The Great Purge

[dreki]

I’m relieved that LP now has a warning on it. Several young people I know who encountered it unawares were horrified and very put off by the ambush theology, and would likely have handled it better and read it more receptively had there been a more honest content warning. I had introduced several of the local teens to Minna’s work, knowing that the girls liked beautiful art and folklore as well as I do, and then when the awful introduction to LP happened the reaction from their parents was the sort of disgust I would have expected had I introduced them to hard porn. Neither they nor their parents were at all ready for the ‘everyone who doesn’t agree with me will Burn In Hell’ bit.

Personally I'd rather my kids see porn than LP. Well done porn is a celebration of humanity and encourages healthy relationship dynamics and body exploration.

LP... Is the people who complain that saying "happy holidays" is anti-christian because acknowledging not everyone is christian is wrong.

So one thing I love about SSSS is that it's so religiously tolerant.  Finnish, Icelandic, Christian, and Atheist all work together for the same goal.

And aside from the atheist disbelief and Anne's very vague remarks - there's really no disrespect at all. Anne doesn't demand Reynir convert or tell him he's going to hell.  Reynir doesn't refuse to help until Anne personally thanks Odin. 

I know that the icelandic documents refer to the Finns as "heathens".  (Which I find amusing because "heathenry" is also a term reclaimed by Norse Pagans) But it doesn't seem to be in an especially mean way just in the "people who don't worship our gods" statement of fact.

I know pagans, so the idea that those gods exist is real to me - and the world where people of differing belief systems can practice and coexist and all be right? That's the world I want.

So LP.

"Like saying Jesus is the only way to God. How non-inclusive. As if other spirituality isn't valid." From the influencer on the chat show justifying edits to the bible, who we are supposed to disagree with and see as proof of how bad things are.

That was the line that broke it for me and made me lose a lot of respect for Minna.

Because it's an outright statement that, no, religious tolerance is wrong it is Jesus or Nothing.

It just flies in the face of what I had most respected her for.

Honestly if she hadn't acknowledged other belief systems I wouldn't have cared so much. If it was just this weird bunny romp of a random place that outlaws the bible? Whatever. Work out your issues with your former atheism however you need to.

But don't sit there and say that it's *wrong* to accept other religions.

(I know I'm kind of bulldozing here, but I only just found this forum and have been sitting on it since I first read LP)

[Róisín]

As a lifelong active Pagan, from a family and kingroup and set of friends in which several kinds of Pagan, several kinds of Christian, Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, Buddhists, folk who keep several different native faiths and several other types of faith interact and coexist by agreeing to differ, I really can’t get my head around this kind of narrowness. I am suspicious of any kind of ‘one true way’, be it religious, social or political, because I can only see it as a way of exercising ‘power over’ without admitting to it. Not that I object to discussion and debate, I find it fascinating. But this kind of ‘agree with me or burn in hell’ feels to me of the argument of someone who knows that their views have no validity, either of faith or of reason. Vile stuff!

[Jitter]

@dreki your “bulldozing” is welcome here! If you potter around and read the thread from the time LP dropped, you’ll see that a lot of people were hurt and found some solace here. Part of the shock was how we were caught unawares, just going into “oo cute bunnies” to “WTF I have just been forcefed” with zero warning. And the way Minna was very dismissive of the many comments asking her to include a content description (which she has since addend, thankfully) made it a lot worse.

The discussions are open and will stay open, so even if this or any other thread has been dormant for a long while, you are welcome to restart the discussion! (With the exception of the role playing board, please read the rules post there).

I’d also like to say we are happy to have you join us! We have an introduction thread in the General Discussion board, it would be nice (but not mandatory) if you popped there to say hi. There is also the Getting started with the Forum message in General, which will give you some pointers! But there is no wrong or right way to enjoy the forum, just read and participate as you please.

[dreki]

As a lifelong active Pagan, from a family and kingroup and set of friends in which several kinds of Pagan, several kinds of Christian, Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, Buddhists, folk who keep several different native faiths and several other types of faith interact and coexist by agreeing to differ, I really can’t get my head around this kind of narrowness. I am suspicious of any kind of ‘one true way’, be it religious, social or political, because I can only see it as a way of exercising ‘power over’ without admitting to it. Not that I object to discussion and debate, I find it fascinating. But this kind of ‘agree with me or burn in hell’ feels to me of the argument of someone who knows that their views have no validity, either of faith or of reason. Vile stuff!

