TV and Movie Thread

[RanVor]

Well, I suppose it depends on the new main director and how they handle it. I would trust the Russos to get her right, but now that they're gone from the MCU, I'm not so sure. Captain Marvel seems to be a pretty tough character to write properly, and whoever takes the reins might not be up to the task.

We'll see.

[ILoveMySocksAndSweater]

okay, so the thing about captain marvel is I had a lot of issues with her when she first appeared. I thought she was way to overpowered, lacking a personality, and generally boring. I like her much better in this movie because of two things. The first being she got rid of the  s t u p i d  hair (my personal opinion) and got a wat better haircut and I was less distracted looking at her. The second being that they established that she has better things to do than protect earth and bigger issues to deal with in space. It makes her feel a little less overpowered when I know she has bigger, harder, issues to take care of. That's a little bit of why I like her a little more.

[Windfighter]

I am very disappointed in Tony's death, but at least he got his happy ending. Somewhat. yeah, I'm gonna need to write some fix-it fics for this. (I mean there already is like 50 fix-it fics but 10 more doesn't hurt anyone, right?)

I wouldn't go as far as saying I predicted stuff but... heh, thanks

I am disappointed in Steve's ending as well. I mean urgh, okay, it wasn't all that surprising and it made perfect sense but #Give Captain America a boyfriend already. Preferable Tony, but I also accept Bucky or Sam.

I... don't really get why Bucky was all sad during Tony's funeral, honestly??? like what? They had only exchanged like 2 words and then tried to kill each other anyway???

Anyway I cried a lot during the movie and I laughed a lot and oh my gods Thor was the best!
Friend and I are looking forward to him finding Loki again in Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (which probably won't happen but eh). "He's been dead before."

Also I freaking knew Sam was gonna take over the shield after Cap! I am so happy I got that detail right in "Shut up and dance with me". I am the best! I'm not sure how the shield is gonna work with Sam's flying fighting-style but I'm sure he'll figure it out somehow!


All in all very good movie. Got very angry at Nebula when she grabbed her head instead of pressing the button but eh, if she hadn't the final battle wouldn't have happened so... no wait, that's why I'm mad at her. I mean understandable but still mad.


Edit:
Oh, and Clint and Natasha fighting about who of them would die! I just wanted to grab Clint and yell at him because he was fighting to get his family back and Natasha doesn't have any family except for the other Avengers so she was fighting for them to get their loved ones back and why couldn't he understand that? I was still very sad that one of them had to die though ;_; (I understand where Clint was coming from as well but still!)

[ILoveMySocksAndSweater]

Anyway I cried a lot during the movie and I laughed a lot and oh my gods Thor was the best!
Friend and I are looking forward to him finding Loki again in Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (which probably won't happen but eh). "He's been dead before."

Thank you for saying this bc I wholeheartedly agree! I mean Loki did end up getting the tesseract (however that's spelled), right?

[Windfighter]

Oh also? Peter and Tony's hug. I may or may not have squeed out loud at that!

And then Tony had to go and die and Peter lost yet another father figured and I'm sad for that too ;_;

And when Morgan said she wanted a cheeseburger I just... I died again >:

There was a lot of me dying during that movie. I want to watch it again

[Windfighter]

Just learned that I am Thanos:

[Windfighter]

Apparently Steve's ending is justified with "This concludes Steve's arc of going from a selfless GOD to a selfish HUMAN" and first of all screw them and second of all Steve Rogers was always a selfish little b****, but in true american fashion he could hide it by shouting "For 'murica!"

Steve "I can do this all day" Rogers only ever wanted to prove himself. It was never about protecting the little guy, but always about proving he didn't need Bucky to protect him. If he truly wanted to protect those who couldn't protect themselves there were so many other things he could have choosen to do instead of lying to get into a war where everyone would have to protect him because there was no way he was gonna be able to protect himself and the only reason he was still alive was because Bucky had always had his back.
When presented with the choices of helping science help the country or tricking the americans into thinking the war was honorable he choose the option that brought him fame and dames. He completely ignored the third option, the one where he just plain out stated "You gave me these abilities to fight the war and protect the little guys and that's what I'm going to do and at this point you can no longer stop me" because seriously they wouldn't have been able to. That option didn't plop up until, once again, he was given a selfish reason to do it - get his only friend back and impress his love interest.

The serum enhanced all parts of him - even the selfishness. This is why he got more and more visibly selfish throughout the movies to the point where he made the most selfish choice of them all - leave the person who was depending on him, for whom he was a lifeline, just so he could pursue his own happiness despite the happiness that person had made for themselves without him. Peggy had gotten a husband and kids and had lived a happy life and Steve "you're not the one to make the sacrifice play" Rogers decided that his happiness was more important than both hers and Bucky's.

