Poll

What do you think the state of things is beyond Scandinavia?

More of the Silent World: Trolls, beasts and giants everywhere
7 (16.7%)
A few groups of humans, but mostly wilderness
14 (33.3%)
USA and other superpowers are relatively intact
0 (0%)
Scorched Earth: nothing, not even grosslings, is alive
0 (0%)
Plenty of places like Scandinavia, but isolated
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Voting closed: July 03, 2015, 03:28:37 PM

Author Topic: Survivor communities outside the known world  (Read 257556 times)

Superdark33

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1005 on: July 07, 2016, 12:47:55 AM »
Yup, no survival unless excessive use of heavy/nuclear bombs and atrocities in general.


And even then, its not a happy-cooperativy world either: the groups hate one another as well and they fight each other.

So yes, screwed one way or the other :P
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Jethan

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1006 on: July 07, 2016, 01:05:35 AM »
Yup, no survival unless excessive use of heavy/nuclear bombs and atrocities in general.


And even then, its not a happy-cooperativy world either: the groups hate one another as well and they fight each other.

So yes, screwed one way or the other :P

I wonder if radiation would mutate trolls even more or kill them.  I'm highly interested in what fantasy elements you have thought up for it.  Don't know if I'd want to read all of it if it's super dark, real news is dark enough.  :-\
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1007 on: July 07, 2016, 11:44:02 AM »
Oooohooooo! I like what I'm reading and I'm glad to see that this thread is kicking off. So we have some ideas for Siberia, Russia, Japan, Tasmania, the middle east, USA, and Canada. Not too shabby ^_^ Purple Wyrm, do you think you could link that fic here as well? Heh, well you obviously had a few ideas bubbling about :) Yuu Nice to hear your library is re-opening and we can see some more ideas coming soon hopefully. I know very little about native American magic systems and would be fascinated with anything you could show in that regard :)



Sounds interesting,  Gwenno! What do you think? Revival of pre- or post-WW2 bushido? Would they use more specific names for beasts and trolls based on the many, many creatures from folklore? I can definitely see the potential for Kappa there!
(If you want me to join in with asking weird questions, feel free to tell me which ones and I'll make an effort)
If I'm going to imagine a post apocalyptic Japan there's no way I'm not going to involve ninjas, samurai and the whole shebang from pre WW2 Japan :P You know more than me about the role of cats in Japanese mythology, do you think you can work with anything there?
Anyway, some head cannons from today at work

1) Surviving communities are located on the mountains and small islands where settlements can be better protected.
2) Martial arts are compulsory. As man made defences can be easily destroyed by earthquakes (and grosslings woken up at the same time), it is important that everyone is able to defend themselves and their home to some degree.
3) Those particularly proficient will be given jobs as scouts, following some rather cliche ninja tropes (<3 ninjas <3 )
4) Communication between settlements is very difficult, and rather than rely on frequent trade, they need to become largely self sufficient. Hawks are trained to sent messages and hunt smaller grosslings
5) There are many examples of magic in Japanese folklore which I'd love to use, but I'll need to do some more research for now. I definitely want mages to be able to repel rodent beasts with pictures of cats as per "the boy who drew cats" .
6) The east coast (Tokyo down to Osaka) is home to the country's largest giant. It is a huge mess of infected people bigger than a house. It hides underwater by day (due to it's size), and roams the streets after dark. It is known as "Godzilla", a reference few alive now understand :P

I've been thinking of monsters too, but have only drawn one
Spoiler: kappa • show

In Japan it is a custom for people to visit hot springs known as 'onsen'. Even today, people consider them healing places, and go there in the hopes of retaining good health and recovering from illnesses. When the rash broke out, and nothing seemed to work to help it, some people turned to natural 'onsen' in the hopes of a cure.... and it did help, at least a little. When people were in the water the rash didn't burn. As soon as they tried to leave however the pain would flare up again tenfold, and they would double back into the water. They stayed in these hot springs, and the rash transformed them. The form they have now still can't bear to be away from water for long, and to accommodate for this patches of swollen flesh on the back, neck and head retain water. Some moved from the natural hot springs to rivers and lakes in the following years as they started craving sustenance, and they now drown anyone who gets too close. There is in fact one onsen which cures the rash disease (apparently), but it is up in the mountains, and the journey there is almost certain death after earthquakes and relocated monstrosities made the paths perilous.
Here is my kappa ^_^

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ruth

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1008 on: July 07, 2016, 11:58:46 AM »
Did someone say post-rash Japan? I think someone said post-rash Japan.



