I would have wiSSSShed... what is missing from SSSS?

[tehta]

One other thing: magic has a cost of some sort. Minna did actually confirm that this holds for Icelandic as well as Finnish magic. We don't know how this works, but it would imply a limit on how many functioning runes an Iceladic mage can produce. Perhaps a more permanent rune might have a higher cost?  Or perhaps a mage can be responsible for only so many active runes at once, and has to choose which ones to maintain?

Just dumb ideas, here.

Also, as Roisin said, we do know from books on the runes that in many cases just having a drawn rune doesn't produce the desired effect: one also has to use a spell, which can have a limited duration. I am not sure whether a rune can be reused for many spells, but I find it amusing to imagine that Iceland has 'public runes' that can be used by any mage to cast their spells. Even runes of 'finding your way' carved on rocks in places where people get lost a lot, that sort of thing.

[Jitter]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m thinking, that the magic will somehow wear off or dissipate. Which will limit the usefulness and certainly put a stop at exports. If they were permanent, enough of them would have ended to the heathens within the 90 years.

Although, maybe the immunity test is magica? And imported from Iceland? Say a testing strip which actually has a tiny stave in it between layers of paper so that a color effect is created when testing with immune / non immune blood. It is something quick and easy to use (says Minna), and hopefully it’s not dangerous to non-immunes. Considering how limited their knowledge of the pathogen still appears to be, magic could well be needed for such a test. And the manufacturer wouldn’t need to soell out what is the active ingredient (This doesn’t contradict with the limited lifespan of staves, as medical tests would also have a limited period of usability even if they were purely chemical).

[dmeck7755]

Although, maybe the immunity test is magica?

In my thoughts, because everyone gets tested for immunity, it has to be easy and able to be done anywhere.  So i thought an immunity test would be a bit like blood typing.  You just need a reagent.  You could get that from a known immune person.  If it clumps you are non-immune.

The reverse could be true to. 

Or essence of troll (clump immune, no clump non-immune or any way you want it.)

[Jitter]

Exactly! I’m suggesting the “reagent” is a slip of paper, like the slips used for urine testing for various things. Or the slip inside a Covid home test kit. No one needed to know it’s actually a magical rather than a chemical reaction that causes the color change.

[tehta]

Although 'essence of troll' is also an awesome idea. Collecting it would be quite an interesting job!

(Incidentally, the Icelandic rune could easily require 'essence of troll' as its writing medium. Many of the runes get very specific about such ingredients!)

[dmeck7755]

Although 'essence of troll' is also an awesome idea. Collecting it would be quite an interesting job!

Maybe rodent beasts of small things.  Easy to trap easy to kill.  Plus it helps prevent invasion where people live

(Incidentally, the Icelandic rune could easily require 'essence of troll' as its writing medium. Many of the runes get very specific about such ingredients!)

To quote Reynir "eww gross"

[NightMareMage]

I think Finnish magic is maybe a bit underdeveloped while Icelandic magic is definitely underdeveloped.

I think not knowing to much about it in part 1 was fine and actually benefited the story but in part 2 it become a bit of a problem. Having a better idea of what Reynir learned in mage school would of helped but most of it is that we have almost no idea what a military-trained Icelandic mages knows.

That said, I can't think of any way to give readers infomotion on this without derealing the plot. An Info Page could have been given but that may have just been distracting for the audience.

[Jitter]

There was an illustration for the book 3 Kickstarter campaign that shows Reynir holding a galdrastafur made of light between his hands, like he’s about to throw it. So maybe there are some battle staves in existence?

[Róisín]

In our world Icelandic magic there were battle staves, plus spells for protection in battle. There were discussions about it in the Forum, way back. Laufey knew about the subject, and there are lists of such spells in several of the old lore poems.

[tehta]

I think the most famous Icelandic battle-spell would be the Helm of Awe (not a helm, but... something that imbues the bearer with the power to overcome their enemies, possibly by paralyzing them with awe.) The rune Reynir unconsciously projects when attacked by ghosts resembles it a little, to me. At least, more than his anti-ghost rune, or even the lake cows one.
I have seen several other runes that are supposed to grant success in combat, or protection, but nothing that actually attacks (unless you count things like 'this rune will make people vomit', which seems of limited use against trolls).

[Suominoita]

I think Finnish magic is maybe a bit underdeveloped while Icelandic magic is definitely underdeveloped.

I think not knowing to much about it in part 1 was fine and actually benefited the story but in part 2 it become a bit of a problem. Having a better idea of what Reynir learned in mage school would of helped but most of it is that we have almost no idea what a military-trained Icelandic mages knows.

That said, I can't think of any way to give readers infomotion on this without derealing the plot. An Info Page could have been given but that may have just been distracting for the audience.

