Future of our Fandom

[JoB]

We have our stories, our ships, the families, the Mead Moose, the squirrels, [...]
This time I also encourage you to just say “I’m in” even if that’s all you feel like contributing right now.

Hmmmmm ... as someone who, in comparison, is noticeably more focused on the seminal work (and general banter) than the fan works, I feel like I would be lying if I were to say more then "I'll try to be in" ... (which is essentially the same treatment I'm giving SSSS right now)

One, I think we do need a central focus. But while I don't think we should drop the SSSS connection altogether, I don't think that can be our sole or main long-term focus; and I think that keeping SSSS in the name, long-term, might well do ourselves a disservice; especially if Minna keeps heading in directions she seems all to likely to be heading in.

Minna is saying quite clearly that in some while, she'll be stepping away from SSSS, and when I look at four of her works (ARtD, SSSS, CoH, and LP) being spread out over three websites, I would guess that she'll be dropping her own use of the name as well.

I don't remember her post with which she OKed creation of the forum way-back-when, so I have no idea whether there were any provisions about pulling the right to use the name again later on. (The Wiki has an explicit licensing scheme that she agreed to implicitly, and would have trouble to back out of.) In general, Minna's not one to guard her IP rights tightly, though.

... in a nutshell, are we pressed in any way to decide on that right now?

The other thing I'm wondering, and maybe I've just missed it: how are these forums hosted and how is that funded? And are those who have been doing that interested in keeping going, and if so in what fashion? -- I know they're independent of Minna; but I don't know what is, and just who are, required to keep them in existence.

It's been a while since I was involved into the sysadmin issues, but I'm pretty sure that it's still a custom installation of SMF plus some add-ons plus some "homegrown" patches and fixes running on top of a donated cloud server. And thus dependent on moderators, knowledgeable admins, and the donation(s) to stay operational as-is.

[Vulpes]

I have nothing coherent to add, other than, I'm in. You guys are interesting and I'd like to at least try to keep something going here after SSSS ends.

[RanVor]

I'm sure this is a very important discussion and I'd really like to say something meaningful, but I'm afraid my brain isn't very big on thinking these days...

I don't think I have much to contribute to this community, other than occasional whining. I don't really do fanart, I don't have any ideas for SSSS-related fanfiction and I just don't feel alive enough to participate in any serious discussion. I want the forum to survive, though. I... Ugh! I can't even articulate how I feel about this. I'm sorry I can't offer any help. I wish I wasn't like this. Oh well. Good luck, I suppose.

[SkyWhalePod]

I'm sure this is a very important discussion and I'd really like to say something meaningful, but I'm afraid my brain isn't very big on thinking these days...

I don't think I have much to contribute to this community, other than occasional whining. I don't really do fanart, I don't have any ideas for SSSS-related fanfiction and I just don't feel alive enough to participate in any serious discussion. I want the forum to survive, though. I... Ugh! I can't even articulate how I feel about this. I'm sorry I can't offer any help. I wish I wasn't like this. Oh well. Good luck, I suppose.

I want to point out that I don't think any of us expects people who aren't fanart/fanfiction creators to suddenly become creators. Folks who are here just to say "hey that looks cool" or "i agree" are still important! And we want to know that you'll still be here. Just saying "I'm here and I have no idea what to say but I hope everything works out" is all you needed to do, RanVor

It sounds like a community re-read in some form or another would be especially good for users like JoB who prefer to discuss the original work. Raafie's suggestion of mixing up the pages sounds like a fun exercise, although you do lose the sense of the plot itself that way, and part of my hope is that people become re-inspired by the old plot/s and mini arcs. But again, it does sound like fun to look at pages out of context. I think the community at large should decide which style of revisit it likes more.

I really welcome the idea that Raafie's ramble brings up though -- that we give each other the freedom to do analysis or stream-of-consciousness responses to the work we're looking at. That totally fits into how I'm imagining a community re-read going. In that case, maybe we could even just do a new re-read page every two or three days (or even longer), to give people a chance to reflect on it who feel like reflecting on it.