SSSS · 日本 by ruthszulc, on Flickr

here's my take on japan! keep in mind this is just one way it might pan out, and i've been somewhat harsher than most as far as population and cleansed land are concerned for the sake of a different kind of story. either way, feedback and critique is definitely appreciated!



it would be easy to see the statistics and think that japan, among all the nations to survive the rash, is among the more fortunate. while less than 2% of their population has survived the ravages of the deadliest disease that has ever struck humankind (to say nothing of other mammals), the large majority of japan's northern island, hokkaidou, has remained pristine and untouched by the hideous monsters created by the rash. but scratch deeper than surface level and darker truths emerge of the survival of the country.

it begins with the system of government. while the nation of japan before the fall ranked among the world's most prominent democracies, the people who live on its soil today are by no means free. there are some vague gestures at the system, of course; it is hard to revoke a right that has already been granted, after all, but the people's advisory council is widely understood to be powerless compared to the real source of power: the daimyou, and above all the shougun.

japan was the first nation to seal off its borders after news of the rash became public. japan soon found, though, that even as they escaped the first pass of rapidly escalating chaos of the disease, their problems would not be solved with this unilateral act. the most pressing, and most dire situation, was the state of their food supply. on a caloric basis, japan was roughly 40% self-sufficient. and as the months dragged on, even with brutal rationing, millions began the slow, agonizing process of starvation. but this, the japanese would soon find, would be the most merciful part of the long dark period of their nation.

in march 2015, with the nation in the throes of the greatest famine in its history, dozens of whaling vessels left port, intent on bringing back as much as they could carry, to feed the nation with whatever they could. what they encountered in the open sea, however, were not whales but something entirely different. though one was brought on board to attempt to identify it, it was quickly determined that the mutated, deformed creatures were simply not edible. starving, isolated, and entering a desperate stage of disconnection from reality, the whalers did not make the connection between the deformed whales and the rash that had covered the planet in its entirety. the sailor generally identified as japanese patient zero (JP0) visited tokyo four days later, and the inevitable fall began.

by the time the national government realized what had happened, establishing a quarantine cordon around tokyo was impossible. hundreds of thousands of people were dying every day, if not from the rash illness, then from the famine that became even more entrenched as communication and transportation of food between different areas became impossible. it grew so desperate that the governor of the most isolated northern prefecture, hokkaidou, shut down all traffic into the province and established a strict quarantine zone in the densely-populated capital, sapporo, and the southern port town hakodate, and not a moment too soon: though isolated cases would crop up in the countryside, the most severe outbreaks were held to sapporo and hakodate.

however, the aftereffects of this absolute seclusion, within the boundaries of the two quarantine zones, were nothing short of disastrous. cut off from all outside food, and with the self-defence force soldiers shooting any attempting to escape, more than two million died in what would later come to be known as the "sacrifice zones." the government ordered the total razing of sapporo and hakodate, and though they likely saved the rest of the island from infection, their tenuous authority crumbled as the populace became aware of the scorched-earth techniques used. an alternative provisional government based in asahikawa, supported by a large contingent of disgruntled SDF soldiers and—most importantly—makiko sen, a descendant of emperor taishou and distant member of the royal family, organized a largely bloodless coup, declaring sen empress and assuming responsibility of what is, for all they know, the last remaining safe area on earth.

