aRTD re-read

[catbirds]

This thread is for a re-read or maybe even a first read of A Redtail's Dream, for those of you who are interested!

If anyone doesn't know what it is and is curious about what Minna made just before making SSSS, then this should be a great place to start! And if you're here to take a trip down memory lane like myself, that's also good! I loved the story a lot when I was a, uh, younger teenager so it's kind of nostalgia to me.

So, to start, does anyone have any suggestions on how much you want to read at once? A couple pages a week, a page a day, or a chapter a month? And if we want to rotate who starts discussions and such. We could also discuss themes, the relationships between characters, artistic choices, Finnish folklore/mythology references, or whatever else comes to mind when you read the comic! Some discussions like general analyses could come at the very end!

Spoiler: a note on certain words in the comic • show

Note that at least the English version of the story does make use of the R-slur a couple of times and makes a lot of fat jokes. Be mindful of that, especially if it could make you uncomfortable! Unfortunately, I can't remember the specific pages, but I can read ahead if anyone wants to check.

For pre-reading discussions, we could chat about what we enjoyed about it or how we found it the first time around or anything else that isn't in "spoiler" territory, in case anyone hasn't read it yet. Anyway, let me know if you're interested and want to lead a chapter/section discussion! Maybe even a specific one you liked? Also if you're reading it for the first time and want to participate in discussions. I'll set the start date to about two weeks from now, for now

Reading Schedule

Prologue & Chapter 1 ~ October 15
Chapter 2 ~ October 22
Chapter 3, up to page 111 ~ October 29
Chapter 3, to end of chapter ~ November 5
Chapter 4, up to page 179 ~ November 12
Chapter 4, up to page 226 ~ November 19
Chapter 4, to end of chapter ~ November 26
Chapter 5, up to page 331 ~ December 3
Chapter 5, to end of chapter ~ December 10
Chapter 6 ~ December 17
Chapter 7 ~ December 24
Chapter 8 ~ December 31

(Wow, finished just in time for the new year!) (unless otherwise requested)

[RanVor]

I would love to reread aRTD, but unfortunately, not right now. Sorry.

[Opaque]

I'm in for a reread at anytime. It'll be fun.

[thorny]

I tried but failed to get into it some time ago. (It's possible I was put off by the stuff in the spoiler, but I'm not sure; I may just not have been all that interested.)

I'd be willing to give it another try; but can't guarantee I'll stay with it.

[thegreyarea]

Catbirds, you can count me in.

I've never read ARTD in full, just fragments, several pages each time, when it somehow was referred on comments, here at the Forum or at Disqus. I began reading it once but for some reason left it for later... Well. I guess later will be in two weeks!

I also came to know it's existance some time after reading SSSS, probably because of the vote reminders on Disqus.

I'm curious to read it, anyway. It seems interesting, and Minna's art is a delight.

As for inappropriate words or jokes... Unless they are prevalent enough to make reading it unbearable - which I get is not the case - I can overlook them and focus on the bright side.

So I'll be waiting for you to set the date. And thanks for starting this!

[thorny]

As for inappropriate words or jokes... Unless they are prevalent enough to make reading it unbearable - which I get is not the case - I can overlook them and focus on the bright side.

I think reading it along with a batch of other people who I know agree that they're inappropriate might help.

[Yuuago]

I doubt I will be able to participate consistently in a re-read, but I will try to pop in.

The above discussion made me think to look at a (relatively spoiler-free) review I wrote of aRTD back when I first read it several years ago. It mentions the same caveats as above, but I also had some construction-related issues - I felt the prologue and the first few chapters were very clunky and weirdly-paced and hard to get through. Honestly, even though I really love this comic, I still feel that way.

So, if first-time readers find they're having trouble getting into it, I suggest trying to stick with it until the end of Chapter 3; the third chapter is where I feel it finds its feet.

[Róisín]

Though to be fair, Minna was very young when she wrote it, and was still learning a lot of both the construction and background computer stuff. At the time she said she was doing it as a practice run for her main work.

[catbirds]

Yeah, for a story she wrote for practice, it was very good. And I don't think she meant for it to be some deep exploration of humanity or just anywhere close to perfect, I just enjoyed it for what it was. Apparently she didn't know about inserting bleeds and stuff beforehand, but to be honest, even though I had to learn that for school, I still forget all the time :'D

Grey, I hope you'll enjoy the art! The lineart was done traditionally and you can tell by the way the lines look. And I liked the art in aRTD a bit more than the art in SSSS, but that's personal preference. You'll see.

I do hope we can have an open discussion about things we like or don't like about the story as we go through it, though! My first reading of the story was pretty shallow because I didn't enjoy the beginning much, kind of like what Yuuago described, so I read it hurriedly and forgot about it several times before I made it past chapter 3 or 4? I've also seen a range of opinions from "spent the entire time disliking Hannu" to "spent the entire time crying," but not much back-and-forth discussion and analysis about the story both because (according to Minna) there aren't really that many profound themes in the story and because there probably wasn't a centralized forum for it like the SSSS forum. Not that it's likely something on that scale will happen now, but hopefully this re-read will be a good place to discuss the story in general.