I grew up in america in areas that are christian dominated - where even our "embrace all faiths" was really "embrace all flavors of christian".

Then I lived in Ireland where protestants and catholics still hate each other and were killing each other not long ago. Which just baffles the HECK out of me!

"Jesus is right. The bible is right. But there's a few details we disagree on so let's kill each other". It just makes it so obvious to me that religious intolerance isn't about God but about humans taking any excuse to be jerks to each other.

So I just really have no stomach for the christian victim complex. 

I don't understand why it's terrible to allow other faiths to coexist and say "hey maybe there are different roads".

The part that most bothers me is how regional religion is.  I know things are more global now - but for most of human history what you believed was heavily determined by where you were born.

It just seems ludicrous to say "so god chose this one chunk of humans and let everyone else live in delusion and burn in hell". It's just baked in racism/xenophobia.

If christianity had like independently developed in each continent - honestly I'd be more inclined to say "okay maybe that's right".

And most cultures have prophets.  I don't know why it's so terrible to say "hey, maybe god talked to everyone and met them where they were and set rules that make sense for their circumstances and geographic needs".

But no. It's "my faith is the only acceptable faith"

@dreki your “bulldozing” is welcome here! If you potter around and read the thread from the time LP dropped, you’ll see that a lot of people were hurt and found some solace here. Part of the shock was how we were caught unawares, just going into “oo cute bunnies” to “WTF I have just been forcefed” with zero warning. And the way Minna was very dismissive of the many comments asking her to include a content description (which she has since addend, thankfully) made it a lot worse.

The discussions are open and will stay open, so even if this or any other thread has been dormant for a long while, you are welcome to restart the discussion! (With the exception of the role playing board, please read the rules post there).

I’d also like to say we are happy to have you join us! We have an introduction thread in the General Discussion board, it would be nice (but not mandatory) if you popped there to say hi. There is also the Getting started with the Forum message in General, which will give you some pointers! But there is no wrong or right way to enjoy the forum, just read and participate as you please.

Oh thank you - my social anxiety is at 11 right now in the real world, so joining a forum and replying to old threads and stuff is pinging that.  Feckin brains.

[Róisín]

dreki, I tend to agree that god/gods probably talked to everyone and I do think that ultimately all the roads arrive at the same destination. Seems silly to argue when we could be helping one another along the way. I do have quite strict standards about how much interference in the lives and beliefs of other people is okay. Which from my point of view is as little as possible. Most pagans I know don’t proselytise, regarding faith as a personal matter between the individual soul and its god or gods. I see proselytising, whether applied to politics, religion or the latest health fad, as being very much a ‘power over’ thing, a way of controlling other people. Don’t like it.

[Jitter]

Speaking of purges, the Hummingfluff website lists Minna's completed works as: Lovely People.

Now the comic itself is on Hiveworks and I very sincerely hope will stay there. ARtD is also up. So not exactly a purge, but...

[dmeck7755]

Speaking of purges, the Hummingfluff website lists Minna's completed works as: Lovely People.

Now the comic itself is on Hiveworks and I very sincerely hope will stay there. ARtD is also up. So not exactly a purge, but...

Yeah I found it sad that she divorced herself of the works that did bring her attention and allowed her to continue her current endeavors. 

I hope it will stay up also.  It definitely depends on how many hits the site gets and if any revenue is generated.  There are supposed to be the books for Adventure II, so hopefully that long.  It is worrisome indeed.

I only found the SSSS store on hiveworks.  No links to the actual comic. Were they there?

[Jitter]

No, sorry, I have never come to the comic via Hiveworks. I meant that she has a deal with them so it’s not up to only her whether it stays or goes, although I a under the impression that the creator retains all and every rights to the work even with Hiveworks. So, if she decides to pull the plug she probably can but also there’s probably someone she needs to discuss it first.