having the legitimacy of someone on the chrysanthemum throne is an immense psychological boost for a population desperately needing something to cling to, and through this the new provisional government of asahikawa is granted sweeping powers to allow it to begin the slow process of reorganizing japan to survive and sustain itself. however, the immense centralized power of the new government starts to show signs of totalitarianism. armed with the impeccable credentials of restoring the monarchy, few are able to stand in its way as rights and freedoms are slowly rolled back to make way for aggressive de-industrialization, and a return to immense investment in agriculture. those with money and power are able to consolidate it, and those without slide inexorably into what is really a glorified neo-feudal society. it takes some time, but eventually even the government comes clean, adopting the archaic terms of medieval japan to describe their new state. the military junta is headed by the seii taishougun, the commander of the japanese self-defence force and overlord of the ten daimyou, who each rule over a fief contiguous with the old pre-meiji provinces.

though much of the technology of the modern world remains, many of the ideas have been cast aside to make way for the new order. the nation has returned to the old policy of sakokuron, or "isolation doctrine," which prohibits any outsider from landing in japan and prohibits any citizen from leaving. with the abbreviation of the country to the northern island, with the exception of a small military base in mutsu, everyone beyond the tsugaru strait separating hokkaidou from honshuu (the main island), is unwelcome in the empire of japan. a small class of military nobility known as bushi or samurai enforced the social contract, swearing loyalty to a daimyou. while the weapon of a samurai today is a rifle rather than a longsword, there are many eerie parallels with the japan of hundreds of years ago, and the idea that all people are equal has long since given way to the notion that everyone has a given place in society. if you're one of the common folk in year 90, it probably isn't a great living. but the harsh, stark decisions made by the asahi shougunate have also made japan one of the safest havens in the world from the rash.
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Róisín

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1009 on: July 07, 2016, 06:01:00 PM »
That's a clever take on the Kappa. The original in folklore, as shown in the drawings, looks something like a cross between a European Näkki and a giant salamander. The giant salamanders were probably responsible for at least some the the killings attributed to Kappas - they are quite big enough, and frequent the sort of clear shallow waters where one might let a child play. Scary stuff.
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1010 on: July 07, 2016, 06:19:29 PM »
Hey, nice work. The return to feudalism is a pretty interesting aspect of it. I always assumed a post-rash Japan would end up becoming a republic, but with Japan's conservative, and rather authoritarian social norms, I can definitely see the neo-feudalism thing happening.

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1011 on: July 07, 2016, 07:56:59 PM »
Purple Wyrm, do you think you could link that fic here as well?

Here you go (this is the Revised Edition on my blog :) ). I keep meaning to create AO3 account to make it a bit more accessible.

4) Communication between settlements is very difficult, and rather than rely on frequent trade, they need to become largely self sufficient. Hawks are trained to sent messages and hunt smaller grosslings

For some reason I had a sudden vision of Japanese settlements communicating by heliographs.

6) The east coast (Tokyo down to Osaka) is home to the country's largest giant. It is a huge mess of infected people bigger than a house. It hides underwater by day (due to it's size), and roams the streets after dark. It is known as "Godzilla", a reference few alive now understand :P

I'm sure you mean 'Gojira' ;D

The Kappa is excellent!
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Róisín

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1012 on: July 07, 2016, 08:09:26 PM »
Wyrm,  that was funny! You should get an AO3 account!
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1013 on: July 08, 2016, 07:37:05 AM »
Siberia, yes! Although Hungary would be among the first countries to completly trollify/perish, it would be nice if at least one uralic language survived - so I play with the idea of a small group of Khanty people in western Siberia (well, they're already small in numbers... :/)
Maybe some other people of the same area would survive too (mostly Russians); but Khantys would beleive those were their gods and spirits who kept alive everyone. Russians would roll an eye at this idea.
They would hunt down infected bears and alter the bear rituals a bit, so the spirit of the bear would enter the other world healthy and it would reincarnate as an immune animal.

