

Yeah, I do imagine that there would be some resentment -- especially if we take your headcanon to the extreme and say that the actual rune/runo does not matter at all, it's just a way for the mage to focus (?), and magic all about intention in a way that's even vaguer than the regular human psychology that is already studied. Resentment, and existential confusion, because as a scientist myself I can't help thinking 'but if there are rules, even psychological ones, then surely we can study them at least a little'.

But, yeah, so many variables! I know from "studying" myself and what it takes for me to write good code that, for me, the Ballmer peak is a complete myth. But maybe something like it does help others! And maybe (some) ssss mages experience a similar effect. I imagine that, for some, runos could flow more easily after a glass or two of booze. Especially if they get socially anxious about addressing Kuutar directly.

[Róisín]

I have never seen magic and science as being mutually exclusive (says the person who sat through the first year of university physics lectures going ‘wow, so that’s how (some bit of traditional magic) works!’ I imagine that effect would be even stronger given modern physics. Most magic familiar to me has spells both for fertility and sterility, often combined with practical acts the effect of which is enhanced by the magic.

And the Kasvatus series has, if I remember correctly, at least two non-canon mages, one of the skald girls, Tuuri’s old workmates from Keuruu, whose magic is small domestic stuff such as housewards and knitting protective magic and luck into the sweaters she makes for her friends, and also the girlfriend of another of the group, who has magic enough to contact Onni in his Haven as the boys walk back from Moscow.

Traditionally, of course, most our-world magic from all cultures across the planet has been what Reynir scorns as ‘farm magic’, with a few exceptions of battle magic and exploration.

[dreki]

And the Kasvatus series has, if I remember correctly, at least two non-canon mages, one of the skald girls, Tuuri’s old workmates from Keuruu, whose magic is small domestic stuff such as housewards and knitting protective magic and luck into the sweaters she makes for her friends, and also the girlfriend of another of the group, who has magic enough to contact Onni in his Haven as the boys walk back from Moscow.

Canonically all Finns in the SSSS verse can use finnish magic and runos so it's  a little hinky who is and isnt a mage, I think. The one who could contact via dream space definitely would be, I imagine. Thanks for the reminder.

Yeah, I do imagine that there would be some resentment -- especially if we take your headcanon to the extreme and say that the actual rune/runo does not matter at all, it's just a way for the mage to focus (?), and magic all about intention in a way that's even vaguer than the regular human psychology that is already studied.

There's a school of thought that all magical tools/spells/runes/etc are about giving the practitioner a way to focus.

Also it's impacted by how multiple practitioners around the world and over generations use it.  So a rune is a bit like a road thats been worn down by wagon wheels - however a dedicated person can change those ridges.

(And also blessed by the gods, that's an important aspect within SSSS)

And mages are able to trace those ridges but non-mage scientists would have no way to do so aside from relying on hearsay.  Which some will be happy with and eager to record and will make others furious.

I also wonder how much non mages can get value from drawing runes.  If they only work for mages I can imagine that irritating scientists.  And lay people tbf.

Resentment, and existential confusion, because as a scientist myself I can't help thinking 'but if there are rules, even psychological ones, then surely we can study them at least a little'.

Where do the gods fit into that? They work in mysterious, unpredictable, often contradictory ways - and can impact psychology.  Whether they follow rules is questionable.

Like adv 1 Reynir - to me it's pretty obvious that he was chosen by the gods to work through him.  I'd argue his choice to run away when he did, the half-cocked travel plan, and ridiculous stow away plan was all the gods' doing to finally put those souls to rest.

(And, frankly, save the lives of the expedition - without Onni's intervention, which was only possible through Reynir, they would probably all have died. From a god-accepting view, the gods are ready for them to explore the silent world and manipulated the government to grant the money and the expedition to ensure success.)

Shamanic sickness happens across cultures.  The gods putting their hands in things tends to look like moments of sheer insanity and acting out of character - and most shamans I've seen have found the psychological approach to explaining these episodes lacking. While psychologists find "the gods did it" a cop out.

I don't think Reynir was so successful just because he was an optimist or any reflection of his current psychological state.

He was successful because the gods found him the most useful person for a job they needed at the moment so ensured his success.

Then he's not really needed by the gods in adv 2 - the Finnish gods seem quite apathetic to the kade - so there's no real sign of the blessings he had in adv 1.

[dreki]

Also the book Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer is a great book about combining modern science with traditional practices and myths.