I don’t think the adv II books will be happening, we see on the forum how the readership wanes with no updates. But of course I have no idea how well the Forumites represent the potentially buying cliemtele. If I had to guess I’d say people who have joined the forum are on the average more likely to buy than the ones who have never been here, but obviously I don’t know and have zero information about the numbers now or previously.

[thorny]

Does anyone have copies of adventure II saved (for private use I think it would be legal, of course you couldn't sell or probably even distribute them)?

It seems to me it would be a real shame to have that artwork disappear entirely and forever. Adventure I at least exists in the books.

[dreki]

Does anyone have copies of adventure II saved (for private use I think it would be legal, of course you couldn't sell or probably even distribute them)?

It seems to me it would be a real shame to have that artwork disappear entirely and forever. Adventure I at least exists in the books.

I might decide to.

The law on publicly published internet art is weird - and policing it is even harder.

Hiveworks has so many comics that just "went on hiatus" years ago I'd be furious if they purged SSSS.

Also their site is ridiculous to navigate if you want to find comics from it. But I digress.

 I imagine Minna has a contract with them since Hiveworks helped run the kickstarters and distribute the books - so I don't think she could request they take it down easily.

[Jitter]

According to the Hiveworks webpage, all their artists are hosted by Hiveworks, and they do keep the finished works up too so hopefully we are safe!

Also seems like SSSS is / was one of their crown jewels, it’s mentioned second in their short pitch that lists six titles. So who knows, maybe there is enough readers to make the books happen after all.

Also also they say that they have “majority queer/LGBTQA+ and diverse creators” which I didn’t know!

[dmeck7755]

According to the Hiveworks webpage, all their artists are hosted by Hiveworks, and they do keep the finished works up too so hopefully we are safe!

Also seems like SSSS is / was one of their crown jewels, it’s mentioned second in their short pitch that lists six titles. So who knows, maybe there is enough readers to make the books happen after all.

Also also they say that they have “majority queer/LGBTQA+ and diverse creators” which I didn’t know!

Also, I am sure there are lots of people who have not read it yet, looking for comics to binge.  So hopefully these people will be drawn to and and will enjoy it. 

[wavewright62]

I cannot find SSSS or ARtD on Hiveworks itself, nor on that banner of thumbnails they run on their other comics (checked from Namesake). It does look like they've finally moved a bunch of indefinite hiatus comics to that section (RIP Blindsprings).
There is still SSSS merch in their store. I believe that's in the contract, and from memory Minna was sanguine about leaving it with them. 
Minna went with Hiveworks to help with promotion, printing, admin and distribution.  She eschews most of that promotion & production now, especially (I presume) wanting to distance herself from a brand known for queer creators & LGBTIA+ content.
She stated last year (don't have source to hand) that if Hiveworks wanted to produce Adv II books, she'd let them, but it was their deal not hers.  She estimated that there was enough material for 2 books.

[dreki]

Also also they say that they have “majority queer/LGBTQA+ and diverse creators” which I didn’t know!

Yep.  Webcomics have destroyed by ability to appreciate Hollywood's dregs of "representation" because in so many webcomics queerness is just omnipresent.

If you want a Finnish creator who does queer stuff -
https://www.thewitchdoor.com/

I cannot find SSSS or ARtD on Hiveworks itself, nor on that banner of thumbnails they run on their other comics (checked from Namesake).

The hive works site is crap to navigate. If you look up comics by title under 'S', SSSS is still there. If you're on mobile you may have to hit more comics and then the list still collapses fast.  Seriously terrible website.

 The banner is random and doesn't show all of the hiveworks comics only about a dozen at a time. Reynir's pretty face still comes up regularly. I see him a few times a week at least.

She stated last year (don't have source to hand) that if Hiveworks wanted to produce Adv II books, she'd let them, but it was their deal not hers.  She estimated that there was enough material for 2 books.

I cannot imagine them running a Kickstarter without the artist on board.

[Jitter]

Earlier she was saying that if HW decided to run Kickstarter for the Adv2 books, she would draw the bonus content (there are a couple of illustrations and a minicomic in each book) but that may of course have changed since.