Covid 19 - Updates from your zones

[JoB]

They told us that too in the beginning, but apparently they found a way now.

The German IfSG does not provide strict "epidemics control trumps civil liberty X, but not civil right Y" guidelines (in spite of naming the rights to property and of the inviolability of the home as possibly getting trumped). The general understanding is that once restrictions are demonstrated to be "necessary, effective, and without alternative", they are legal to be imposed, for that moment - and those properties can, of course, be doubted, and challenged in court.

(General jurisprudence practice around constitutional rights adds a requirement that all restrictions thereof additionally need to be effective only until a specific date, forcing the legislator to explicitly pass a renewal if conditions keep being met beyond that date. I suspect that Baden-Württembergs back-then Verordnung about the first closure of borders, being issued by the Gesundheitsamt on the basis of the state government having passed on the authority to it and literally saying that restrictions shall remain in effect as long as that authorization persists, would have been overturned if someone had challenged it.)

[Mirasol]

I obviously meant no legal way to make it mandatory in Finland. Of course laws can be changed, but that's a tenuous process and since Finns tend to follow recommendations pretty well it's probably what we'll be getting.

I know, I´m sorry, I probably phrased it a little ambiguous. I of course also ment that some people told us that there is no legal way in Germany either. But as JoB explained, there is. Huh, I did not know that. Thank you for explaining!

[Suominoita]

The German IfSG does not provide strict "epidemics control trumps civil liberty X, but not civil right Y" guidelines (in spite of naming the rights to property and of the inviolability of the home as possibly getting trumped). The general understanding is that once restrictions are demonstrated to be "necessary, effective, and without alternative", they are legal to be imposed, for that moment - and those properties can, of course, be doubted, and challenged in court.

About the same in Finland too. The "necessary" part in particular as in Finnish (välttämätön) interpretation that includes effective (why do something that doesn't work?) and no better alternative (well if there was, why don't we do that?). Such as separating one part of the country from the rest. The distinction between things that absolutely MUST be done due to being necessary and things that SHOULD be done was made clear there. Once it no longer was a MUST, that restriction was lifted.

As for the masks... first it wasn't a thing simply because there wasn't enough masks -- and now, well, the social distancing and hand-washing suited us well and lots of other diseases were diminished too -- there are enough masks now, but they cannot claim them to be strictly necessary. Once the recommendation was given, though, most of the public transport providers took that as their policy.

[Jitter]

Mirasol, I understood your comment just the way you mean it. More it was for Yastreb. Thank you for explaining it so well, suominoita!

[wavewright62]

To no-one's surprise, our new lockdown in NZ was extended another 12 days, to match the 14-day incubation period.  The 4 cases have, predictably, grown into a fully-fledged cluster, with more cases expected to emerge over the next several days.  Unfortunately, they still haven't linked exactly how the new index case contracted the disease, with no known contact with any overseas returnees or border staff.

[Mebediel]

I feel like all my posts have been downers lately, but the university policy has flipped to "everyone who lives in the city and who works for the university needs to go to campus twice a week to get tested," which...you know...actually puts people at greater risk of exposure than letting people who work completely remotely not get tested. And this is a university that employs over 5,000 instructors (including both profs and grad workers), not to mention all the undergrads who are coming back to campus. The union is talking about possible actions. And school hasn't even started yet. Yeehaw.

[amaranthineamusement]

Update from New Mexico, my semester is still going through even as we watch UNC-chapel hill go down in flames in NC. They're requiring testing for all students, which has happened, but.... hmmm, not sure how confident I am about it. At least all of my classes are super small, but still. :/

[Auxivele]

My uni is connected to several others in the same area, but because if they let people on campus there would be so many additional people coming to the area, all the unis are making everyone study at home.

My high school friends are allowed to go to school, but they can only go in person twice a week. The other 3 days they have to study at home. It's all split up alphabetically.

[Yastreb]

Mirasol, I understood your comment just the way you mean it. More it was for Yastreb.

I expressed myself rather bluntly in my post, and I apologise for the tone of it.

I was expressing my surprise as just how the compulsory mask-wearing was put in place in Victoria without any apparent legal argument or much in the way of civil disobedience, save for (to my knowledge) the woman who walked into a hardware store and confronted staff, filming herself doing so as she taunted them in a manner I've seen in videos made by Sovereign Citizens.

[Jitter]

I expressed myself rather bluntly in my post, and I apologise for the tone of it.

No worries Yastreb, and no need to apologize! I just wanted to clarify.

[RanVor]

We're almost at 10000 cases daily. New restrictions are coming, but at this point I don't think anybody really believes they can make a difference, especially when 80% of the people still don't know how to wear their masks properly. So yeah, fun times.

[Grade E cat]

Today is the first day of a 9PM-6AM curfew in my area (close enough to Paris to be bound by the same rules as the city proper). I go out after 9PM a handful of times per year anyway, but the busiest time for restaurants tends to be after 9PM and they aren't making exceptions for theaters (not that I go to those much either, but it means things are bad for them also).

EDIT: We're past 20 000 per day country-wide.

[Jitter]

Finland is also officially in Wave 2 now. It was very clear it’s coming, but fir whatever reason there was some “we are not there yet but it looks concerning” for a long while. Hospitalizations are still low, but it’s only a matter of time before they start climbing, I’m sure.

We didn’t have actual curfew in the spring and aren’t likely to get any now, but restaurants must close at 23 and stop selling alcohol at 22 in Helsinki area and other areas where the second wave has properly started. Recommendation to work from home is possible is in force nationally as is strong recommendation to use masks in public transport, in shops etc. Maybe around half of people do. So, me and hubby are working from home but the kids are at school. The older one’s high school rules masks are required but it’s not enforced so “people are using them quite well” he says.

So, here we go again. Dammit. I knew it was coming, but it’s still irritating.

EDIT: recommendation to work from home IF possible is in force.

[Yastreb]

Restrictions is Melbourne are set to ease somewhat from midnight.

The limit on time outside one's home has been removed.
Travel is allowed out to 25 kilometres.
Up to 10 people from two households can gather outdoors.
Hairdressers and pet grooming businesses can reopen.
Real estate inspections and auctions can resume.

Further easing of restrictions may be announced on 1 November.

[Róisín]

Yastreb, best of luck with your state’s reopening! Let us just hope that no idiots mess it up with carelessness this time!