Author Topic: the fate of SSSS  (Read 4453 times)

tyfasi

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the fate of SSSS
« on: January 11, 2022, 02:39:47 PM »
I am a chronic lurker so this is the first time I've made a fan forum account so bear with me. I've followed Minna's work since the mid 2000's and now that SSSS is ending and Minna has torn down her main website in favor of advertising the bunny comic and sending people to the subscriber page I have a concern. I've known Minna to essentially delete her previous work once she starts a new project, with the exception of A Redtails Dream. I actually found her work on deviantart via a delightful sci-fi fantasy that starred an anthro fox person and a robot griffin. At least I think that's what it was about since has been more than a decade since I saw a single panel as Minna deleted the entire comic. I think there was one more comic she worked on before Redtail and that one is also lost to time.
With City of Hunger getting purged, and Minna distancing herself from both SSSS and ARTD with her main website not mentioning these at all I'm genuinely concerned both these comics are in danger of being deleted.
I don't know what Hiveworks terms are when it comes to publishing so I'm hoping some agreement will keep Minna from deleting her old stuff like she has in the past, but I just don't know. What do you guys think? I know there is a kickstarter for a book coming up but what about after that? Am I worried about nothing? I hope I'm over reacting

Jitter

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 03:12:41 PM »
Hello tyfasi and welcome to the Forum!

As you will notice when you take a look around, we have a couple of related discussions on other threads, so you may find interesting things to comment on! In addition, of course, to the wealth of other content, SSSS related and not, that we have around. We also have an Introduction Threas (in the General board), come and say hi there! It’s not required! Jus fun  :reynir:

As for your concern, we don’t really know what the deal is with Hiveworks, but I think it’s safe at least for the time being. Minna has even mentioned there having been talk about printing Adventure 2 as well. While I don’t personally think it will be financially viable with the comic ending, it does indicate there is a plan to keep the title and the site alive in the future too.

In any case SSSS has been printed and sold to numerous readers, so it’s impossible to remove it from the world altogether, even if she at some point wanted to. While some other people having the books is hardly a consolation for a fan who doesn’t, I think it makes is a lot less likely for anyone to even consider removing the site.

I haven’t seen the works you are referring to, but there has been some talk about them in Minna’s twitch stream at some point. They were done when she was still a teenager, and I got the impression she didn’t like the amateur quality (bear in mind the the creator of a work is often its strictest critic). Now SSSS has been produced as he full time job of many many years, and I’m sure it’s also important for her as such.

To summarize, I don’t think it likely that she would be taking it down, and I assume also Hiveworks has something to say in the matter.

The City of Hunger development blog hasn’t been completely removed either, just the link to it has been taken down. I don’t have the address at hand, but it’s around here somewhere. Probably in the thread titled The Great Purge. Still, it’s unfortunate she dropped it, it looked interesting.
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thorny

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 06:11:24 PM »
I think tyfasi has a legitimate concern, though. Keeping websites up costs something, no? And while apparently Minna's current religious beliefs don't require her to abjure SSSS as espousing witchcraft, or something of the sort, it's hard to tell where her current path may take her.

Probably not a great deal we can do about it, though, other than to hope Minna does decide to keep it up. I mean, individuals could go through and save the pages, one by one; but passing them around to anybody else would presumably violate copyright, not to mention the living artist's right to control their own work; which unfortunately pretty much has to include their right to destroy it. As you say, Adventure One at least exists in hard copy; though that doesn't necessarily make it easily accessible to anybody who hasn't already got it.

ScrimmyBingusPSVitaPort

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 08:47:06 PM »
I wonder how much of SSSS is readable through archive.org's wayback machine?

thorny

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2022, 10:05:40 PM »
When snopes decided not to have a message board anymore, the entire archive, many years' worth of posts, disappeared -- including that it was made inaccessible to the Wayback Machine.

Again -- Minna may well keep the comic pages available. Or Hiveworks may do so. I'm just saying, there are no guarantees.

Kiran

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 09:43:05 AM »
In that case, we could have a backup of the comic hosted on the fandom, provided Minna gives us consent, because of the copyright thing.


We could consider this option, should the worst case scenario seem imminent.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 09:45:04 AM by Kiran »
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thorny

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 01:05:26 PM »
We should consider it, in case she stops hosting it for financial reasons.

If she decides to abjure it for religious reasons, however, I very much doubt that she'd give us permission.

tyfasi

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2022, 02:22:58 PM »
Thanks Jitter for being a voice of reason, you're right logistically it's extremely unlikely for the comic to disappear any time soon. I suppose I have been burned by content getting purged one too many times in the past lol
And hopefully, even if the physical books of Adventure 2 are not released I'll bet they will be available in the SSSS store as ebooks or pdf's. So maybe there's the safety net there in the unlikely scenario the web version does get taken down.

Jitter

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 02:55:41 PM »
Still, it would be very bad to lose all the Disqus comments. I very much hope it won’t go down! Although of course everything ends, sooner or later.