I might develop this idea further  :)
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Mayabird

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1014 on: July 08, 2016, 10:06:58 AM »
There were new gods, and before them old gods.  Before them, there were elder gods, and before them there were the ancient gods, and so on through the ages, back to when the world was young and fresh, unknown and frightening, in the eyes of a new species of primate.  They spread north and west and east, further and further, beyond lands of ancestors swept aside in the new tide into ones entirely new, strange and wonderful, lands viewed by these new beings capable of experiencing and comprehending novelty and awe.  In those ages the First Gods were brought into being, nameless spirits of land and sky and nature and inscrutable fate.  These were not the weaker, limited, constrained, anthromorphized gods of far future times, constricted by their names and roles and turned into humans made large, sitting on clouds, their powers sapped and used for mundane tasks.  They simply were, and were in

When some the first seafarers (who gave themselves names, but did not give names to their groups - call them the People), traveling on bits of wood across the endless waters, reached an isolated but verdant island (which they did not name either, but simply thought of us the Land until they became so used to them that it simply was), there became a god who was and was in the island and fish-filled seas around.  A tropical paradise, all that the small group of People and their descendants would need in perpetuity, where each day and lifetime could blend into the next, and time could become blurred and confused and endless.  And so the god could see past, present, and future, mixed together.  When life was often inexplicable and without understanding, so too were the gods, back in those times.  In the far, far future were dangers and terrors beyond imagining.  But what was the future when all time was the same?  There were dangers beyond the Land, dangers to the People.  The only recourse was to hide, to stay, to fight.  The First Gods did not give commandments, could not give orders, but this one, in exchange that it might exist for tens of thousands of years, long after all the other First Gods would fake and perish and melt away into newer gods - this one could give a warning.

The Beyond, the Outside, was bad.  It was death and fear and plague and evil.  Fight it, and drive it off, forever.

So they did.

Legends grew about the island of people who killed anyone who came too near, without exception.  Myths spread about the savage cannibals, though the People did not eat those they slayed and simply buried the bodies on the shore, to keep the disease of Beyond at bay.  For a short time, the Land was called North Sentinel Island, and the People the Sentinelese by ones Beyond.  The People were not swept away by future waves of people, nor destroyed by colonization as were their long-separated relatives.  They fought fiercely, keeping the world at bay, not flinching in their duty even as the attempted invasions became more and more strange, as shining birds of hardened stone flew over and new strange lights began to move quickly among the stars.

When the Rash came, and swept away so many of the other peoples as they had once swept across the land and swept away prior peoples, the old power before magic was still on the Land.  A few, very few fools from Beyond attempted to crash on the Land to escape the Rash, unknowingly bringing it with them, but they were shot by arrows at a distance and the Land was kept safe.  Strange new monsters began to roam the waters beyond the reefs of the Land, but the old power of protection, forged from tens of thousands of years of defense, keep most of them away.  For those few monsters that stray too close - the People reserve their precious steel-tipped arrows and spears, made from bits of hacked-off boats, for those. 

Róisín

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1015 on: July 08, 2016, 10:43:31 AM »
Mayabird, I hope you intend to write this? Preferably in several chapters!
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1016 on: July 08, 2016, 11:16:13 AM »
Did someone say post-rash Japan? I think someone said post-rash Japan.


*squeeeeeeee*
Many many head cannons accepted  ;D Although, having lived in a fairly mountainous area of Japan I'd like to think that there would be regions beyond Hokkaido with stable surviving populations. Hokkaido isn't as rural as people make it out to be (having lived there for three months I should know), and there are many other prefectures which are far more isolated, although I think Hokkaido has the coldest winters. Hokkaido does have the advantage of being the source of most of Japan's home grown food however, and if the population was cut off from Honshu I could see it being almost self sufficient food-wise, whereas the other areas I'd consider saveable don't have a lot of defendable agricultural land. This could cause a difference in governance in Hokkaido and the settlements down south seeing as the shogunate originally accumulated power by owning more food growing land waaaaaay back in time. I'd like to think that the main island of Honshu, rather than being ruled under a central power would be a scattering of clans too far separated to rule over efficiently with the technology at hand.