Well, the info pages are "written by an Icelandic person" and the Finns learn from an older mage in an apprenticeship. The story does show some hints: Language is important part of the spell-work; so is knowledge of the (mythical) origins. Presumably you can find Edda or Kalevala in English somewhere or you just need to bring up your language skills. Not entirely reliable as to the very old ways but I am positive those inspired these magic systems. Including the token bleeding if you die.

[Jitter]

All of Edda and Kalevala are available in Englis, in several translations. Like Suominoita says, the Kalevala at least is not an accurate description of traditions and beliefs at all, but it is based on collected material, amnd is definitely a source that has heavily influenced Minna.

So as far as we know, it may be exactly accurate in the wirld of SSSS. Either because it is a different world where the Kalevala was more accurate to begin with. Or, because the people were using it as source material when magic returned to the world, which resulted to the magic being shaped by their belief.

This also takes Suominoita to citizenship! Cake in the promotion thread!

[Róisín]

Good place to look for English and other language texts of the classic runic poems and Kalevala (as well as my own favourite, the Hávamál) and various actual texts of magic, is Project Gutenberg, an online site for the purpose of making available to the public, freely and legally, out of copyright works worth saving. They can also use volunteers to type such works into their database. A worthy cause as well as a great source of information.

[dreki]

One aspect of seidr, is that Odinn received knowledge of the runes the knowledge by sacrificing his eye and hanging by his foot on Yggrasil for days.

So while in SSSS the way they teach it is the school - there is reason to believe a mage can receive the wisdom in other ways.

Reynir already showed signs of this in adv 1, it may have been a direction for adv 3.

I really wish we could have seen an experienced seidr mage. Either Reynir properly trained or maybe meeting one in Norway.

One other thing: magic has a cost of some sort. Minna did actually confirm that this holds for Icelandic as well as Finnish magic. We don't know how this works, but it would imply a limit on how many functioning runes an Iceladic mage can produce. Perhaps a more permanent rune might have a higher cost?  Or perhaps a mage can be responsible for only so many active runes at once, and has to choose which ones to maintain?

Just dumb ideas, here.

Also, as Roisin said, we do know from books on the runes that in many cases just having a drawn rune doesn't produce the desired effect: one also has to use a spell, which can have a limited duration. I am not sure whether a rune can be reused for many spells, but I find it amusing to imagine that Iceland has 'public runes' that can be used by any mage to cast their spells. Even runes of 'finding your way' carved on rocks in places where people get lost a lot, that sort of thing.

I think that the magic is heavily based on actual folklore - so from my knowledge of Norse runes it would definitely make sense for there to be public runes and things like that. There's a few runes that are found over and over again on stones in Scandinavia.

For the cost - one thing to consider is that ultimately magic comes from the gods, so I think that how much the gods support you/your intention can impact how much cost the human has to pay.

So Reynir I think got a *ton* of support on magic use in adventure 1 because the gods really wanted those ghosts released. He was able to create loads of runes without any seeming difficulty or fatigue -  whereas Lalli, a far more experienced mage, ended up incapacitated twice.

Lalli has no connection to the Norse gods who rule Denmark and I don't think he got as much support as he would have in Finland.

Then Reynir wasn't really as useful in the second adventure. He only, iirc, had one functional rune and it wasn't terribly strong (the "walk around us" for aimless wanderers)

Then the swan definitely supported Lalli and Onni in the second adventure. At the end literally guiding Lalli and Reynir step by step, supporting them throughout the Kade - I imagine that a random mage with no divine support would have a way harder time navigating a Kade.

[Jitter]

Dreki, this makes a lot of sense. Reynir himself seems to be a bit of a blessing (we don’t know, but what with his siblings all being Dagrenning it seems possible he was a pleasant surprise) and I absolutely agree that he’s getting a lot of help from someone!

Funnily enough I never thought about how Lalli is out of his home woods. I’m always been thinking how Onni must be terribly powerful to have called the firebird to appear at such great distance and while he himself was out of Finland. And while thinking all this, I compete failed to consider Lalli’s situation! Thanks for spelling it out for me!

Finnish magic, both in SSSS and what we know about the traditions, usually calls more upon nature spirits existing in the particular location than personified gods, but still the spirits in a weird foreign country must be weird and foreign for Lalli.

In the case of Kade orienteering, I think it needed both Lalli as a Finnish mage to have the Swan come over in the first place, and Reynir who appears to have a knack for finding things. Plus is stupid and / or ignorant enough to follow the Swan of Tuonela, dragging his friend (yes, Lalli, admit it! He is your friend! A stupid and annoying friend is still a friend.) along.