Latest Page Discussions/Comic Update Chitchat

[thorny]

the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. [ . . . ] Onni was very dismissive of the first person so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!

Looking again at that page --

are we looking at that mage who was the first to get turned into the kade? Panel 3, crouched by the toilet, holding her (probably her) head, very likely in pain and confusion?

I wonder if there wasn't quite a story there. Which, I'm afraid, we probably won't get to see.

[lwise]

which is that Sigrun and Mikkel took sauna separately from the other three.

I interpreted that as the sauna not being big enough for everyone, so they split three and three: the three younger ones (Emil, Lalli, Reynir plus Reynir's hair) together and then the three older ones (Onni, Sigrun, Mikkel) together.  On the other hand, I've always thought there was some attraction between Sigrun and Mikkel.

[Maple]

Also the original command structure has fallen apart, because they're doing this on their own time. They each decided to follow Onni for different reasons, so Sigrun isn't technically in charge, and often leaves decision-making to others, particularly Mikkel. Which to me is a more traditional and thus less interesting dynamic - the eldest male is in charge, ho-hum. I found Mikkel more interesting when he was subtly steering things from the background, as he was through much of A1.

It would make more sense for them to all follow Onni now, since Onni is the one who knows the area and is the main focus of all of this. Let the person with the most information lead.

[Róisín]

Interesting discussion about the gender thing. As a female who has spent a lot of time in mixed gender groups working in wilderness, mostly in the Australian Outback or the New Guinea Highlands, I can tell you that there are ways to do it, even in groups where I was the only woman, but it does require mutual courtesy and consideration.

And I think Sigrun does just fall naturally into positions of leadership, it’s her nature.

[LetsEatBees]

It feels weird because Ad2 was very clearly planned out for a long time, and yet doesn't have the polish or depth that should entail.
For me I wondered how much of the character changes were due to a natural change in dynamics necessitated by a radical departure from Ad1, or the author just wanted to get the story over with and was getting tired of the story.
Also I have to confess that I shipped Mikkel/Sigrun since Ad1, I think that distracted me from their now slightly domestic dynamic. 
I wasn't that surprised to be honest Minna didn't say that there would be no romance, just that it would look like a close friendship(though not sure if that is happening here)

[thorny]

I'm not bothered by Mikkel and Sigrun joining up, if that's what's happening. It seems to me an entirely plausible thing to happen. It's just the combination of that with other things.

The society clearly does include couples, and I think most societies are likely to. It wasn't that I was attracted to the idea of a society with no couples -- it was that I was attracted to the depiction of a society that also showed other types of relationships between/among people of different genders, and in which pairing off was optional.

[wavewright62]

Ooh, as long as I'm blethering on... re Onni vs the kade: I was thinking it would be really interesting if he picked it apart mage by mage, like peeling layers off an onion, until he gets to the unknown mage (who probably didn't know that's what they were) who was the first to get consumed. Unfortunately, I think that's unlikely, for two reasons. First, the info page about kades says that mages can be rescued "under ideal circumstances" and in "the initial stages of corruption"... although that would suggest that Onni's plan is doomed, as it's been quite some time since Ensi was taken over. Second, Onni was very dismissive of the first person so I doubt that he would be much interested in helping them. But still, I can hope!

I like this *heheheeee* it's a wicked development, with much potential for Drama.
For better or for worse, it also puts me in mind of this image from the day everybody was editing the crew as food:

GUYS GUYS



IT'S AN ONNION
I'm so sorry

[thorny]

-- okay, who or what just flew past that window?

[Vulpes]

I like this *heheheeee* it's a wicked development, with much potential for Drama.
For better or for worse, it also puts me in mind of this image from the day everybody was editing the crew as food:

Haha, wave, that Onion Onni (Onionni?) is awesome! You're quite right about the Drama. I have no clear idea of how it would work, only that it would be very cool.

Looking again at that page --

are we looking at that mage who was the first to get turned into the kade? Panel 3, crouched by the toilet, holding her (probably her) head, very likely in pain and confusion?

I wonder if there wasn't quite a story there. Which, I'm afraid, we probably won't get to see.

