Language learning discussion

[Sc0ut]

Context: out of the several languages I've studied, I only consider myself fluent in English.
For me, fluency means I'm in this thread, on this forum, and am able to talk about anything that comes up with the people here, to the same degree of complexity I would in my native language. If there are any obstacles to understanding others, they are almost always cultural rather than linguistic. I still look up words and expressions almost every day, but most of what I learn now feels like a bonus on top of what I already know, not like a key part of the language that I was missing. They help me express things in a more brief, elegant or convincing way, but I could still say the same thing with different words.

So I guess to me fluency means I feel as free in a foreign language as I am in my native one.

Do you think fluency outside of linguistic immersion is attainable?

I had to google linguistic immersion and there seem to be several meanings of the term and I don't know which one you mean. How is it different from either a foreign language class, or doing your studies in a language that's not your native one? I've experienced both (with English) but I was already fluent when the latter happened.

Was there something that you feel really increased your fluency/brought your language skills to the next level?

Yeah, watching foreign language cartoons without subtitles. Then subtitled movies. Then, movies without subtitles. Playing computer games, using software and (to some degree) programming in that language. I guess the trick with all of these is that they're genuinely interesting, fast paced, and they always have an extra layer of information (visual, auditory, or the game/program doing what you want) that can patch the gaps in your linguistic skills, effectively teaching you things that you never set out to learn deliberately.

I imagine living in a country where the foreign language is spoken is the holy grail of language acquisition, but I haven't had access to that.

What are your goals with your learning language(s)?

I'm not learning any new language at the moment, but perhaps using English to talk to y'all and read stuff online counts to some degree as learning, since I learn new things almost every day At this point I don't have a goal, I'm fine with just reaping the benefits of being fluent for now.

[Suominoita]

I've never been fluent in anything but English, but my middle school Spanish teacher told me something that stuck when I asked what fluency meant. She said that you're probably fluent when two things happen:

• You understand jokes in the language
• You dream in the language

I don't know if anyone else agrees, and I never achieved a high enough level in Spanish to do either of those things, so I can't comment myself. It seemed less like a definition and more like a milestone. Though perhaps that works better, given the nebulous nature of fluency itself.

I agree, it's more of a milestone. Mine is reading a novel in the language, immersed in the story rather than anyhow paying attention to "reading in another language". You just read it for the story.

[Krillian]

To me fluency is when you start thinking on the language as well, just as naturally as you'd speak on your own.
For me it was quite a gradual learning curve, but I reckon it took less than most, taking that I started learning english from a fairly young age, and have been exposing myself to it everyday.
For me, learning a new language also has to do with exposing yourself to it, trying to not only understand, but also start noticing the nuances of the language itself, trying to get to its logic instead of adapting it to the way your language ticks. It's not an easy task, and it probably only worsens depending on wether or not your language is related.
For example, I'm Brazilian, and it was incredibly hard for me to wrap my head around english earlier in life because of how different the languages are, even if english has quite a few cognates with romance languages, but the nature of english (being a highly analytical language) was certainly an early hurdle I had to overcome.

[Auxivele]

Jumping into this old thread:

I would only consider myself fluent in English, but I would probably consider myself fluent when I could use a language comfortably and understand the vast majority of speech/writing that I encounter. I wouldn't necessarily say I need the same level of comfort or ability that I have in English, but that's partly because my career path has some very specialized vocabulary that would be quite difficult for me to explain in a foreign language no matter how long I've been studying it. It's already hard enough for me to explain in English

My goal for a while with Spanish was fluency, but considering I rarely actually used it outside of class, that was a bit of a pipe dream. One of these days I would like to live in a Spanish-speaking country for a time, at least so that I can get more practice in and stop forgetting everything I spent 7 or so years learning.

With Japanese, I'm not necessarily trying to become fluent. While I would love to, and I'm making far more of an effort to use Japanese than I made with Spanish, unless I live in Japan long-term, I don't think I will ever become fluent. And even then, it isn't a sure thing. Fluency is so much easier when your languages are more similar, but for now I want to be conversational and able to work in Japan if I so choose (for those who know JLPT levels, I'm currently studying for the N2).

[viola]

So clearly I have a language problem because I've started ASL 

I'm curious is there anyone here who knows ASL?

If I suddenly disappear it's because they found me and I've been sent back to language addiction rehab >_>