Anyway, I'll start setting up a schedule for now! It'll be in chunks of 25-50 pages a week, assuming we'll be taking our time with it. The first chapters are pretty short and mostly introductory, so we could probably read a few of them at once. These are mostly based on what I feel are natural transitions in the story. Feel free to suggest alternative dates and page arrangements (because I'm pretty inexperienced at organizing Forum Things ). You can also read ahead and just participate in the discussion as we go along (and hide major spoilers, should they be brought up). If you've read it before, you also do not have to re-read it to discuss it

Also note that the chapter length almost doubles between chapter 3 and 4.

Tentative reading schedule

Prologue & Chapter 1 ~ October 15
Chapter 2 ~ October 22
Chapter 3, up to page 111 ~ October 29
Chapter 3, to end of chapter ~ November 5
Chapter 4, up to page 179 ~ November 12
Chapter 4, up to page 226 ~ November 19
Chapter 4, to end of chapter ~ November 26

[Jitter]

Catbirds, your schedule and other suggestions look very good to me! The organizer sets the stage, but no one can make a fun event alone, so it’s up to all participants to contribute.

I also very much like your call to open discussion. You are absolutely right that this and other reading etc events like this need not and should not be limited to praise!

As for my own opinion, I’ve never really cared for it a lot. Hannu is a brat! The ways Minna has used the underlying tradition are clever, but the characters aren’t really to my liking. I don’t know, maybe I’ll join you every now and then nevertheless.

[LetsEatBees]

I would like to participate if that's okay.
When I first read ARTD I had a lot going on in my life, so I tried to finish it
quickly and I don't think I really got to appriciate it.
I had recently re-read it in preperation to re-read SSSS; and I realized it a lot
more than I first did, I liked the pacing from chapter to chapter and the dramatic build up
was good within chapters and accross the narritive.

The R-word didn't really bother me, was kind of a blunt reminder of what people
used to say more often in the 2000's.

Would be fun to talk to more people about ARTD generally, maybe about some story or mythology
aspects if possible. This sounds fun, I look forward to it.

[Jitter]

LetsEatBees, all threads are open to anyone, with the exception of games on the Roleplaying board! You are of course welcome to participate.

[catbirds]

Hey everyone!

I just realized that there may be a little bit of a time zone difference for some people, so I'll post this a bit early.

So, now that it's the 15th of October, let's start the discussion for the prologue and first chapter of aRTD!

If you're new to the story, feel free to talk about how you like it so far and what you're expecting. And for those who've read it, hide spoilers.

I'll start!

First things first, the art style is very cute! I think this was the first time Minna's drawn humans (?) and also her first complete comic, so it's nice to see the way their faces are drawn pretty experimentally. I can notice a few inconsistencies here and there with colour, lineart, facial expressions, etc..., but overall, it's lively and fun... for now. It gets much more stylized and dramatic later!

I... enjoyed the interactions between the family members. My experience with a big family is that there's never total agreement over anything. It's not particularly pleasant when you experience it, but when you don't get to be with your family, it suddenly gets very lonely... though it's fair if that sounds awful to you, actually. I kind of understand Hannu's distaste for family gatherings, too. The hiding away from the crowd and all that...

The plot itself is pretty normal at the moment. I mean, the task that they were given wasn't very interesting. The solution kind of feels like it was meant to be a joke, too. But that's fine, I think it does get a bit more involved later on.

Spoiler: for chapter 6 ish • show

Hmmm... though I think I should add that while it's mild now, Hannu does continue acting immature? I was reading ahead in various spots, and I noticed that there's a part where he starts dunking his relative's head underwater? I may have selectively forgotten that he did that, but now I'm starting to understand why people didn't like him much. Oops. Maybe I was just a different person when I first read it Still, it's going to constantly bother me as I scrutinize the comic and notice that he just does not get better!

The prologue was also an interesting idea for starting a story, but I wasn't too interested in it personally. It's still very lighthearted, but maybe a little bit too lighthearted? Though maybe it has some relevance to Finnish mythology that I'm unaware of. I think it might be a parallel with the family of humans, but something about the family dynamic of the foxes kind of bothers me.

Anyway, that's all I can think of to say for now! I'd love to hear your thoughts on these chapters

[JoB]

I think this was the first time Minna's drawn humans (?) and also her first complete comic, so it's nice to see the way their faces are drawn pretty experimentally.

(She did the cover art for the Zarkora miniseries before ARtD, though. Certainly a couple more humans in other covers and personal artwork as well.)

(Edit: Hold on, why is the reference to Zarkora marked as being from 2015? When vol 1 is said to have been published in 2012? Anyway, I might've been wrong about Zarkora in particular being pre-ARtD ...)

[Opaque]

Yes, there are a few inconsistencies that I didn't really notice before. For example: when Hannu is talking with Paju in the classroom their heads are kinda small. It looks really funny to be honest. On the other hand, a lot of the close ups (like Riikka on page 7) look so great. She did really well for not having drawn many human characters before. But I probably was too distracted by the pretty color scheme she used to really notice the inconsistencies in her art before. The way she uses the colors to indicate different moods is fantastic.

The interactions between the characters are really good too. Although the dialogue can be a bit stiff in places it's not too bad. Puppyfoxes arrogance comes across right away in his interactions with Hannu and Ville which I find entertaining. He's the kind of character you like to dislike. I also agree with Hannu about Paju. I would also get anxiety if I were around her too long. Although I like how she treats him like he's not a full grown adult.

Overall, these chapters were a fun read.