Covid 19 - Updates from your zones

[Grade E cat]

Ouch. Good luck with that.

My own "a little on edge" news is that one of the French clusters of the British/UK variant is somewhere in the town right west of mine and I live close enough to the the four-lane road separating the two towns that the closest (and easiest to walk to) supermarket is right on the eastern edge of the town in which the cluster was found. My mother and I went to another supermarket this week-end (it's in a mall, so it's mostly a pyschological move).

EDIT on 14th: We're starting the nation-wide crufew at 6:00 PM this Saturday. It was already in place in many "departements" in the part of the country far away enough from the Atlantic to not get oceanic climate.

[Lenny]

Whoo, lockdown has been extended until 9th of February. Also, our current cabinet has resigned due to a child welfare scandal involving kids being taken from their parents without just cause! What great timing. (Though in light of what's happened in the US for the past few years, and how stuff has happened in Australia with CentreLink fraud-that-was-really-clerical-errors, it's kinda impressive that they're taking something like that as a serious enough breach of duty to resign for - I'm not used to that kind of integrity, haha.) Elections are in a few months, and it looks like we're going to be cut off from the rest of the world until at least March, since even with the lockdown the hospitals are still kinda full, and no one wants more of the new strains in the country than can be helped.

[thegreyarea]

Here in Portugal cases skyrocketed after Christmas (when restrictions were eased) and hospitals are almost at maximum capacity, while vaccination is still too slow because suppliers aren't able to work faster... 
It's beyond (my) understanding that we still see several people without masks, even forming small groups on the street 
Yesterday we went back on general lockdown (to last until the end of February), albeit "general" is an overstatement. There are dozens of exceptions, and many say that's easier to tell what's to be closed than the opposite. The most relevant areas closed are restaurants, cafes and bars (even if restaurants may work for take-away and delivery), clothes, shoes, hotels, gyms, furniture and a few more. And everyone able to work from home shall do that, which includes me (most times).
Anyway we're hoping that it will reduce the spread to a more manageable level until we can get more people vaccinated. But the situation is complicated and will remain like that until Summer (if everything works for the best).

Hopping for the best on your side Lenny, and BTW we aren't also used to that kind of integrity. Not at all...

[wavewright62]

Lenny, I am very glad you now have your husband there to share this lockdown with.

[JoB]

Figures in Germany are unsatisfying, Feds and state MPs will meet again tomorrow (ahead of schedule), rumor has it that they'll discuss not only extending the lockdown into / all across February, but also nightly curfews and upgrading part of the mandatory mask-wearing to FFP2 masks.

Spoiler: rant • show

The latter after a certain Southeastern state made that step, its MP ventilating that such masks are necessary and "readily available in commerce by now".

Reality check: Germany is already officially running a "get FFP2 masks to people at risk" programme, with a first phase in December where masks were shipped to pharmacies to be given out (primarily to known customers, but essentially to anyone wielding an ID) three each for free, and in January and February, said people at risk supposedly hand a tamper-proof coupon to the pharmacist that they received from their health insurance and get six masks for a subsidized price of € 2,-.

None of this has yet managed to make a blip on my radar screens. My local pharmacy, when I walked in in late December (after my quarantine), told me that they had never gotten any stock, and the latest news from my health insurance is that they received the coupons from the Bundesdruckerei and had about 10% of them mailed out to the clientele so far.

Technically, FFP2 masks are single-use only (marked "NR" for "non-reusable"), though the exact instructions often permit them to be used in intervals, up to 8h max in total. Yours truly - working from home - ordered a ten-pack for € 25,- last evening, from an el-cheapo online shop I know. Forums discussing how low-wage public-transport-commuting people are supposed to finance them sport lots of "search the Internet, they start at € 0,60 apiece" comments ... yeeeaaaahh right, and even healthcare institutions here have had to haul entire shipments into the dustbin because the FFP2 test seal turned out to be fake ...

In the meantime, because luckily not all functionaries and scientists live in an ivory tower, the question how to maaaayyybe reuse FFP2s has luckily seen some research. Now all I'll need to get are a) an oven that can precisely hold a temperature of 80°C, b) a thermometer of suitable range to verify that, and c) a complete shaving kit, as I've always sported a beard (and used but a trimmer) that interferes with the whole point of upgrading the mask to FFP2 ...

[Grade E cat]

Definitely see the problem with the oven option. The very first reusable masks I got could be strelizied in the oven at 70°C. I pretty much made the oven too hot, turned it off, opened it long enough to get the temp down to 100°C according to a thermometer that the household already owned anyway, threw the thing in and hoped the oven would stay over 70°C long enough. I lost one of them long before the max number of uses because my tendency to forget them there for the rest of the afternoon and my mother's baking had a bad interaction that resulted in melted elastics.

Some time ago, we had a news item saying single-use surgical masks could be washed up to ten times.

Meanwhile, luck has it that the first detected case of the South African variant is in the "departement" where I live (neighboring town with UK variant cluster is technically in another one, hence the relatively nifty four-lane-road border). Today is also the first day the bite of the 6:00 PM curfew is being felt, as my household has taken to do some errands between 6:00 and 7:00 PM on weekdays.