[thegreyarea]

I love the idea of a re-read. It's a great activity that will surely spark many discussions and also lead to art, be it new or reviews of works previously done by the time each page went online. It also has the potential to retain with us many people that feel more connected with the original work than with its derivatives.
I like it even more because I wasn't here in the beginning (I started reading around page 850) so it would be like having the opportunity to go back in time! And I think the best option is to keep pages in order. the alternative could be funny but would be confusing. 2 or 3 days for each page sounds great, and it means many years of re-reading. So probably 2 days for each page would be fine.

As for the Forum, I once asked Feartheviolas (an admin.) about it back in September, because I was wondering how the Forum was supported... Here's the answer I got:

"The site is free. We do have a small fee for the domain and hosting services but since one of our other admins works with a hosting company, we have a discount.

For now, we don't need any money to keep the site running. If it changes in the future, then there would be a sitewide announcement."

So I don't see any big problem on that side for the moment.

[thorny]

RanVor, I don't make any pictorial art, and haven't produced any written fanworks except unfinished bits and pieces that have stayed inside my own head. But here I have been rattling on in various threads of this discussion all the same.

thegreyarea, thanks for info. -- I've lost track: have we had any admins in this discussion so far?

More generally: I'm certainly not opposed to a re-read; there seem to be quite a few people who want to do this, and I might well join in. But I hope this group doesn't entirely turn back in time and only circle around on where SSSS has been. I'd like to also see us open out and find additional work, by additional artists, which we can discuss.

[Jitter]

I also like the idea of reread! And I would prefer to go in order. The prologue would probably be rather interesting at this point in history! We’ll have to set some sort of rules for posting of each “new” page, because it will take years even if we take one page a day with no breaks whatsoever. So I don’t think any of us is willing to commit to be The Poster of each ad every page. I also agree that maybe every other day would be good to leave room for discussion.

Then a couple of comments. I think it’s absolutely vital that the future is opened also for fans who like Lovely People and / or whatever comes next. We are what we are because we are tolerant, willing to discuss and strive to be inclusive. We certainly can’t turn our backs to any of our own! I don’t think anyone in this thread actually meant to suggest such a thing, but I want to underline that we must avoid looking like we do that. I’m not saying we must include anyone who manages to say “I like a work of Minna’s”, but people who are willing to play by our tolerant, inclusive, friendly and polite rules should of course be taken in.

On the other hand, discussions about such future works should remain “contained” so that they are not pushed on people who are not interested. LP has stayed well in the dedicated thread (actually there is such important discussion in that thread that I’ve been wondering whether we should raise some of those into a dedicated thread but couldn’t really choose) but if there will be a body of future work, probably a board for it would be the way to go. Time will tell.

I’m with JoB on that the name issue doesn’t have to be decided now. I’m at this very moment inclined to keep it, but we’ll see. For now SSSS is going on and according to Minna it will stay the same so we can probably revisit the naming issue later?

Ran! You are absolutely an important member! I was trying to word the invitation so that it doesn’t only indicate people who do some sort of art etc, but obviously I failed. I will add something to the opening post. It’s not about the fanwork (although that is important too) but about the community. Each and every one of us who participate in the discussions are part of that community. You for example are often on the Comfort Corner offering hugs to people. Very important!

I also think we could and should diversify into work by other artists. This could take the form of yet another dedicated board. However I have no idea how hard or difficult it is to create new boards so I don’t know how feasible this would be.

[Opaque]

I haven't been here long but y'all have been so warm and welcoming. Reading all the things people have to say about so many different topics while being open to other veiw points has been so interesting. There is always more things to discuss. There is always new aspects to old topics that can be discussed.
As much as I sound like an anime character saying this... with the power of friendship I'm sure we can keep moving forward.
So, what can I say that hasn't been said already? I'm in.

[RanVor]

I want to point out that I don't think any of us expects people who aren't fanart/fanfiction creators to suddenly become creators. Folks who are here just to say "hey that looks cool" or "i agree" are still important! And we want to know that you'll still be here. Just saying "I'm here and I have no idea what to say but I hope everything works out" is all you needed to do, RanVor

RanVor, I don't make any pictorial art, and haven't produced any written fanworks except unfinished bits and pieces that have stayed inside my own head. But here I have been rattling on in various threads of this discussion all the same.