Steve Rogers was never worthy of wielding Mjölnir (I mean okay I loved that scene but just no) and all of his arc had been about him being a selfish person and I think that's part of why his ending felt so unsatisfying to me. I wanted to see him become the man who would choose to lay down on the wire, not because he had something to prove but because he wanted to protect the little guy.

Rant over and Windy out.

(On the flip-side Tony's ending was unsatisfying because all through his arc he had fought to gain happiness and then, when he finally had it within his grasp, he died.)

[Oripoke]

I just got back from the theater after having avoided spoilers (other than some very basic stuff like "there's time travel" and "Tony says 'I am Iron Man'"). And boy oh boy I have FEELINGS.

All in all, I thought it was a fun film and a great sendoff to a decade of investment in these characters' stories. RDJ and Chris Evans are freed from their acting contracts! And all it took was a bit of time travel and assembling all 6 infinity stones.

Hawkeye was my favorite part of the movie, probably. Now, I don't really know how he went from family man to morally-gray vigilante assassin, and I don't know if the random scene in Tokyo where he murders a bunch of yakuza with a samurai sword was necessary, per se, but goddamn if it wasn't cool as hell.

There were also some great moments when the Avengers are back in New York City during the events of Avengers 1. The shenanigans in the Tower were particularly funny. ("That's America's ass.")

Loki's definitely alive. No way he didn't get away somehow. Yes, he died onscreen in Infinity War, but he's been dead before and he has a tendency to get better. He'll probably cameo in Guardians Vol.3.

I do have one major gripe though. In the end, when everybody comes back... the un-snapped people should be 5 years older than the snapped people. We saw that with Ant-Man reuniting with his daughter who is now a teenager. But instead, we see Peter reuniting with his friends in high school and they're all the same age, ie, not snapped. If you're gonna have time travel relativity bullshit, then commit, goddangit! (Who's salty? Not me. Certainly not.)

8/10 would shill out collectively $100s of dollars and get invested in a dozen superhero backstories again.

[Windfighter]

Apparently all of Peter's classmates got snapped, is why they're all the same age. They explained that in some interview which I admittedly haven't read in full because it only made me angry at them xD

Hawkeye has always been an assassin, and then spent the last few years being an avenger, so it's not completely out of the question that seeing his family get snapped pushed him into "my family was nice people and if they had to die from the snap so should the evil mafia-people and I'm gonna make sure they do".
I generally love Hawkeye so I'm really glad we got to see more of him, although it broke my heart that we had to wtness him being forced to sacrifice his best friend ,_, For all I whine about how he should have just let her make that sacrifice it was still a very painful scene >:

I'm sad that we didn't get to see the scene were Steve returned the soulstone, it would have been great to see him come face to face with his first nemesis again.

RDJ was apparently torn over having to say goodbye to Iron Man, but Chris wanted to move on, so I guess that's why they made Steve retire the way he did. But what do I know, I've only actually seen the tea on tumblr.

Also the line "I love you 3000" is from RDJ's kiddos and I just hnnn.... of course the most memorable line of the movie is something he brought to it. Of course.


Edit: Also, I have to admit that when we first got to the scene with the yakuza I was like "Why is Deadpool in this story suddenly". Felt pretty stupid when two seconds later I realized it was Hawkeye

[Windfighter]

I saw a post on tumblr that broke me and I don't want to suffer alone so here:


source

[ILoveMySocksAndSweater]

okay so mostly in response to windy's beautiful rant (preach it windy!)

I was having a pretty interesting discussion about what it means to be selfish and it's implications. I believe that as an individual it is perfectly fine to be 'selfish' because the societal expectation that being selfless makes you a good person is completely false. Yes, you should care and take care of other people if that is within your ability (I'll touch back on this in a moment) but if you just want to live your own life and you don't have a desire to act for a cause you truly aren't devoted to, don't be 'selfless.' At the end of the day, a 'selfless' act usually is 'selfish' because you are always getting something in return, whether it be a good feeling or the safety of something you'd like to protect it's still benefiting you somehow in the end. Being selfish, while not always a negative thing, can still be a negative thing once a certain line is crossed. That line would be your selfishness almost directly negatively affecting others. Lastly, if you are capable of helping others while still being able to feel fulfilled then you should help others.

Another thing, under the definition of a hero, relating to the sort of heroes usually featured in Greek mythology: the epic hero (ex. Perseus, Odysseus, etc.), a hero should be selfless. (selfless being not entirely selfish seeing as those heroes do selfish things within the stories but generally remain selfless by the end.