Yes, that was my interpretation. Wouldn't it be an incredible story, digging through the kade-onion layers and reaching her, and being able to finally, 90-odd years later, clear up her pain and confusion? As wave pointed out, much Drama potential. I've wanted to know more about this person since I first saw this page. As you say, though, we probably won't learn her story, at least not from Minna.

It would make more sense for them to all follow Onni now, since Onni is the one who knows the area and is the main focus of all of this. Let the person with the most information lead.

True, but Onni is decidedly not leading, in the sense of leadership. I'm really not sure who is - sometimes Sigrun calls the shots, other times Mikkel, most of the time all of them seem to independently be looking after whatever they're best at. Onni just wants them all to go home and leave him to his insane mission.

[muidole]

-- okay, who or what just flew past that window?

I looked at the comments and a lot of people are saying it's Surma, which makes sense. It probably got attracted by the screech of the floor troll, plus it was already tracking the crew since the cow beast incident.

I wasn't sure what it was at first either (thought it was just some random troll and didn't notice Surma's silhouette behind the window in the last panel haha)

[thorny]

Onni is decidedly not leading, in the sense of leadership. I'm really not sure who is - sometimes Sigrun calls the shots, other times Mikkel, most of the time all of them seem to independently be looking after whatever they're best at. Onni just wants them all to go home and leave him to his insane mission.

Onni appears to be coming apart at the seams, if he hasn't already done so.

He cried out to Tuuri when she died that he mustn't be alone. He then pushed Lalli away, trying to ensure that he'd be alone. He did reach out to Tuuri's ghost for help, but she's dead, and she can't stay. He tried, indeed, to take this on alone otherwise, even though it lowers his chances for success; and is refusing to lead or try to  coordinate the team, even though that also lowers his chances. I don't know if this is character development, exactly; more like character disintegration.

[Tarnagh]

Onni appears to be coming apart at the seams, if he hasn't already done so.

He cried out to Tuuri when she died that he mustn't be alone. He then pushed Lalli away, trying to ensure that he'd be alone. He did reach out to Tuuri's ghost for help, but she's dead, and she can't stay. He tried, indeed, to take this on alone otherwise, even though it lowers his chances for success; and is refusing to lead or try to  coordinate the team, even though that also lowers his chances. I don't know if this is character development, exactly; more like character disintegration.

Maybe ... it's supposed to be character development for Lalli? Onni may be older and in theory a more powerful mage, but Lalli isn't helpless as a mage and he's got the added bonus of being immune. There are potentially things he is capable of doing that Onni can't because he's immune. Perhaps it's time for Lalli to step up and take some responsibility, at least in regard to the Group of Mages. Remember, it was Lalli that showed initiative in A1 when Reynir first proved he had mage abilities. Lalli was the only one who thought to have him draw up a stack of protection runes and to draw more on the ground around the Cat Tank. Everyone else in the group at that point ignored Reynir except Lalli.

Perhaps it's time for Lalli to take some initiative when it comes to dealing with Onni as well.

[Jitter]

Oo, interesting discussion! Interesting current events too.

I am certain the shadow thing is Surma. We saw It stirring when Mole Bear fell and Mama Bear yelled out in grief. Also Surma's claws form part of the brilliant chapter cover.

Team leadership:
I agree that the team doesn't really have a clear leadership at the moment. In theory, Lalli is the leader for everyone except Onni, because the others followed him on his mission. The mission statements are also all over the place:
- Onni wants to end the Kade and/or save Ensi
- Lalli wants to save Onni (and possibly also help him now that he more or less* knows what Onni plans)
- Emil wants to make sure Lalli doesn't die
- Mikkel probably wants to keep the kids safe and also give Onni a piece of his mind about Shenaningans (this may or may not already have happened)
- Sigrun comes with Mikkel to speed things up and make sure he comes back to Norway with her (and probably also to keep the kids safe)
- Reynir wants to Help: Help Lalli find Onni, Onni win in his mission, and keep everybody safe. And have Adventures as a Proper Mage! That is very important.
(* I think less: Lalli knows Onni intends to do something about the Kade in the Dream World but I doubt Onni has shared what it is exactly he is going to, or thinks he's going to, do).