[Grade E cat]

"Great news!" was my spontaneaous reaction, but some people did end up in the hospital, so I'll settle for "Not bad considering how much worse it could have been!"

[Annuil]

"Great news!" was my spontaneaous reaction, but some people did end up in the hospital, so I'll settle for "Not bad considering how much worse it could have been!"

Indeed, Grade E Cat, however most of the people who ended up in the hospitals are already home and/or got the infusions, so we are doing quite good

[JoB]

Figures in Germany are unsatisfying, Feds and state MPs will meet again tomorrow (ahead of schedule), rumor has it that they'll discuss not only extending the lockdown into / all across February, but also nightly curfews and upgrading part of the mandatory mask-wearing to FFP2 masks.

Ooooookay then, lockdown extended 'til mid-February (very much expected), no curfews, and apart from the somewhat elusive FFP2 masks, we may also use KN95, N95 (essentially only heard of), and "OP-Masken" ("surgical masks"), which is a term I've never heard before in the context of either regulation or shops' specifications, only colloquially for whatever appears on the screen when you watch Scrubs, Dr. House, Medical Detectives etc. etc..

Spoiler: hmmm ... • show

I got a 50-pack of simple disposable masks from mid-2020 that happen to have the right greenish color, I wonder whether a) they qualify and b) whoever patrols the streets will agree with the answer to a).

Oh, and not much of an agreement on whether schools and the like will be open(ed). As in, the first MP announcing that his state will do whatever he decides right in the first news broadcasts this morning.

Edit: There's also the term "medical masks" that seemed to be used just as a collective noun for all of the above, but allegedly does imply some specific regulations / test seals. Let's see whether I can find some primary sources for that now ...

Edit 2: Turns out that both "OP-Maske" and "medizinische Maske" are tied to EU norm EN 14683 (with rumors of "only class 3 thereof"), which doesn't necessarily appear on the mask itself beyond a bare CE sign (which has much lower requirements IIUC). See vendor's descriptions, and use of forgery blacklists might well be advisable ...

[thegreyarea]

JoB, what our medical personal use (when they don't have a N95, that are white and pointy) are those greenish medical masks and they must comply* with EN 14683. That information must be stated in the box you bought (or on a leaflet inside). They should be of type II (IIR are splash resistant. One should not need one of those unless you are on surgery room).

A few days ago my wife, that is a doctor, examined a COVID positive patient that lied (on entrance she didn't declare any symptoms, just admitting them at the end...  ), including watching closely her throat. The only thing between them was a single type II medical mask, and my wife wasn't contaminated (she had to be tested after that). So you can trust that they are good enough. I've been using them every time I go out since March, have been several times with people that later found they had the virus and I also wasn't contaminated. Anyway one should not take chances and be very careful and disciplined about washing hands and avoiding crowded places as much as possible.

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/md_sector/docs/md_guidance-reg-req-med-face-masks.pdf

Just if any of you are in the mood for reading a scientific paper on that issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7#Sec12

* Of course there will be forgeries, particularly online. I would buy it at a pharmacy.

[JoB]

A few days ago my wife, that is a doctor, examined a COVID positive patient that lied (on entrance she didn't declare any symptoms, just admitting them at the end...  ), including watching closely her throat. The only thing between them was a single type II medical mask, and my wife wasn't contaminated (she had to be tested after that). So you can trust that they are good enough.

I'm fairly sure that professional masks used in a professional manner will do their job, as that is what they're made for. But on the other hand, I have not yet heard any of the authorities talking to the general public address the additional requirements for that, like beards/shaving or when and how to do a fit-test. Or that "vented" masks(*) pretty much drop the part of protecting others - and, for that matter, places you visit - from contamination. There seems to be a lot of experts convinced that if you have the hoi polloi wear medical or FFP2 masks whichever way they want, without specific training how to do that properly, they'll turn out to not be any more effective than non-rated ones.

(*) For those not familiar with the vocabulary: That's a mask where only the inhaled air passes through the filters, while the exhalation bypasses them through a one-way valve.

Anyway one should not take chances and be very careful and disciplined about washing hands and avoiding crowded places as much as possible.

[hasn't met other people outside the occasional visit to the supermarket since mid-December]
[which is why I've permitted my beard to grow extra long right now ..]

Just if any of you are in the mood for reading a scientific paper on that issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7#Sec12

... is it just me, or did the medical mask consistently outperform the (unvented) KN95 there?

JoB, what our medical personal use (when they don't have a N95, that are white and pointy) are those greenish medical masks

... since you suggested the reverse priority here ...

[thegreyarea]

I'm fairly sure that professional masks used in a professional manner will do their job, as that is what they're made for. But on the other hand, I have not yet heard any of the authorities talking to the general public address the additional requirements for that, like beards/shaving or when and how to do a fit-test. Or that "vented" masks(*) pretty much drop the part of protecting others - and, for that matter, places you visit - from contamination. There seems to be a lot of experts convinced that if you have the hoi polloi wear medical or FFP2 masks whichever way they want, without specific training how to do that properly, they'll turn out to not be any more effective than non-rated ones.