Anyway, the fact that you're putting the new shogunate in Asahikawa gives a lot of cool potential though, as it's at the outskirts of the Daisetsu mountain range, which has a lot of spiritual significance in both Ainu and later Shinto religions, therefore any magic re-discovered could have three routes to stem from (Bhudism (which is everywhere anyway), Shinto and Ainu). Tying in with Helia's mention of religious bear hunts, the Ainu also have a bear hunting ritual which was a very central part of their culture which follows along a similar theme of releasing the bear's spirit so it can be reborn again (will need to do some more research).

I also freaking love the parallels with Japan's historical closing of it's borders and the post rash closing of it's borders ^_^


That's a clever take on the Kappa. The original in folklore, as shown in the drawings, looks something like a cross between a European Näkki and a giant salamander. The giant salamanders were probably responsible for at least some the the killings attributed to Kappas - they are quite big enough, and frequent the sort of clear shallow waters where one might let a child play. Scary stuff.

Hmmmm, I've never considered it to look like the giant salamander, many of the features seem purposefully turtle-like to me, but I definitely see a resemblance to the Näkki in both appearance and behaviour! The traditional Kappa features I tried to copy for my take were the turtle shell (made up of scale-like scabs from the rash on the back), webbed toes and hands, and child-like proportions from a swollen head (and also a beak and flattened top of the skull from rash-induced warping to retain water better). Here are some of the pictures I used as references when trying to think up what to do ^_^
Spoiler: Kappa pics • show


Here you go (this is the Revised Edition on my blog :) ). I keep meaning to create AO3 account to make it a bit more accessible.

For some reason I had a sudden vision of Japanese settlements communicating by heliographs.

I'm sure you mean 'Gojira' ;D

The Kappa is excellent!
Hahah, that's some excellent linguistic mess-up shenanegans you have happening there :P It's exactly how I'd imagine a meeting of foreign countries to go communication-wise, although fair play to them, they were definitely trying. Fun stuff  ;D

I'm also envisioning a "clacks"-like system such as Discworld between settlements now thanks to the heliograph suggestion :P Not too sure how it would work logistically, but it could probably be doable

Helia - please do develop it further! It sounds like you have a really good seed for a story there ^_^ What do you think the Khantys would possess, and what kind of monsters would their beliefs produce?

Mayabird - Oh my gosh, I remember learning about them at uni, but hadn't given any thought to it related to their isolation as the world succumbed to rash! That's such a creative idea, and so different from all the other places where the people would have to adapt to what was happening in the rest of the world. This is almost business as usual, and the old power before magic is such a compelling idea. I second Róisín that I'd love to see this explored further!
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Mayabird

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1017 on: July 08, 2016, 11:23:30 AM »
That...actually was it.  I don't know if I could get several chapters out of it.  Just figured that with an island of people who have been self-isolated for upwards of 60,000 years, if there was any place that still had the really old magic and really old gods that could kinda protect them when the magic came back, that would be it.  Don't know how much I could actually write about people about whom so little is known, mostly from aerial surveys that are shot at and Triloknath Pandit, the one ludicrously brave anthropologist who managed to get himself allowed on the islands for a short while.  He didn't have time to figure out their language so no idea what they call themselves and so forth.  Pandit did notice they didn't have any shamans or witch-doctor types though and didn't appear to actually do any magic sorts of rituals.  If there was magic, it would have to be very subtle, probably built into the environment.  Could be very powerful, but in the ways that geologic forces are very powerful; usually slow so we don't notice, but when something does happen people just have to deal with it. 