It seems to be more or less a cascade of goals that has currently resulted for all of them trying to be done with the Kade, in order to be able to leave with all appropriate members still mostly in one piece.

I have near indefinite trust in the Power of Love, so I actually think they are also all going because that's what families friends do. I.e. despite of what each has said aloud, the rest of them went after Lalli because they didn't even consider abandoning him. Towards the start of Adventure 2, we don't see any debating - once they learn Lalli has gone, they follow, whether for their stated reasons or just because.

Anyways, Lalli is clearly not a leader type. At least so far. When they catch up to him, Mikkel takes the lead and arranges the travel. Later, in Saimaa, it's again Mikkel who makes sure they prepare for the trip. It seems that Sigrun is making the combat-related decisions (for example to raid the settlement with the Kalmas - that was a bad call, but only because she received erroneous information) but Mikkel is managing the mission itself. Mikkel also has the best access to information as he can speak with almost everyone.

Like many of you have pointed out, Onni is definitely not in the state of mind to be a leader. I think he's a lot more powerful as a mage than Lalli could ever be, but that doesn't mean that Lalli would be useless! Lalli also has apparently unique experience from being inside another person's mind, which may prove important too.

Exorcising Ensi:
I agree that Ensi is beyond salvage in the sense that is meant on the Kade infopage where it talks about emergency exorcism. But, we still don't know what happens to the bodies of the possessed mages. So the emergency exorcism could apply to a situation where the mage's body is still viable and if it succeeded, the mage could be free and go on living. This is of course pure speculation. If it means this, then the case of releasing a mage's spirit from the Kade and letting it go to its normal death (move to Tuonela) could still be possible after a longer time. Based on what Onni bargained with the Swan, this appears to be the goal he's after in any case.

I too would love to see a proper story of the various souls within the Kade, but I'm afraid that will not be forthcoming. At least not from Minna, like Vulpes pointed out. But of course we can still hope! And imagine.

A bit of information about the Kade Minna mentioned in a stream, under cut in case someone doesn't want to know as it may or may not prove slightly spoilerific, although it's about something we have already theorized about before:

Spoiler: Kade • show

We asked Minna whether the Kade has an actual physical form, and she said it varies. It can take a more corporeal form, or it can be in a spirit form. However the spirit also exists in time and space, i.e. is in a specific location at any given time. But it "won't walk into a doorframe or anything like that". So, the black vortex we've seen definitely was the Kade, and I think the Blighthouse is the Kade as well.

[Róisín]

The tale of the souls within the Kade would provide a nice theme for the fanfic writers?

[thorny]

I agree that Ensi is beyond salvage in the sense that is meant on the Kade infopage where it talks about emergency exorcism. But, we still don't know what happens to the bodies of the possessed mages. So the emergency exorcism could apply to a situation where the mage's body is still viable and if it succeeded, the mage could be free and go on living. This is of course pure speculation. If it means this, then the case of releasing a mage's spirit from the Kade and letting it go to its normal death (move to Tuonela) could still be possible after a longer time. Based on what Onni bargained with the Swan, this appears to be the goal he's after in any case.

Yes, that's the impression I've got: that it's too late to save Ensi alive, and that Onni isn't trying to do that; but that it's still possible to save her soul so she can properly finish dying and go to Tuonela - he tells the Swan that Ensi's missing, and the Swan says two souls are expected to be remitted to Tuonela, one of them being Tuuri and the other being either Ensi, if Onni succeeds, or Onni if he fails.

(Which implies that if Onni succeeds he'll live, come to think of it; though I don't think it guarantees that.)

Note the possible precedent of the people Pastor Ann saved, after a much longer period of time -- they didn't come back to life! but they died properly, and, having been Christian, went to their proper Christian afterlife.

I too would love to see a proper story of the various souls within the Kade, but I'm afraid that will not be forthcoming. At least not from Minna

The tale of the souls within the Kade would provide a nice theme for the fanfic writers?

Indeed. It seems unlikely Minna will write it; but maybe others will.

Minna might provide some further evidence to work from, depending on what she does with the rest of this story.