Ran! You are absolutely an important member! I was trying to word the invitation so that it doesn’t only indicate people who do some sort of art etc, but obviously I failed. I will add something to the opening post. It’s not about the fanwork (although that is important too) but about the community. Each and every one of us who participate in the discussions are part of that community. You for example are often on the Comfort Corner offering hugs to people. Very important!

*sighs* All of you have obviously missed an important part of my post: I just don't feel alive enough to participate in any serious discussion. There's a reason I haven't been particularly active lately and it's not because I got bored. Recently I've been having trouble with focusing on things and articulating my thoughts and feelings. Oftentimes I see somebody posting something interesting and I want to reply, but I fail to find the words for it, get frustrated and find something else to do. Even writing this post has been a challenge. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting conversations I'd love to get into, but unfortunately, my ability to participate is severely limited.

[Opaque]

*sighs* All of you have obviously missed an important part of my post: I just don't feel alive enough to participate in any serious discussion. There's a reason I haven't been particularly active lately and it's not because I got bored. Recently I've been having trouble with focusing on things and articulating my thoughts and feelings. Oftentimes I see somebody posting something interesting and I want to reply, but I fail to find the words for it, get frustrated and find something else to do. Even writing this post has been a challenge. I'm sure there's plenty of interesting conversations I'd love to get into, but unfortunately, my ability to participate is severely limited.

Yah, I know that feeling. You might be surprised at how many have that feeling from time to time. While it'll be enough to pop back in now and again just to say hello it's not like you have to. If you prefer to step away that's okay. Just take care of yourself. If you need a place to vent or if you feel well enough to join a conversation then we'll be here to listen. Here's a cookie.

[Vulpes]

A few thoughts:

1) A re-read would be interesting, and like others I think that, as amusing as randomizing it might be, it would be better to go in chronological order.

2) Yes, please, include a board for fans of Minna's newer works! There are lots of parts of this forum I never bother with (the CoH board, for instance; I'm not a gamer so that was of no interest to me) and having a board (or boards) for newer works would be consistent with the friendly, inclusive vibe, but avoid clutter for those who aren't interested in those discussions.

3) The name should be fine, even after SSSS ends. That's what brought us here in the first place, after all!

4) Ran, your standards of discourse are far too high. Just pop in sometimes and say, "Yes!" or "Nice!" or "Hugs!" or whatever is appropriate to the occasion. Your presence will be noted and appreciated.

[catbirds]

I like the idea of a re-read! I've been pretty distant from the fandom for the past while, but I've also been going through a few of the older pages and I think that a lot of the small, charming quirks of the comic are still there! E.g. Lalli's cookie heist on p. 228-229 and the little speech bubble trick on p. 214, both adventure 1. If no one commits to posting a talking prompt for each page, maybe people could list their favourite moments like that once a day or something as some kind of alternative.

As for the new board, I think there's a good amount of people on this forum who will be interested in what Minna has to say about her faith, so it'd be good to have that there. Maybe even people who don't totally agree but have much to say on faith irt the mystery future comic (hey, religion is complicated!).

[Tarnagh]

I'm in. I also like the idea of a re-read. I'm not sure how much I'd contribute but this is a really decent group of people and I only just found you, so if nothing else I'd like to be lurking for a good long while. 

[thorny]

3) The name should be fine, even after SSSS ends. That's what brought us here in the first place, after all!

I’m with JoB on that the name issue doesn’t have to be decided now. I’m at this very moment inclined to keep it, but we’ll see. For now SSSS is going on and according to Minna it will stay the same so we can probably revisit the naming issue later?

I agree that the name issue doesn't need to be decided now.

It seems to me that the name would need changing if/when any of the following things happen: 1) Minna asks or tells us to stop using it 2) Minna does something, in her artwork or otherwise, that causes her to be so generally known as toxic that we don't want to be associated with the name 3) these forums move on in such a fashion that the name's no longer relevant.

It's possible that none of those things will happen, in which case the name could be left as is.

