Writing advice

[RanVor]

(I don't know if this thread should go here or to the Academy Board, but this place seems more frequented, so I'll post it here now.)

Many of us here have more-or-less successfully dabbled in writing, and intend to continue doing so. It is a difficult activity, though, sometimes we don't quite know how to approach an issue we have. Or maybe it's just me. Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to ask other writers on the forum for advice on a specific aspect of writing. I decided to create it because I couldn't find an existing thread that would fit. If there is such a thread, someone can always move this post there.

Me creating this thread obviously means that I have a question to ask, so I'll go ahead. I've recently started writing a story with a first-person perspective, and I want to add other PoV characters to it, but I don't know how to handle the switching without causing confusion. How would you do that? Is it better to relegate the other PoVs to separate chapters, or just switch between the scenes?

[tehta]

I absolutely welcome any chance to talk about writing! My stories are generally frivolous, but I do think about technique a lot, and especially about POV issues.

Anyway, I totally see the problem. And, hmm, I think you could get away with switching scene-to-scene, but only if you were very careful about signalling the change of POV. It would help if all the characters had very distinctive inner voices, and I think you would have to spend the first sentence or two subtly making it clear who was talking now. Perhaps dropping in a bit of description of themselves as a character (something like, I don't know, "as a scientist, I immediately saw that blah blah blah" -- very hard to repeatedly do smoothly, I think) as well as exposition that makes it clear the scene has changed, and maybe even that the previous character could not be in the situation we are in now.

To be honest, it sounds like a headache. I would probably do chapter-by-chapter changes to avoid it. (But then, I also love writing within POV limitations, and especially letting the reader understand more than the POV character does, so I would probably find this sort of restriction fun.)

[Jitter]

Ran, to clarify, would everyone of the PoV characters be in first person? I assume so. I changing by chapter is too rarely, maybe it would be helpful to add a marker between scenes when the PoV also changes. Then of course refrain from using them otherwise. I mean like this:

***

New PoV here

[RanVor]

Thank you for your insights so far, they're quite useful!

Some additional clarifications:
- The main character is in first person, the others could be in first or third person, I haven't decided yet (I considered the Guide's model of first-person main chapters and third-person interludes).
- There is at least one instance I can think of where rapid PoV cycling would be very beneficial, but I suppose there are ways around that. There was that one fanfic I read that had three chapters showing one set of events from three different perspectives, which is an interesting alternative to switching multiple times in short succession when it becomes relevant, but can lead to stalling if used too often.
- There are a lot of characters, but not all of them need their own PoVs. Switching PoVs on a scene-by-scene basis would allow me to showcase more viewpoints more often, while chapter-by-chapter would require me to focus on a smaller number of more important characters, but with more in-depth examination. I would also have to think harder about when and how to use the secondary PoVs.
And finally...
- The story I'm talking about is a Code Geass fanfiction, because of course it is, it's not like I write anything else.

[Yastreb]

My Dragonhost Saga (the primary focus of my writing) is mainly in third person, but I'll add my $0.02 worth.

For the most part, when the POV shifts from one character to another within a group, I put in a space. One of the few times I didn't do this was in a combat scene, as I thought it would unduly break up the action.

Moments of introspection or recall are set off by spaces.

When shifting to different groups of characters, I use the same marker as Jitter.

***

[Róisín]

I use a similar style to what Yastreb and Jitter do to indicate a scene break or change of viewpoint, and start a new chapter to suggest a timelapse or a more major break between scenes.

[NightMareMage]

It would be disorienting to have multiple first person perspectives within the same chapter. I don’t think that could work.

I think your choice of first-person POVs and your desire to have multiple perspectives within individual chapters is counterintuitive. At least if all the POV characters are in first person, but maybe it could be pulled off if only one is in first person and the rest are in third.

If you want multiple first-person perspectives, I would recommend having them separated by chapter. If you want to show multiple perspectives within a chapter, I would recommend third person perspectives.

It sounds like your preference is for close perspectives; however, you might also consider having a distant third person perspective. There are lots of reasons not to do that, but it is another thing worth thinking about. It would allow for any character's perspective without it being their own POV.

There is also switching between close third and distant third perspectives, with or without first person perspective in the story.

[RanVor]

It would be disorienting to have multiple first person perspectives within the same chapter. I don’t think that could work.

I think your choice of first-person POVs and your desire to have multiple perspectives within individual chapters is counterintuitive. At least if all the POV characters are in first person, but maybe it could be pulled off if only one is in first person and the rest are in third.

If you want multiple first-person perspectives, I would recommend having them separated by chapter. If you want to show multiple perspectives within a chapter, I would recommend third person perspectives.

It sounds like your preference is for close perspectives; however, you might also consider having a distant third person perspective. There are lots of reasons not to do that, but it is another thing worth thinking about. It would allow for any character's perspective without it being their own POV.

There is also switching between close third and distant third perspectives, with or without first person perspective in the story.

Okay, first of all, this reads to me like you're assuming that I haven't already committed to first person. It is a wrong assumption. At this stage, most of your suggestions are impossible to implement without completely rewriting everything.

The reason I want to have multiple PoVs within a single chapter is that the majority of the things I need another character's perspective for aren't expansive enough to warrant a chapter of their own. Splitting them off would force me to pad the chapters out with a lot of stuff that isn't really relevant to the scene to justify their existence, severely disrupting the flow of the story in the process.

Switching between first person and third person runs into the exact same problem as switching between multiple first person perspectives - there is no immediately obvious way to indicate that the perspective has changed. It's not a solution at all, just a stylistic shift.

Fortunately, I already have a way around that in mind, and I hope to test it out soon.

[angsttronaut]

I've read a few books with multiple POV in the one chapter, I've found it isn't a problem as long as there's a clear scene break between POVs. Doesn't hurt if the voices of each character are particularly distinct too- such as having a quirk with the way they speak or a particular way of looking at thing, though I've found that hard to pull off without it becoming too much.

[thegreyarea]

Sorry for arriving so late! And thanks, Ran, for calling this topic, that I consider very interesting.

I think it's very important for the reader to clearly understand who's "speaking" at each moment, because not having that is perhaps the most irritating  thing that can happen when I'm reading.

Of course there are exceptions. The writer may want to throw a degree of confusion over the reader for some reason.
I can see that being done to portray the madness of a battle, or perhaps when several characters are involved on a heated discussion. However IMHO that "game" will work well only if kept brief. (what's "brief" may be another interesting question...)

I would approach such exceptions with great care, and usually stick with the usual solutions, giving, as other said, some visual clue that a break/change happened.
It can be a space (an empty paragraph), or a symbol (*** or my preferred ---).
Or you can play (really) safe and change voices only when there's a new chapter.

(I hope all this ramble was useful   )