Now relating everything back to Steve. I'd classify Steve as an epic hero seeing as, as windy said, he is quite god-like. He is an icon to the public as well so, like epic heroes, he should reflect the values of society. -A brief interruption- yes america is a selfish country, but america is not all of society so I will not be using the 'american values' as Steves values, but more of the values that the average person would admire and want to see in a hero.-end of a brief interruption- Steve's decision to go stay back with Peggy was incredibly selfish. Just because Thanos is gone it does not mean that there are no threats left on earth which means that Steve is leaving the earth more vulnerable than it was while he was fighting to protect it. Steve's choice was also a betrayal to his friends who were expecting him to come back as himself. Seeing Steve make this decision felt almost entirely out of character as well because he places so much value in his friends and in his duty to protect people that it seems so unnatural for him to sacrifice everything for one person who he seems to have accepted as someone there to remain in his memories. Steve's decision was very selfish. Steve is not stupid enough to believe that he's vanquished all threats either. One thing all heroes encounter on their journey is temptation, Peggy was Steve's temptation and he failed to resist it. This failure means that Steve's journey will always be incomplete and unsuccessful which it the main reason why seeing this happen left such a bitter taste in all our mouths.

Steve once was a hero and once worth of mjolnir, but he no longer is a hero and no longer worthy.

[RanVor]

I must admit that when I first saw that ending, I didn't know what to think of it. Now, after long deliberations... Well, I'm still not entirely sure, but I might have something to say about it, for better or for worse. Alright, so here comes the counter-rant:

Steve Rogers is not a monument of stone, nor is he one of Stark's automated suits. He's a living human being with feelings, needs and wants. He worked hard for preserving humanity - harder than anyone, in fact. He put his life on the line time and time again because people needed him. He had put others before himself for pretty much all his life, or at least since he was found in the ice. In the end, he made the same decision Thor did - to be who he wanted to be and not who he was expected to be - knowing he leaves the fate of the world in good hands. Because while people would benefit from having him around, they don't really need him, not anymore. Are the Avengers weaker without him? A little, perhaps. Are they incapable of fending off threats? Hardly.

His friends could make him young again, but they won't do it, because they respect his decision. And while I'm sad to know I won't see Captain America again, I believe he has, at last, more than earned his retirement.

[Windfighter]

Captain Ameriva will be back, he'll just be Sam Wilson instead of Steve Rogers

I'm not upset at Steve getting retirement or a happy ending, I'm just upset at how they handled it, and how it basically went "screw Peggy's happy ending, mine is more important".

I mean since he appeared in the original timeline instead of an alternative one we could probably argue that he was her husband all along, but she said herself that her husband was someone Steve saved from Hydra so...
But maybe Steve didn't marry Peggy but some unnamed character and the scene with them dancing was just to throw us off, they later discovered that they didn't work together and he found someone else and that's why he didn't want to talk about them. ...wow I didn't think I could feel more unsatisfied by his ending but now here I am.

Did he deserve a happy ending? Yes, of course
Are the Avengers good without him? yeah, duh, they have Spider-Man
Did he do good stuff? Obviously
Did he have the right to destroy Peggy's future because of that? Heck no and that's what I'm mostly angry at

That and the fact they broke their own carefully set up timetravel laws just to marry him off to Peggy

Also for the comparisation with Thor: Thor decided to be wo he was instead of who he was expected to be, to live in the future, to write his own path and move forward.
Steve decided to become who he used to be, to rewrite someone else's past and move back.
I can understand Steve's decision but it doesn't stop me from being frustrated with it. He had already found one new love interest in the present, why did he suddenly go "nope, I cannae find love in this timeline gotta make my own"?
(the answer to that is apparently "because the audience weren't all over that because they wanted Stucky")

(Also if he married Peggy his whole love affair with Peggy's niece gets slightly squicky as well, not from his pov but from Sharon's and now I'm just so confused at this)
He could have just retired together with Sharon honestly *flops*


Anyway, I like Steve (I like him more in Avengers Assemble than in the MCU though) and I'm not trying to piss on his character or anything. He did good, like Tony he deserved a happy ending and I'm happy he got his happy ending. I'm just upset at how it was executed

[Windfighter]

so aparently

and if even the writers/producers can't decide what actually happened no wonder I'm all confused and frustrated at this

Endgame is just an angsty AU and there is a timeline where Tony and Steve and Natasha are still huge parts of the Avengers and that makes me happy
I am also 100% onboard the headcanon that Noobmaster69=Loki

[Oripoke]

Well, per the time travel rules laid out in Endgame, you can't go back and change the past. When you travel back to a certain point in time, it creates a new reality from that point. So that means that Steve Rogers created a new, alternate timeline where he lived out his life with Peggy. Then, at the end, he came back to the main Avengers timeline to say his goodbyes.