[Róisín]

In most our-world cultures that have systematised magic I have found some equivalent of the concept of ‘psychic edifice’. That is to say, a sacred space such as a cathedral or a stone circle where religious faith and/or magic change the nature of the space. Some very old artifacts or tools, among them such things as runes or Oghams, can build up the same kind of concentration of power which users can tap into to enhance and strengthen what they are doing.

[Jitter]

We need a new prompt! Suggestions?

[tehta]

I was going to say that I am worried about repeating an old suggestion, as I can't remember what we have already had as prompts -- maybe we should make a list?
But I think we haven't had something like 'organization' or 'record-keeping' or 'bureaucracy' yet, so would suggest something along those lines. Dry topic, but could be interesting in the ssss context?

[dmeck7755]

let's do bureaucracy
It show its ugly head in adv I many times (When they get money etc.) Plus when they are traveling.  (Entry into Mora etc...)

Hopefully my writers block will clear

[Jitter]

If we can’t remember having done some prompt, we may as well do it again We’ve had the same in the Chapter Break Fillers and it’s never done any harm!

But, I don’t think we’ve had bureaucracy so let’s go with that!

[JoB]

I don’t think we’ve had bureaucracy so let’s go with that!

"So," Frithjof stammered, "you're sitting here waiting for fish."
"Not just any fish," Anker replied, "it has to be salmon."
"And even more precisely, salmon of the future?"
"Yes. We don't have the means to store and transport actual fish, nor would anyone need us for doing that in a centralized fashion. The Pool is for trading derivatives."
"But nobody is coming here to trade ... umh, here. Or is there? I find that hard to believe, considering that I didn't even know there's a settlement here."
Nor did any of my fellow troll hunters know, Frithjof thought. They don't say it, but the utter silence behind my back proves that they consider it their captain's task to figure out these madmen and their "president".
"No, that's correct. The trade came to a stop during the Rash."
"... you don't think that maybe you should, you know, adapt to that?"
"We don't hear much about the rest of the world here, but we do know that aquaculture is picking back up already."
"There are fish farms in Iceland, okay, but salmon? I hear that they occasionally try to enter rivers from the sea, but the fences put up at the river mouths prevent that, at least all around Iceland."
"Trust me on this one, our country used to be very important in the production of farmed salmon. Those farms weren't all the way into freshwater back then, but salmon is quite euryhaline, after all."
"... okay. So you're sitting here, waiting for the farmers in Iceland to rediscover salmon as a fish that can be farmed, and then you expect them to come here to trade their future ... umh, I suppose the term's still 'harvest'?"
"Yes. That's our stated purpose here."
"Do you have any idea when all that might come to pass?"
"... not really. As I said, our information from the outside world is ... well, not only delayed but also fragmentary. My grandfather used to complain through most of his post-Rash life that, instead of just peacefully being the Pool's chairman, he had to organize an entire hamlet just to keep it running. But now that that's done, I have little doubt that we're up to the task, whenever it reappears on the table."
"... you know what? Fine. We shall send a message to Iceland to ... remind them that you're waiting here for their return. And, of course, report to our superiors that there's a settlement here that they might want to keep in mind for their ... rather short-term plans. Is it okay for you if we scout the surroundings some more, just to ... bolster our report to them a bit more?"
"Why, sure, be our guests ..."

Spoiler: show

Inspired by the Hamburg Coffee Exchange, which persisted quite a while - decades, IIUC - beyond any tangible purpose on three retirees' workdaily routine of "The Exchange is now open!" - "What are the prices?" - "They're unchanged." - "The Exchange is now closed!"

[thegreyarea]

Great story, JoB!

I also think that bureocracy is an interesting prompt. I'll try to do something...

[Jitter]

Bureaucracy

When I lost my eye, I was devastated. There was nothing in the report about the spitting! I knew my field days were over. My team had a sniper, but still, a captain with no depth perception just is a nonstarter. But Ukko strike, me if I was going to retire onto some nice peaceful island!

I was far from impressed when I was posted into the Quartermaster’s Office. But I have since learned, tactical field experience comes in handy when arranging for supplies. Of course, it’s often true that we simply don’t have enough. But it is also often, too often, when the requests of teams are turned down by petty bureaucrats, either because of a minor detail that can be used as an excuse for dismissing it (seriously, I swear Kari and Ilse are keeping score on which one turns down more requests!) or because career bureaucrats don’t understand what is needed in the field. The Ancients had a saying that an army marches on its stomach, and that applies for Defense Forces as well!

So, youngling, I understand why you’re may feel like you can be condescending towards me. After all, I am just a one-eyed ex scout captain. Just don’t be surprised, if your rations… surprise… you after that.



Picture done in NightCafe Studio using Stable Diffusion text-to-picture AI.