Thoughts on the End of SSSS

[wavewright62]

I admit that I actually kinda like the bear shuffling around. 

Hear me out!  Juxtaposed with the kallohonka, it feels to me like a cycle of regeneration (although obviously *that* bear is not a direct rebirth of our poor maligned beasts), and I can imagine Mielikki and Tapio are doing their best.

[Jitter]

Lueley, I’m certain that Emilalli will not be established in canon. I don’t think it ever was going to be, but especially now. Her church doesn’t approve. But as already mentioned, I don’t think it, or any romantic relationships, was ever intended to be openly written in. The Sig/Mik thing is surprisingly clear lately.

On the other hand I don’t see how it could be canonically mad impossible short of killing one of them, which I sincerely hope is not in the cards at least anymore.

[tehta]

I mean, there  are quite a few pages of plotless updates left, plenty of time for Lalli to meet a nice Finnish girl while hanging out on that balcony all winter.

(If we're not getting any more plot or hints of future adventure, I would almost prefer for the comic to end now. Not just because of potential emilalli jossing: because I worry that theological themes will seep in somehow, and I don't think I would enjoy that at all.)

[thorny]

Even if Lalli does meet a nice Finnish girl: the romantic relationships that people start off with are very often not the ones they wind up with. So even if Minna puts such a thing in the epilogue, I don't see why people can't fanfic away.

(I suppose she could show them all happily married in year 110 with six kids each. But open marriages exist . . . and look at what Bujold did in-canon with one of her solidest Vorkosigan-saga marriages!)

[Jitter]

My point exactly, even if one of them (or both) married, it would not have to mean they wouldn’t get together at a later date, or now for that matter.

For example I assume having children is something that would be strongly expected from both of them, being immune and Lalli a noita related to other powerful noita. They could well marry women and have children, and the whole thing could be based on all parties knowing and agreeing the marriage is to produce children and their real partnership is with each other.

Or, they are perhaps not very skilled with emotions, so one or both could easily be seen as “floating” into a heterosexual marriage because that’s how it tends to go, and then realize later that you are not supposed to feel like your marriage is nothing but a chore.

Even saying out loud “I’m not gay” could well be denial, or missing understanding of oneself, or just confusion of a youngster.

We don’t really know anything about relationships and family forming customs in the Known World, so we can come up with anything

[moredhel]

Even saying out loud “I’m not gay” could well be denial, or missing understanding of oneself, or just confusion of a youngster.

Absolutely seconding this. There is a lot of confusion going on in the wide land of queerness.

[tehta]

Sure, we can write our way around anything: marriages, loss of competence, religious conversions. Or death. (If I ever write some post-canon adventures for the crew, I would very much like to resurrect Tuuri.) But if the next few pages contradict my headcanons for the characters directly, I'll feel sad.

[Jitter]

Agreed, I hope it doesn't come to that!

[thorny]

My point exactly, even if one of them (or both) married, it would not have to mean they wouldn’t get together at a later date, or now for that matter.

For example I assume having children is something that would be strongly expected from both of them, being immune and Lalli a noita related to other powerful noita. They could well marry women and have children, and the whole thing could be based on all parties knowing and agreeing the marriage is to produce children and their real partnership is with each other.

Or, they are perhaps not very skilled with emotions, so one or both could easily be seen as “floating” into a heterosexual marriage because that’s how it tends to go, and then realize later that you are not supposed to feel like your marriage is nothing but a chore.

Even saying out loud “I’m not gay” could well be denial, or missing understanding of oneself, or just confusion of a youngster.

We don’t really know anything about relationships and family forming customs in the Known World, so we can come up with anything

Or they could be bi; and the Known World could have either formal or informal setups to acknowledge multiple relationships.

Or, for that matter, the Known World could have either formally or informally acknowledged processes for same-sex couples to produce, and to have the option to raise, children. -- don't we have at least one example of that in fanfic already?

[Róisín]

Or we could have the situation often seen in the Nordic sagas and the Celtic hero-tales, where the bond between the heroes, the saga-friendship or soul-mate thing, transcends ordinary relationships and remains through marriage or the changes of politics. One of the things I do in the world is tell traditional stories, so that those old tales are not lost, and one such tale that has deep resonances with those who have known such friendships is ‘The Fight at the Ford’ from the Irish epic of the Tain. The two heroes wind up on opposite sides in a war, through obligations that they cannot avoid, one of them kills the other, and the resulting story is one of great beauty and power.

There are many such old tales in which the heroes may share families, or form a clan-like structure with several partners. Many ways their story might go.

[catbirds]

Lueley, I’m certain that Emilalli will not be established in canon. I don’t think it ever was going to be, but especially now. Her church doesn’t approve. But as already mentioned, I don’t think it, or any romantic relationships, was ever intended to be openly written in. The Sig/Mik thing is surprisingly clear lately.

Outside of the realm of what this would mean for the comic, what exactly are the beliefs of "reformed baptist" christians in Finland? Especially in regards to homosexuality, gender, immigration (from places outside of western europe or from western europe), women, and wealth? I can find things related to "reformed" christians and "baptists" in general, but not for her specific sect and not for finnish or european christians of that sect.

Either way, given that she chose it herself and likes it, as opposed to, say, someone really young who grew up in it and just stays in it because they have no clue what else they'd do (does it even work that way?), I think it's safe to say she agrees with whatever the church believes on such matters.

[tehta]

Minna has named her favourite theologians: John Piper and RC Sproul
Their views are easy to discover, but ooof. Personally, I wish I had not read the stuff on gender roles.

[Róisín]

Seems to me somewhat narrow and inhumane. People are as they are, and in my experience trying to impose a One True Way on everyone just doesn’t work. Ever. Respecting one another is so important.

[JoB]

what exactly are the beliefs of "reformed baptist" christians in Finland? Especially in regards to homosexuality, gender, immigration (from places outside of western europe or from western europe), women, and wealth?

Hm. Wikipedia has a page on "Reformed Baptists", and when I open the infobox's "Doctrine" section, "Separation of Church and State" and "Freedom of Religion" jump out to me ...

(Also, "sola scriptura", which I'd guess mostly nails down their views on gender roles. No idea so far about the rest of your keywords ...)

[Jitter]

I don’t know much about them, Baptism is tiny here in Finland with about 2000 members. I’m looking up some things, but I’lll have to write on the other computer later. Their stance towards homosexuality I checked before I wrote the above. They don’t approve gay marriage, it’s actually written in their rules that marriage is between man and woman. There are not many such questions in their rules, which mostly cover the organization of the parishes and the church. Equal marriage has been an issue for a few years now, and our main church (Evangelical Lutheran) is struggling with it. Civil marriage is equal in Finland since a few years.