I think I have read someone mention they are saving all of the pages with all of the comments, one by one. But I have no idea who it may have been, or if I imagined it completely.
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wavewright62

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2022, 05:33:57 PM »
As part of each SSSS book's Kickstarter, e-books/pdfs have been released.  But, they don't get offered beforehand.
I missed the ARtD KS, but was able to purchase the pdf after the fact.  But the e-book doesn't get assembled and offered for sale until the pages for physical publication (including her bonus content) are ready.  Fortunately, Minna has been in the game long enough that she formats the comic pages as print-ready as she goes and has minimal tech prep.
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Buteo

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2022, 06:50:17 PM »
I don't recall whether I posted on the forum about this or not, but I have been intermittently going through SSSS page by page and collecting the comments.
This is a slow process; I don't really know what I'm doing, so I have to deal with formatting problems as I go along.
Life stuff has interrupted this project recently, but it sounds as though I should get back to it. It would be a grim loss if all those stimulating exchanges in the commentariat were to be lost.

Sherval

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2022, 08:32:37 PM »
A fellow reader who found Minna's comics years before aRTD and yet is still around reading SSSS to this day? You're a rare breed indeed!

I'd hazard a guess that the robo griffin comic you mentioned is something Minna used to publish in "Umbren metsä", along with her other comics and artworks. That is, before she took the whole place down prior to moving onto aRTD. I honestly don't remember that griffin comic personally, only the comics that came before it. Or rather, SOME of them. I sure as heck didn't remember this one either, though I might've read it years ago: https://e621.net/pools/2686. That comic is written in Finnish, but there seem to be translations available if you hover your cursor over the text boxes.

I found that link a while ago by googling "Minna Sundberg" and "furry comic", came across some fireden forum (didn't bother reading through all the messages tho) and just went for the link someone had posted over there. With some luck, you might find other hidden stashes like that somewhere, perhaps even the very comic that introduced you to her work.

The comic I first read from Minna definitely predated "Pahistenlistijät" at least a year or two, featuring way smudgier art style. It featured similar anthro characters with big ears and long tails. The only character that I remember from it anymore was a female character called "Penta", who was more or less the straight (wo)man in a group of idiots, looking for some random McGuffin. Minna started that comic once, rebooted it later with better art and ultimately abandoned them both unfinished, all the while she would publish shorter comics and fantasy/antho art alongside them. Then came the great purge for the Umbren metsä in its entirety. After that, I was quite doubtful that Minna would have the perseverance to get through her "next big project" that she'd announced, which eventually became aRTD. But from then on, she has remained dedicated and steady with her work. With all this in mind (+ how countless other web comics have been left unfinished), SSSS is very lucky indeed to have a proper finale at all, no matter how rushed the pacing has become.

But yeah, Minna deleting her old works is something she's done for years now, all the way from the 2000s. I guess she eventually grew out of her anthro/fantasy art phase, which could partially explain her deleting her original website. To some extent, I can understand this from an artist's perspective. And even from the perspective of a young adult ashamed of their "cringy" teenage-phase, be it furry, anime, goth, emo, or whatever that no longer appeals to you as an adult, and you want to distance yourself from.

It's still a shame though, just how much stuff she has deleted from deviantart alone. Including a work she drew solely with her non-dominant hand, because of carpal tunnel or something, and to see how well and fast she could work like that. It even got a daily deviation award. Sure, she has other daily deviations, but had it been me I wouldn't have removed such an interesting memory from my gallery. Oh well, she probably still has the original work somewhere (at least I hope so), just not available in public.

All in all, I doubt Minna is going to destroy SSSS. It's what she's made as a professional web comic artist, as an adult. It's what really got her this far and I sincerely doubt she'd feel similarly embarassed over it compared to her "furry phase" from her teenage years. Of course, her becoming a devout born-again Christian IS something that could, theoretically, cause her to "start from a clean slate" once more.... But again, I seriously doubt that's going to happen. SSSS is, after all, still going the get new readers even years from now on. And therefore, from Minna's prespective, it would be wise to leave such a well known comic as a "gateway" to her newer Christian comics.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 08:44:39 PM by Sherval »
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tyfasi

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2022, 10:42:54 PM »
Well shut my mouth and call me cornpone, another person from early deviantart! Sherval I do believe we are on the same page, that being people with new philosophies are often wont to uh distance themselves from their previous opinions, but that SSSS is going to be Minna's money maker for a while now. Still, as someone who works in archives (and this being the reason I first loved SSSS themes of preserving old texts) we should always assume that hard copies will last much much longer than anything web-based
On a lighter note, I believe the comic with the robot griffin and the fox anthro might have been called Nightfallen, if ancient updates from webcomic wikis are to be trusted. And I will be honest, after I left deviantart and Minna changed her username from Shadowumbre to her actual name I didn't manage to find her work again until midway through ARTD so I'm sure there's loads I missed out on

yung_chrysanthemum

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Re: the fate of SSSS
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 01:46:51 AM »
I recently-ish wrote a script to scrape all of Oyvind Thorsby's comics in the event they go offline at some point. I need to store off the captions for each page but at least I have the content.

I'll probably eventually do the same for ARtD and SSSS. Maybe some weekend when I'm bored. Truthfully I wouldn't be interested in saving off anything other than the pages... saving off Disqus comments would likely be more complicated and require more storage space than I can dedicate. Anyway this would just be a personal archive in case the worst happens.

Best not to leave these things to chance. About 5 years ago now one of my favorite comic artists dropped off the face of the earth and his website went offline too. Archivists have the bulk of his work but there's a lot that we'll probably never see again. If I had a time travel machine going back and archiving everything would be my choice.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 01:50:30 AM by yung_chrysanthemum »
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