Then a couple of comments. I think it’s absolutely vital that the future is opened also for fans who like Lovely People and / or whatever comes next. We are what we are because we are tolerant, willing to discuss and strive to be inclusive. We certainly can’t turn our backs to any of our own! I don’t think anyone in this thread actually meant to suggest such a thing, but I want to underline that we must avoid looking like we do that. I’m not saying we must include anyone who manages to say “I like a work of Minna’s”, but people who are willing to play by our tolerant, inclusive, friendly and polite rules should of course be taken in.

On the other hand, discussions about such future works should remain “contained” so that they are not pushed on people who are not interested. LP has stayed well in the dedicated thread (actually there is such important discussion in that thread that I’ve been wondering whether we should raise some of those into a dedicated thread but couldn’t really choose) but if there will be a body of future work, probably a board for it would be the way to go. Time will tell.

2) Yes, please, include a board for fans of Minna's newer works! There are lots of parts of this forum I never bother with (the CoH board, for instance; I'm not a gamer so that was of no interest to me) and having a board (or boards) for newer works would be consistent with the friendly, inclusive vibe, but avoid clutter for those who aren't interested in those discussions.

We certainly shouldn't be pushing out people just because they like Lovely People and/or future work along the same lines. And we've had people who do like LP contribute valuable information to the discussion going on in that thread.

But -- trying to think how to put this. I'm not sure how hosting a board here to praise those future works would work out. Would we really get primarily people "willing to play by our tolerant, inclusive, friendly and polite rules" and posts "consistent with the friendly, inclusive vibe" if those works, like Lovely People, are themselves not tolerant and inclusive? Would it be considered intolerant or not inclusive to criticize the works in the fashion that many of us have been criticizing Lovely People? If not, would those whose essence is itself criticized by the works be expected just to stay quiet on the subject -- yes, we all know there are transphobes (or whatever) in the living room, just stay out of that room? ('There's nothing I find interesting in that room' isn't at all the same thing as 'there are people in that room who want me not to exist.') Would the moderators have a persistent heavy load trying to keep an inherently unstable situation under control?

I grant that we haven't seen the works in question yet, so can't say for sure what either they or their fanbase will be like. But I'm not really comfortable with 'we have to host anything that Minna comes up with, no matter what it is, or else we're not being inclusive enough.'

[catbirds]

But -- trying to think how to put this. I'm not sure how hosting a board here to praise those future works would work out. Would we really get primarily people "willing to play by our tolerant, inclusive, friendly and polite rules" and posts "consistent with the friendly, inclusive vibe" if those works, like Lovely People, are themselves not tolerant and inclusive? Would it be considered intolerant or not inclusive to criticize the works in the fashion that many of us have been criticizing Lovely People? If not, would those whose essence is itself criticized by the works be expected just to stay quiet on the subject -- yes, we all know there are transphobes (or whatever) in the living room, just stay out of that room? ('There's nothing I find interesting in that room' isn't at all the same thing as 'there are people in that room who want me not to exist.') Would the moderators have a persistent heavy load trying to keep an inherently unstable situation under control?

Oh, no. I think that's pretty much my worst fear with this fandom. If Minna goes that far off the deep end totally unchecked (because she's not listening to what people have to say!!!), then I don't think there's any reason to host anything other than serious analysis/discussion about her future works. For one, there's definitely a need to open up a space to criticize her future works because there's a good chance that she's not going to learn anything that makes her more open-minded (see: the years 2016-2021). Also, if the story itself is inherently hateful or attracts a hateful crowd, then I don't see a need to host a true "fandom" for it because it violates forum rules. Severely.

In the past, both in this fandom and outside of it, people have placed too great an emphasis on "civil" or "polite" discussion and then gone on to espouse totally discriminatory but politely-worded beliefs. And "inclusive" spaces that also let people who do intend to hurt people they don't like in are... bad. In fact, I think that's why a lot of people left... Doesn't sit well with me. Let's not make this mistake for the hundredth time.

Spoiler: definitely a take • show

This, and I think a lot of people who get hurt by these people's actions are rightfully bitter and angry.