As for the speculation about not giving themselves a group name or the island a name - the Basque people (who appear to be of deep antiquity themselves, though not to the Sentinelese depths) technically don't have a name for themselves.  The closest equivalent is Euskaldunak, which means "speakers of Euskara," their language.  No one knows what the ancient Minoans of Crete called themselves (all the names for them were from other nations) and it's possible they just didn't either.  If there were barely them-s to contrast with us-es, would folks even think about it?  Too many other things to worry about for survival in a new location - hey is this plant useful OW OW IT STINGS. 

ruth

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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1018 on: July 08, 2016, 08:07:46 PM »
*squeeeeeeee*
Many many head cannons accepted  ;D Although, having lived in a fairly mountainous area of Japan I'd like to think that there would be regions beyond Hokkaido with stable surviving populations. Hokkaido isn't as rural as people make it out to be (having lived there for three months I should know), and there are many other prefectures which are far more isolated, although I think Hokkaido has the coldest winters. Hokkaido does have the advantage of being the source of most of Japan's home grown food however, and if the population was cut off from Honshu I could see it being almost self sufficient food-wise, whereas the other areas I'd consider saveable don't have a lot of defendable agricultural land. This could cause a difference in governance in Hokkaido and the settlements down south seeing as the shogunate originally accumulated power by owning more food growing land waaaaaay back in time. I'd like to think that the main island of Honshu, rather than being ruled under a central power would be a scattering of clans too far separated to rule over efficiently with the technology at hand.

Anyway, the fact that you're putting the new shogunate in Asahikawa gives a lot of cool potential though, as it's at the outskirts of the Daisetsu mountain range, which has a lot of spiritual significance in both Ainu and later Shinto religions, therefore any magic re-discovered could have three routes to stem from (Bhudism (which is everywhere anyway), Shinto and Ainu). Tying in with Helia's mention of religious bear hunts, the Ainu also have a bear hunting ritual which was a very central part of their culture which follows along a similar theme of releasing the bear's spirit so it can be reborn again (will need to do some more research).

I also freaking love the parallels with Japan's historical closing of it's borders and the post rash closing of it's borders ^_^

I actually do agree that there would be surviving communities in Honshu—but in this world, Hokkaido would decline to acknowledge their existence, deciding everything to the south is unsalvageably contaminated. The survivors to the south could organize themselves along something like the Nakasendō Road, a medieval trade route (much like the better known Tokaidō) through the central mountains of Japan that had ryokan at one days' walk from each other. Here, the spacing would be ideal to allow people to travel in the safety of the daytime through the silent lands, stopping along little fortified inns until they reached the larger settlements.

Your suggestions for the religious significance of Asahikawa are also awesome! I don't know a great deal about Japanese spirituality and religion, but if I remember correctly, there's a great emphasis placed on purity in Shinto, which seems quite apt to deal with the disease.
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Re: Survivor communities outside the known world
« Reply #1019 on: July 08, 2016, 10:31:39 PM »
I've actually been doing a lot of thinking about Michigan's upper peninsula. First of all, there's a lot of Finnish-Americans living in Michigan's upper peninsula to the point of where I had a few friends up there who'd sometimes speak Finnish with their families, there's this map I came across on tumblr showing the concentration of Finnish-Americans in the U.S. aaaaand as you can see there's quite a bit in the U.P. so maybe we'd get a few Finnish mages in the U.P.

The thing is that there's also a lot of Native Americans in the U.P., or at least a higher concentration of Native Americans than a lot of other places in the U.S. so we'd get probably quite a few Native American mages as well. We also have a lot of people of mixed heritage of both Finnish and Native American so I wonder if we'd get mages whose magic is a blend of the two ? Also, word of god did confirm that the actual Finnish mages in Finland need proximity to their gods so I don't know how that would work for the Finnish-American mages in the U.P. Maybe they'd worship the local Native American spirits and deities but still have influences of Finnish stuff in their magic and general lifestyle ?

I'm also positive that the U.P. would do extremely well in the event of the rash happening for the same reason the Nordic countries did alright. The U.P. is far north, it's cold and snowy, there's a very low population and concentration of people, and there's plenty of forests and mountains. If nothing else people would probably do what my plan would be in the event of some apocalypse thing and hide out on some island in Lake Superior. It's the largest fresh water lake in the world as far as surface area goes, that's prime real estate to exploit if the world's ending  :P


Native: :usa:
I guess I'm pretty okay :france: :southkorea:
Learning: :finland: :arableague: :sign: