White Noise (Webcomic by Adrien Lee) SPOILERS

[Jitter]

Here is the thread for discussing White Noise (the one by Adrien Lee - there is another webcomic with the same name) which you can read here: http://www.white-noise-comic.com/comic/1-0 (this links to page 1).

This thread will contain spoilers up to whichever is the latest page at each time.

White Noise was the Comic of the Month for October 2021, recommended by @Keep Looking here: https://ssssforum.com/index.php?topic=1237.60

White Noise has been running since 2011 (yes, a full decade!) and updates pretty regularly on Sundays. There are pre-determined breaks mainly between chapters. The first long arc is apparently coming to its conclusion, but the author has further stories planned so not to worry (too much).

Oh btw do read the text under the comic page! It contains a description, originally intended for screen reading technology for the vision impaired but it adds a lot even when you can see the comic.

There are several queer characters, including trans folks in various stages of their journey. Sex is openly implied but no explicitly shown. Being trans and/or queer are important themes in the story and drive the plot on occasion, but I would call it more of a story (adventure/quest/road movie/??) starring queer characters rather than being mainly about queerness. I’m vanilla to boot and I have enjoyed the story immensely. It also presents profound thoughts about identity and factors influencing who we are. Also magic! Monsters! Fighting! Bravery! Friendship! Love! Body positivity!

I will now proceed to swoon over because of certain events in this and the previous chapter.

[Keep Looking]

I will now proceed to swoon over because of certain events in this and the previous chapter.

Ohhhhh yeah, the last few chapters have been very swoon-worthy. Both because of the lovely romances and friendships that are building, but also because it feels like we're being balanced on a knife's edge as to how and when all the missed connections will be put together. I'm nearly ready to faint with all the will-they won't-they put-the-pieces-together!

Hawk and Mari's building relationship has been really lovely, especially as you can see how much they both needed a source of care and affection in their lives. And Hawk deserves nice things after all he's been through. Although the complications thrown in by Mari's status are definitely going to throw some sticks in the works - I'm excited and pretty nervous to see how it turns out.

But Vlad. Vlad who sits in the centre of a big web of connections yet hasn't managed to quite fill in the missing pieces. It almost makes me want to scream. I do have to say, though, I love how the two originally separate storylines are getting increasingly tangled together.

I'm also excited to see how the radio plot will play in with everything else that's happening, as it's connecting characters across the different worlds and storylines. It really does feel like everything is coming together.

[Róisín]

I have started reading this - don’t have much time and am doing so in five minute rest breaks between tasks so it will take me awhile. Fortunately I read fast! I have reached the point in the tale where Hawk and Teigh are setting out north on their journey to find Hawk’s sister. I will be very interested to find out what is going on with Liya and Helygen. A good recommendation.

[Jitter]

Roisin, I imagine you will in particular like Helly You probably already noticed, but the people that are called "spirits" here are not actually spirits but the fairly human-like inhabitants of the other main world of the story, Aetheri, where Liya now is. Many (most?) of the spirits have some magic, but they are corporeal people.

Keep, YES. I have in particular loved how Mari's way of appreciating Hawk and taking it for granted that Hawk is good in many things has helped Hawk see himself differently. This is one of the key messages about identity in my view. The gender identities of many of the characters is of course important, and I like the various ways it's been considered and the different stages and approaches of the various characters. But it's not the only type of identity growth in the story at all. Liya is finding her path, but even more so with Hawk.

As for Mari's status...

Spoiler: show

that is the one thing I'm not very happy about. It's understandable how he wants to be considered just him but still it's wrong that Hawk doesn't know. Firstly, anyone involved with the cynn may be in danger. There have been attempts on his life. He's counting on nobody knowing about his forays to Enodia, but someone can and eventually will recognise him (already did but luckily that was a friend).

Secondly and perhaps more importantly. Consent is described very beautifully between them, especially in the scene where they finally get physical. But is it really consent on Hawk's side, when he doesn't know who he is with? Not entirely clear. 

[Keep Looking]

As for Mari's status...

Spoiler: show

that is the one thing I'm not very happy about. It's understandable how he wants to be considered just him but still it's wrong that Hawk doesn't know. Firstly, anyone involved with the cynn may be in danger. There have been attempts on his life. He's counting on nobody knowing about his forays to Enodia, but someone can and eventually will recognise him (already did but luckily that was a friend).

Secondly and perhaps more importantly. Consent is described very beautifully between them, especially in the scene where they finally get physical. But is it really consent on Hawk's side, when he doesn't know who he is with? Not entirely clear. 

Spoiler: show

Yeah, that's one thing that I'm concerned about too! I mean, I understand why he hasn't told Hawk, but I'm bracing myself for when the news gets out. And yeah, like - not only does Hawk deserve to know at this point of their relationship, given how close they are, but also there's a lot of potential for interesting diplomatic incidents if Mari gets recognised being all romantic with Hawk with the wrong kind of people (aka the extremely anti-immigrant anti-mixed species relationship traditionalist Aetherians that control, like, most of the assembly).

I do appreciate the character aspect of Mari not telling Hawk - in that this character who's generally seen as both a good ruler and just a pretty decent and kind person all-round is making some really stupid decisions - I do think it adds depth and complexity to his character? But it's also a really, really stupid and somewhat reckless decision.

[Jitter]

Still about Mari

Spoiler: show

Yeah, that's one thing that I'm concerned about too! I mean, I understand why he hasn't told Hawk, but I'm bracing myself for when the news gets out. And yeah, like - not only does Hawk deserve to know at this point of their relationship, given how close they are, but also there's a lot of potential for interesting diplomatic incidents if Mari gets recognised being all romantic with Hawk with the wrong kind of people (aka the extremely anti-immigrant anti-mixed species relationship traditionalist Aetherians that control, like, most of the assembly).

I do appreciate the character aspect of Mari not telling Hawk - in that this character who's generally seen as both a good ruler and just a pretty decent and kind person all-round is making some really stupid decisions - I do think it adds depth and complexity to his character? But it's also a really, really stupid and somewhat reckless decision.

Spoiler: show

I agree with you that it adds an interesting nuance on him as a person. Like you said, he’s such a decent person and pretty much perfect in many aspects. Perhaps his greatest flaw is pushing himself too muc. Especially with that in mind, indulging in the relationship with Hawk as a person is even more understandable. It’s the one thing he does for himself, his only haven of rest and recuperation.

We the readers have been shown enough of Hawk’s character to be fairly certain he would see through the  whole Cynn thing and decide to be with Mari nevertheless, but Mari doesn’t have the same certainty especially in the beginning of the relationship. And he is of course encumbered by a lifetime of always being first and foremost the (current or future) Cynn. So I have no trouble understanding why he would do this.

And yet. Where is the line? What if everything else was the same, except that Liya had died the very beginning? Not by direct order by the Cynn, but as collateral damage in a mission sent by him? Or, what if it had happened because he had given orders that stopping the slavers is always a priority and if some offworlders die in the process, it is a an acceptable loss? Or, that he had sent the Order to get more healers to the palace?

He didn’t, but each of the cases would mean the situation is less forgivable than now (actually now there is nothing to forgive because no bad deed was done. The line has to be somewhere.

I am reminded of the horrible situation in the UK where undercover police officers had been sent to live with activists (“hippies”) to gather intelligence from them, and they lived there for years and formed relationships. At least one of them became a father of a child of one of the activists, all the time under false pretenses. Some of them were convicted of rape, and rightly so, as the relationships would not have happened if the women had known they were informants.

So, is Hawk being in a non-consensual relationship? It’s not the same thing of course because Mari is not hiding his identity for a reason that is against Hawk or means to harm him in any way. Yet if there is any reason to think Hawk might choose to not be the Cynn’s boyfriend if he knew, then it’s glaringly obvious his consent isn’t 100% clear.

[thorny]

Oh help I'm caught up. Bah.

Spoiler: show

And they still haven't all met back up again. Are they going to wind up doing so in the middle of a riot brought on by this plan? And get yanked apart again just as fast in the chaos?

And as to the consensuality or otherwise of the relationship --

Spoiler: show

This is really bad. Hawk's in love and Numair knows it; this isn't only sex. Not telling Hawk who Numair is is cruel. It's a betrayal.

-- but Numair's got nobody, nobody at all, who can see him without the skin of the Cynn. And he needs that so badly. This is a mess.

Numair at least seems to know that it's a mess.

And somewhat related:

Spoiler: show

Is it just me, or is Numair/Mari looking more female at the beginning of chapter 12? maybe in response to Hawk, like somebody coming into kemmer?

[thorny]

Page, finally!

This is building up quite nicely to Something Really Happening Soon --

[Keep Looking]

Page, finally!

This is building up quite nicely to Something Really Happening Soon --

(Just checked the new page) Ooooooooohhhhhhhh yeah this is building up.

I love how it shows the news being spread around across the different everyday conversations, I think that's a really cool way of showing the general attitudes of different people and the potential for people to be quite receptive - it really indicates that something's gonna go down if the broadcast goes ahead.

[Jitter]

I like it too, it’s very well depicted and believable.

But, I’m very worried about Numair’s safety. The “that ship has sailed” thing reeks of foreshadowing, and I really don’t think he’s physically in good enough shape to be able to withstand a major attack. Maybe he’d better take a bodyguard and a healer along when he goes in to deliver his speech?

Although it would be quite a lot for poor Hawk to deal with if he were to simultaneously find out who Mari is and that Liya is alive. On the other hand I think it would be easier if he found out about Liya first and Mari second, but I don’t see how this could happen.

All in all the “not quite meeting” is getting a bit convoluted. Given how easy it seems to be to travel between the worlds, it would seem likely there would be a postal service, and if so, would it be too much to ask for Felix and co to send a postcard to Teige and Parker? The tanuki girl (sorry I forgot her name) at least knows how close friends Hawk and Teige are / were and that Teige would very much like to know Hawk is alive and out of the Trade.

Of course Vlad is right in the middle of it all, but even if he never mentions names of either his housemate or his boyfriend (which sort of makes sense with him being a covert vigilante), there are other ways for the penny to drop!

[Keep Looking]

All in all the “not quite meeting” is getting a bit convoluted. Given how easy it seems to be to travel between the worlds, it would seem likely there would be a postal service, and if so, would it be too much to ask for Felix and co to send a postcard to Teige and Parker? The tanuki girl (sorry I forgot her name) at least knows how close friends Hawk and Teige are / were and that Teige would very much like to know Hawk is alive and out of the Trade.

Yeah, I always do wonder why the group of ex-refugees in Enodia, once they discovered that Hawk was alive and safe, didn't contact Teige and the others in Aetheri to let them know Hawk wasn't, y'know, captured or dead anymore. It seems like there'd be some kind of accessible way of making contact, and since that group all went through similar traumas and it's fairly clear that Hawk's important to the Aetheri crew it seems illogical that nobody would reach out.

And yeah, I'm also very worried for Mari's safety. I feel like many of his actions these last two chapters have been rather reckless or ill-considered (not telling Hawk about who he is, placing himself so centrally in the radio plot, just going out to Enodia completely alone in the first place (surely he could befriend some kind of guard, or at least just let somebody know that he's gone to Enodia but will be back by the evening and if not then please seek help - y'know, general safety protocol)). He seems really resistant to asking for help, and I feel like we're definitely coming up to a point where there may be consequences for this - I'm just hoping any consequences won't be too tragic.

[thorny]

Hi Liya!

[thorny]

This had better be a dream. -- the comments seem to think so.

[Jitter]

Definitely! At least he has the previous hair and not his current... I forget the name of his current hairstyle, with hair only in the middle of the head. Or, upon closer inspection, he has short dark hair on the sides and longer white hair in the middle (see e.g. p 12-1).

I was hoping to see Hawk, yes, but I meant in happy circumstances!

[thorny]

True. Even presuming that it's a dream: having dreams like that is certainly not happy.