That's something that puzzles me too: Why we don't see public advice (particularly on TV) on how to put and use those medical masks. Yes, it's simple, but I see everyday people wearing it wrong, like not covering the nose (!) or pushing them below the chin without removing them (thus putting the internal side in contact with exposed skin, just to put that internal side, moments later, in direct contact with their own mouths and noses...)
And I made a mistake. The kind my wife and other medical staff preferably use are FFP2 - KN95, that is unvented, and not N95. It would make no sense to protect the professional while exposing patients.

[hasn't met other people outside the occasional visit to the supermarket since mid-December]
[which is why I've permitted my beard to grow extra long right now ..]

I don't use a beard and never thought about the problem that it could mean when one wants to wear a mask. But I see doctors using them over beards without much thought, so I suppose (but I may be wrong) that beards don't have a significant effect. otherwise surgeons would be required not to use beards, right?

... is it just me, or did the medical mask consistently outperform the (unvented) KN95 there?... since you suggested the reverse priority here ...

In the paper they tested efficiency in blocking outgoing droplets, and that's what medical masks are created for, to prevent doctors to infect patients. They also work the other way, but IIRC their ability to filter incoming droplets is more or less 80%. KN95 are named like that because they filter at least 95% of the incoming air, but as we see in the study are not so efficient on stopping the outgoing droplets. So if the main objective is to protect the professional (that is constantly exposed and is a valuable, hard-to-replace asset) them KN95, even if more expensive and demanding to produce, are the option. Otherwise medical masks are the choice because they are cheaper and easier to produce in large quantities, but always bearing in mind that when we use one we are mainly protecting others, while they protect us. That's why I find people that find excuses* for not wearing them so selfish.

*There is a set of medical conditions that make wearing a mask not advisable. Those people are not selfish, but should actually remain at home because they surely are at greater risk.

[thegreyarea]

And tomorrow Portugal, where the numbers keep going up, albeit a bit slower than before, will enter a tighter lockdown, with all schools and universities closed. Even things like click-and-collect will be closed. Only essential services and supplies, together with industries and agriculture, will remain open. I hope that with this step we will finally see streets almost empty like we saw in March (because so far almost everything looks "business as usual") and then we can avoid entering in the awful situation where doctors must choose who lives or dies. Because we are almost there. I would hate to have that in my hands, and luckily my wife doesn't work in that area, because I'm sure it would be devastating to her.

But there's at least one good new. She will be vaccinated tomorrow

[Vulpes]

Wonderful news for your wife, grey!

Here the requirement is for non-medical masks. Fabric, three ply preferred, two is acceptable and is what I've got, although I've made them with a pocket where you can stick a coffee filter in if desired. I don't use coffee filters (French press and moka pot) so I haven't tried that out yet. Cases are almost non-existent here so it doesn't seem worth the bother. If we have any outbreaks, I'll be picking up coffee filters for sure!

Newfoundland has been very lucky, total cases in the low hundreds and currently maybe six active cases in a province of ~500,000. We too could do with an education campaign on mask use - I see the same misuses here. Vaccinations are starting, slowly - low population density and long distances make it a challenge. But the end is in sight, somewhere down the line...

[Mirasol]

Yay, good news, Grey!

Also Germany here: Homeschooling is getting prolonged more and more, now we don´t have to write all the classtests anymore, apparently. Until now, we were allowed to go to school for writing exams, and then go home again. But only "necessary" exams. What is necessary? Uhm, yeah, next question?
As far as I understood the rule now is still quite similar, just now "absolutely necessary", which isn´t explained much better. And as I´m in one of the classes that theoretically graduate this year, every grade is somewhat necessary. But what exactly changes now with the stricter rules, nobody really knows. (No really, we got an official letter by the principal which essentially narrowed down to "homeschooling will last longer, maybe things change, maybe not".) You really can´t blame the teachers here, but I think someone should at least give us information whether the stricter mask-rules now also apply to schools...

Spoiler: bit of ranting • show

I ordered my new ID over two months ago which was a hassle in itself as the citizen´s center was only open during times I had class in the early morning because apparently that´s safer for the employees to only be available for like three hours a day. (and since I´m now an adult(TM) I have to go there myself.) So when I finally got there during an opening time, they told me immediately that the ID probably wouldn´t be done until the new year (which nearly costed me the opportunity to get my drivers license...), but then they finally sent me a letter a few days ago that it was done. So I go there this morning, and the thing is completely closed until (at least, depends on developments) the end of January. You can´t even reach them by telephone unless you have Covid or something really important comes up (like you move away or someone dies-level of important). I know they were also completely closed until about a week ago, so how long have they been open in-between? Have they at all? I understand that people need to be protected, but shouldn´t they at least be able to send it by post or something instead? Having a valid ID is kind of important, and there´s no way to get it. Ugh...